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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1451574 times)
deadace21
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January 24, 2014, 03:41:06 AM
 #41

Hey guys,

So if I can jump in here quickly to clear a question out of the air...

It seems that a main concern to many is that, upon the fundraiser/IPO stage, investors can put forth X amount of BTC for 2000 ether(or less as the days progress)... This simply amounts to investing within a company/idea at the early stages, giving the capital needed to produce a product/good/service.

Once this product is created, the worry seems to be that there will be a 50% devaluation of ether, effectively ruining the "profit" of those who got in early.

However, isn't the point that, if true value is created within that time frame, that the 50% devaluation has no real affect, if say, interest in the new protocol/system, has risen exponentially? As in, an increase of the money supply will not affect prices, per se, if the productivity of the market at that time, outpaces the rate of inflation.

I think the idea of escrow services, contracts, reputation services, etc, is crucial, not only to money itself, but to how the internet and the future will be shaped. If Bitcoin was the "TCP/IP" of the internet, then Ethereum is the "HTML/UI Browser" of the internet, which is massive... however/whatever spawns from this innovation, will be where we are today, meaning those who are in the right place at the right time, will be very well off.

Profit is people. When individuals value a good/product/service/etc, they reward it with profit. The division of labor and all other Econ 101 factors come into play and I for one am a bit confused as to the nervousness of this devaluation and why it is viewed negatively.

Could someone help clear the air? Assuming I invest 5 BTC, therefore receiving 10,000 ether, what is the worst/best case scenario after the release?

Sorry for the tangent!
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January 24, 2014, 03:48:40 AM
 #42

  • The fundraiser will last two months and close at the end of March
  • Early investors for taking a great risk due to the uncertainty of investment will be rewarded by a bonus of 2*initial investment for the first week and then this bonus decays by 2 percent per day for the remainder of the fundraiser until it reaches a floor of the base exchange rate of 0.001 BTC per 1 Ether

Greetings Mr. Buterin,

I hope this project shows us much progress!  Smiley

BTW, Why not getting a wider period of time in order to raise more funds? Wouldn't anything near a 100 days or + be more appropiate?

What about:
Quote
early investors for taking a really HUGE risk due to the uncertainty would be rewarded by a bonus of 10*initial investment for the first week and then this bonus decays by 2 percent per day for the remainder of the fundraiser until it reaches a floor of the base exchange rate of 0.001 BTC per 1 Ether

Summary: More time = Higher fund raising = Higher risk/return ratio

I'm gonna keep a close eye on the development of this.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers!

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January 24, 2014, 04:22:10 AM
 #43

Hey, I don't really understand this, can someone explain it to me? Thanks a lot. It looks cool, but i'm not exactly sure what it is.

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January 24, 2014, 04:28:23 AM
 #44

This should be posted in Altcoin announcements

Interested though
grizmoblust
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January 24, 2014, 05:31:04 AM
 #45

Hey, I don't really understand this, can someone explain it to me? Thanks a lot. It looks cool, but i'm not exactly sure what it is.

Polycentric law.

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January 24, 2014, 07:45:24 AM
 #46

Trying to wait patiently to get my hands on these, can't wait to be able to help a community grow from the beginning.  I just found out about bitcoin when Cody Wilson posted the Dark Wallet on Defense Distributed's Youtube.
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January 24, 2014, 09:24:32 AM
 #47

Congratulations! I've read the white paper (twice) and I am beginning to understand about 25% of it! Whenever I hear about protocols that support building custom currencies, I get all giddy.

The feeling I had when I first learnt about the MasterCoins project, or ColoredCoins or OpenTransactions or NXT has just been magnified even more by seeing what Ethereum is about to bring to the table.

I will be keeping a close on this one.



What happens to these MasterCoins, ColoredCoins, OpenTransactions or NXT projects?

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January 24, 2014, 09:45:44 AM
 #48

So there's a lot to read before asking a *completely* educated question about Ethereum, but hopefully I'm not jumping the gun too much...

Because Ethereum has a Turing complete scripting language, you cannot necessarily know how many cycles a script will take to execute, but Ethereum charges a fee based on how many cycles (past 16) that it takes your script to execute, how are you handling that?
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January 24, 2014, 10:29:33 AM
 #49

Congratulations! I've read the white paper (twice) and I am beginning to understand about 25% of it! Whenever I hear about protocols that support building custom currencies, I get all giddy.

The feeling I had when I first learnt about the MasterCoins project, or ColoredCoins or OpenTransactions or NXT has just been magnified even more by seeing what Ethereum is about to bring to the table.

I will be keeping a close on this one.



What happens to these MasterCoins, ColoredCoins, OpenTransactions or NXT projects?

Only time will tell who succeeds in the end, maybe more than one eh? This is the first time since Bitcoin i have seen something really disrupting being introduced to the community. I have confidence Vitalik will see this to completion.
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January 24, 2014, 10:56:44 AM
 #50

Congratulations! I've read the white paper (twice) and I am beginning to understand about 25% of it! Whenever I hear about protocols that support building custom currencies, I get all giddy.

The feeling I had when I first learnt about the MasterCoins project, or ColoredCoins or OpenTransactions or NXT has just been magnified even more by seeing what Ethereum is about to bring to the table.

I will be keeping a close on this one.



What happens to these MasterCoins, ColoredCoins, OpenTransactions or NXT projects?

Only time will tell who succeeds in the end, maybe more than one eh? This is the first time since Bitcoin i have seen something really disrupting being introduced to the community. I have confidence Vitalik will see this to completion.

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Well shilled, sir.

Bitcointalk already allows trust ratings selling/buying, account trading etc.. Just make 100 shills and hype&bump the hell up your own threads.

FYI There's nothing but promises- In all the listed alt cryptos too. Basicly what happened is that the author got money and you got nothing.

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January 24, 2014, 12:35:03 PM
 #51

So there's a lot to read before asking a *completely* educated question about Ethereum, but hopefully I'm not jumping the gun too much...

Because Ethereum has a Turing complete scripting language, you cannot necessarily know how many cycles a script will take to execute, but Ethereum charges a fee based on how many cycles (past 16) that it takes your script to execute, how are you handling that?

If the contract doesn't have enough funds to fully feed it, my understanding is that it will cease execution. After all, if you're a miner, why would you do work for no fee?

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MsCollec
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January 24, 2014, 01:02:37 PM
 #52

Interesting but I'm not comfortable locking down my investment for 1-3 years. The uncertainty about the future of Cryptography currency is too high making long term commitment risky

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January 24, 2014, 01:10:29 PM
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I think there have to be some ground rules. Raising money through the cryptocurrency community really sets a precedent. IANAL, but promising a billion dollar marketcap is dangerous. if you're moving several million dollars around, governments will notice. the idea that you can just put a website with a "prospectus" and have "audits" is... interesting. I would doubt that any Canadian court would consider a case where a cryptocurrency / DAC owner tries to get his rights enforced. so there is no court which would hear such a case, therefore there is no concept of "law" here. any promises should be in the software itself. fundraising clearly does not follow such a protocol. also I would very much doubt that Canadian law allows for private IPOs/crowdfunding, certainly if those funds come from outside the country. for example the US has recently adopted a crowdfunding law, which AngelList uses. but it has many restrictions and applies only for US residents (obviously). the idea that you can just move ahead and ignore all laws is... interesting. I personally doubt its in the interest of the community, but if people would want to invest their money like this, I guess its for the market to decide.
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January 24, 2014, 01:11:56 PM
 #54

Some of you have said "but they get the bitcoins, and then they get a share of ether, too!" But you aren't reading their terms carefully enough--those bitcoins go to pay for development. They do not go into the pockets of the founders (other than inasmuch as they are paid salaries, as employees).

Who/what could stop them giving themselves a $20million annual salary for developing?

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January 24, 2014, 01:26:54 PM
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Some of you have said "but they get the bitcoins, and then they get a share of ether, too!" But you aren't reading their terms carefully enough--those bitcoins go to pay for development. They do not go into the pockets of the founders (other than inasmuch as they are paid salaries, as employees).

Who/what could stop them giving themselves a $20million annual salary for developing?



They want to change the world as we know it and earn $20,000 million?
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January 24, 2014, 01:38:44 PM
 #56

They want to change the world as we know it and earn $20,000 million?

First they want to earn $20mio.
Then they try to change the world.
If they fail, they still have $20mio consolation money.
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January 24, 2014, 01:47:48 PM
 #57

Quote
Who/what could stop them giving themselves a $20million annual salary for developing?

In theory, nothing. Like anything else in this world, it all comes down to trust. Do you think some of the most well-respected names in crypto are going to steal your money? Then don't invest. You could ask the same question about any real-world corporation...what's to stop them from stealing your investment and bailing? Sure, they might go to jail, but that didn't stop the execs at Enron...or WorldCom...or Tyco...

Quote
Interesting but I'm not comfortable locking down my investment for 1-3 years. The uncertainty about the future of Cryptography currency is too high making long term commitment risky.

According to the IPO information, only the FOUNDERS' investment will be locked down. Investors can sell any time they'd like, once the blockchain actually comes online.

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coinrevo
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January 24, 2014, 01:58:56 PM
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In theory, nothing. Like anything else in this world, it all comes down to trust. Do you think some of the most well-respected names in crypto are going to steal your money? Then don't invest. You could ask the same question about any real-world corporation...what's to stop them from stealing your investment and bailing? Sure, they might go to jail, but that didn't stop the execs at Enron...or WorldCom...or Tyco...

According to the IPO information, only the FOUNDERS' investment will be locked down. Investors can sell any time they'd like, once the blockchain actually comes online.

This is not at all the same as a Canadian stock market IPO. Canadian law does not apply at all here. Stock offerings are extremely complicated. You usually have to pay investment bankers millions to do them for you. In the US you have to fill forms like S-1. Then a price for the IPO is set, by the market. You can't just go out and sell stock at any price you seem fit. And then you have to follow US Gaap Accounting, find a top accounting firm to do audits. I don't know about Canadian law, but it is roughly the same for any developed nation. In the US you can sell stock Over the counter, but even then you have to be SEC registered (roughly 200-500k$ per year to maintain such a listing). Trust is very non-linear. usually you find out about people when things go against you. if a lot of money is on the line, they use every weapon at their disposal. anyone who calls these processes that are currently going on "transparent" is living in a bubble. regulatory risk is extremely high.
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January 24, 2014, 02:04:51 PM
 #59

Like anything else in this world, it all comes down to trust. Do you think some of the most well-respected names in crypto are going to steal your money? Then don't invest. You could ask the same question about any real-world corporation...what's to stop them from stealing your investment and bailing? Sure, they might go to jail, but that didn't stop the execs at Enron...or WorldCom...or Tyco...
I'm not accusing them of stealing.
They just cannot lose while all investors can.
If they succeed, maybe all involved parties win. If they fail, everybody - except the founders - loses. That's a pretty comfortable starting point for the founders. I don't know if it's the same with "real world" venture capital, but I guess "real world corporation" investors safeguard themselves somehow.
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January 24, 2014, 02:31:32 PM
 #60

I'm not accusing them of stealing.
They just cannot lose while all investors can.
If they succeed, maybe all involved parties win. If they fail, everybody - except the founders - loses.

OK, I see your point now. It may not be "fair," but I don't see why it would impact the success or failure of the company. Let's say they make millions if they fail...or hundreds of millions if the succeed. Maybe it's not fair, but the incentives are still there for them to do a good job.

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