Bitcoin Forum
November 23, 2017, 05:16:04 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 ... 804 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1699770 times)
td services
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448


black swan hunter


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 05:27:33 PM
 #381

Great project, lets wait for the actual IPO prospect and see exactly what is offered. But defiantly needed in some form!

The IPO prospectus?  Are you kidding me??  This is not a registered security and they have not filed the proper paperwork with SEC or any agency.  The prospectus will not be worth the ink on paper its printed on.  The prospectus they provide not be reviewed by the SEC, it will read like a marketing brochure.

You can take you SEC paperwork, roll it up, tape a string to the end of it, and use it as a tampon.
1511457364
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511457364

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511457364
Reply with quote  #2

1511457364
Report to moderator
If you want to be a moderator, report many posts with accuracy. You will be noticed.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1511457364
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511457364

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511457364
Reply with quote  #2

1511457364
Report to moderator
1511457364
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511457364

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511457364
Reply with quote  #2

1511457364
Report to moderator
td services
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448


black swan hunter


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 05:46:50 PM
 #382


They are NXTers. And low tier to boot.  They are followers; you can't expect them to question authority.
I for one thank you for wording my doubts.

30,000 BTC or 300 BTC, does not matter - there is no wrong question when you're asking other people's money.
but if you're dealing with 30,000 BTC, no stone should be left unturned within legal and contractual framework.

Actually, most Ether followers hate Nxt.  Nxt had an IPO of 21 BTC (1 BTC was from the founder).  The creator (BCNext) didn't allow anyone to invest more than 1BTC.  Most people were skeptical, called it a scam, so they didn't invest and he launched Nxt.  Then everyone screamed that the distribution was unfair and they didn't have enough time to invest.  Personally, I don't like large public IPO's for crypto's, it's lame, if it's POW, it should be launched for free and mined.  POS is tricky, because it has to be launched all at once, I don't think any POS will have a small IPO after Nxt.  Regardless, I'll avoid Ether, it's going to be killed by greed.
Vitalik hates NXT - nothing ever mentioned by him or his magazine about it. He pretends as if it non exists!
Go figure...
 Cheesy

When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement, but most people, including myself, thought it was January 3, 2014. The genesis block was not created yet. It is very clear to me that they did not want any further dilution of existing investment, though no one will admit this. If there was some technical reason for ending the pre-sale early without advance notice, they could have just said something to the effect of "We are closing the sale now, so if you want to send in your Bitcoin you need to do so within the next X hours." They did allow another coin in which was sent while I was waiting for an answer. A week later, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup over the presale price.

The presale of Ethereum, like that of Mastercoin, is very well defined with a clearly defined period of investment, and in the case of Ethereum, a clearly defined limit on total investment. NXT, on the other hand, was arbitrarily closed at the convenience of the founder with no advance warning, and not everyone who was interested was allowed to invest.

td services
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448


black swan hunter


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 05:50:50 PM
 #383

Great project, lets wait for the actual IPO prospect and see exactly what is offered. But defiantly needed in some form!
The IPO prospectus?  Are you kidding me??  This is not a registered security and they have not filed the proper paperwork with SEC or any agency.  The prospectus will not be worth the ink on paper its printed on.  The prospectus they provide not be reviewed by the SEC, it will read like a marketing brochure.

You can take you SEC paperwork, roll it up, tape a string to the end of it, and use it as a tampon.


ROFLMAO!   Grin    ...I can't believe you guys haven't ignored that fool yet...




He's too much fun to ignore. Besides, maybe he'll help reduce the dilution in Ethereum by scaring off a few people off.
CycleSurfer
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 05:55:01 PM
 #384

It could be Goldman Sachs plot trying to control the future of the crypto-currency world....



Ha ha!  Priceless....
td services
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448


black swan hunter


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 06:01:58 PM
 #385

When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement, but most people, including myself, thought it was January 3, 2014. The genesis block was not created yet. It is very clear to me that they did not want any further dilution of existing investment, though no one will admit this. If there was some technical reason for ending the pre-sale early without advance notice, they could have just said something to the effect of "We are closing the sale now, so if you want to send in your Bitcoin you need to do so within the next X hours." They did allow another coin in which was sent while I was waiting for an answer. A week later, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup over the presale price.

The presale of Ethereum, like that of Mastercoin, is very well defined with a clearly defined period of investment, and in the case of Ethereum, a clearly defined limit on total investment. NXT, on the other hand, was arbitrarily closed at the convenience of the founder with no advance warning, and not everyone who was interested was allowed to invest.

There you go again...  Huh  

You know very well that the ONLY reason you were not allowed to participate early is because the Genesis Block had been generated.

So... why do you keep going back as if it has not been explained to you?  Also, why do you keep throwing that 4762% figure around and not the actual rate of NXT/BTC 0.000001?

Genesis block was still under construction the next day according to posts in NXT thread. Indeterminate when it was started, but if the coin that went in while I was waiting for an answer was included, then mine could have been as well.

Again, the math: presale price = 21 BTC/1,000,000,000 NXT = 0.000000021
                       price when first offered in NXT sale thread = 1,000,000 NXT/BTC = .000001

                      .000001/.000000021 = 47.62 = 4762% increase in price
extee
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 171


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 06:10:06 PM
 #386


They are NXTers. And low tier to boot.  They are followers; you can't expect them to question authority.
I for one thank you for wording my doubts.

30,000 BTC or 300 BTC, does not matter - there is no wrong question when you're asking other people's money.
but if you're dealing with 30,000 BTC, no stone should be left unturned within legal and contractual framework.

Actually, most Ether followers hate Nxt.  Nxt had an IPO of 21 BTC (1 BTC was from the founder).  The creator (BCNext) didn't allow anyone to invest more than 1BTC.  Most people were skeptical, called it a scam, so they didn't invest and he launched Nxt.  Then everyone screamed that the distribution was unfair and they didn't have enough time to invest.  Personally, I don't like large public IPO's for crypto's, it's lame, if it's POW, it should be launched for free and mined.  POS is tricky, because it has to be launched all at once, I don't think any POS will have a small IPO after Nxt.  Regardless, I'll avoid Ether, it's going to be killed by greed.
Vitalik hates NXT - nothing ever mentioned by him or his magazine about it. He pretends as if it non exists!
Go figure...
 Cheesy

When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement,

Bcnext asked for 21 btc for the lot and he got the 21 btc and consequently closed the IPO. if he had carried on selling nxt coins even past the 21 btc goal he would have screwed the ones who had invested thinking the 21 btc would buy the whole pie. for example if someone had invested 1btc thinking he would get around 450k of nxt....selling nxt even past 21 btc it would have screwed that investor as his share would be much less than what he had agreed into.
having said that me too i prefer an IPO which is open from day A to day B , with no cap and and which gives everyone time. but that also means it's an investment where you don't actually know how much % of the total thing you are buying as it will all depend on how many invest etc.
CycleSurfer
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 06:18:59 PM
 #387

I'm a very procedural programmer, so I am having trouble wrapping my head around your contracts system because it seems to be very abstract.

Can you please explain in more detail (preferably with an example) of how to make a useful contract in more of a real world scenario? Since it obviously can't do anything useful inside the ethereum network without also communicating outside of the network?

If it snows more than 2 inches on thursday or Friday, buy two lift tickets for Saturday at the ski resort.

If my favorite sports team wins the wednesday game, buy 2 tickets in Section C rows 10-16 for the friday game.

If a samsung galaxy tab 2 is offered at ebay for < $x, buy it. 




It would definitely help if the Ethereum folks could present a real-life example of how this will work.  They are speaking too much in hypothetical and theoretical concepts.  As if trying to be-all and end-all in developing the platform/infrastructure/scripting/etc. for crypto-currency 2.0 when there hasn't been any proof-of-concept that can be shown off.  To me, all their pitches are in the ethereal world.

In the above examples, I think these are conditional orders and not contracts.  A contract is between two entities or people -- i.e. an agreement.  For example, a futures contract for soybeans/oil/gold/etc. traded on exchanges such as CME/CBOE is a standard contract that can be traded.  It's terms are known beforehand because they are standardized -- fixed amount per contract, fixed delivery amount, fixed periodic delivery date, etc.

I believe this is what they mean by contract.  And what they are trying to do is to remove the middle-men (e.g. CME, CBOE) with a decentralized approach.  But I'm not 100% sure because of they give no concrete examples -- i.e. in the intro video.

I suggest they crank out a proof-of-concept example/prototype or at least state the first application they want to implement once a good chunk of Ethereum is completed.  Much easier for folks to wrap their minds around a real example rather than via concepts that seem extremely difficult (in my mind) to integrate.

aaron-lebo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 06:28:56 PM
 #388

no demo, beta, product

There is a significant amount of code out there, they already are working on implementations in several languages.

https://github.com/ethereum

I don't know where Ethereum will go, but this is not just a whitepaper and it is not just vaporware.
anonuser777
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 06:38:01 PM
 #389

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.
TwinWinNerD
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512


CEO BitPanda.com


View Profile WWW
January 26, 2014, 07:52:13 PM
 #390

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

theomoplatapus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322



View Profile
January 26, 2014, 07:57:04 PM
 #391

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.
Wait, aren't miners the ones "printing" the money?  How is bitcoin mining different from Ethereum mining in that sense if the Ethereum inflation goes to the miners?

BitcoinForumator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 07:57:58 PM
 #392

Vitalik is a 19 y.o. child - IQ is irrelevant here, he can be gamed very easily...

Bill Gates founded Micro$oft at 20. Say what you will about Microsoft and its collusion with power structures... Investing on day 1 might have been a good  move,  had you had the opportunity to do so... Which of the frontrunners in this space...Etherium, Mastercoin, NXT, Invictus... which are currency, smart property solutions, and which are distributed OS?
I have invested in all of them and I will invest in Ethereum too, only difference is I know I invest to Google or Microsoft here...

No anarcho/will change the world illusions!

Klee, would you mind saying ratios of your investing into Mastercoin, NXT, BitShares and Ethereum?

I have no agenda behind this other than to get another perspective for my own investing.
pandaisftw
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 08:11:17 PM
 #393

Genesis block was still under construction the next day according to posts in NXT thread. Indeterminate when it was started, but if the coin that went in while I was waiting for an answer was included, then mine could have been as well.

Again, the math: presale price = 21 BTC/1,000,000,000 NXT = 0.000000021
                       price when first offered in NXT sale thread = 1,000,000 NXT/BTC = .000001

                      .000001/.000000021 = 47.62 = 4762% increase in price

If you bought right after the genesis block at 0.000001, it'd be worth 0.000085/0.000001 = 85 = 8500% increase in price.

So the initial stakeholders actually made most of their gains after the fundraiser... which meant that NXT was already released and anyone could buy in with less risk.

NXT: 13095091276527367030
anonuser777
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 08:21:15 PM
 #394

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Ok, thanks. Pretty important that this gets pointed out. Smiley
anonuser777
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 08:22:12 PM
 #395

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.
Wait, aren't miners the ones "printing" the money?  How is bitcoin mining different from Ethereum mining in that sense if the Ethereum inflation goes to the miners?

Bitcoin inflation (and Ethereum apparently) will eventually stop. Fiat money never does.
nexern
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 597



View Profile
January 26, 2014, 08:32:28 PM
 #396

I had a longer reply written up...but you know what it slowly became an angry post so I'll start simple...

I read your whitepaper, I've followed the news, I planned on investing...

So someone please explain to me, why a startup with no demo, beta, product, requires 30 million dollars (30000 btc) and 50% of the currency?

Its a currency, not a product, but sure...lets call it a product. Google didn't ask you for 30 million dollars and say you can only use our search engine 50% of the time or you only get every other result for your searches?

...30000 btc which can be ALOT more than 30 million dollars even by the time they launch (if we're following the overall trend) AND 50% of all coins owned?

Common people...

The money is for devs and the team?

Well this is my informal application....I'm a soft eng.... I'd like to become an insta millionaire please? even before we have a product.

Guys we're NOT doing this for the profit we just believe so much in what we're making. ( I hope I get hired)

it seems some people underestimate the project size and real goals ethereum is after for.
this is not a currency, looking at it as it if were, gives a wrong perpective what is going
on here. ethereum tries to built a global, decentralized financial grid layer, populated by
semi autonomous code-reactors, hibernating within the blockchain until wakeup and acting as
more or less maintenance free financial servants when feeded with the appropiate value.
and you wonder why some old school entities are more than interested in this tech?
the first mover, able to access a global finance api (boiled down to what it is) gains
huge profit margins. a 30m usd invest is nothing compared to those margins but this tech
raises some other important questions, besides the pure tech ones.

as a nxt deveopler i am working on a similar approach but with a focus on decentralized
applications and there is a good change nxt will run the first usefull prototype within
the blockchain in a couple of weeks. but as mentioned above, applications should serve
all users, not only entities with the biggest pocket, again leading into islands of
centralization within a dezentralized meta-structure. this makes no sense.

the concept for sure is very interesting. i don't intend to invest but watching
this tech attentive, because it is clear the way to go, at least from my pov.
SyRenity
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 09:05:49 PM
 #397

Bcnext asked for 21 btc for the lot and he got the 21 btc and consequently closed the IPO. if he had carried on selling nxt coins even past the 21 btc goal he would have screwed the ones who had invested thinking the 21 btc would buy the whole pie. for example if someone had invested 1btc thinking he would get around 450k of nxt....selling nxt even past 21 btc it would have screwed that investor as his share would be much less than what he had agreed into.

Care to show where exactly BCNext asked for 21 BTC? From what I see, the fundraiser was abruptly and unexpectedly cut in the middle, with interested investors left overboard, having to buy in later on much higher valuation (which contributed to explosive speculative growth).

After this case, I much support and prefer any public project with clear and well communicated deadlines.
Gunther
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 09:15:01 PM
 #398

*Following*.
admiral.fu
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 53


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 09:39:51 PM
 #399


They are NXTers. And low tier to boot.  They are followers; you can't expect them to question authority.
I for one thank you for wording my doubts.

30,000 BTC or 300 BTC, does not matter - there is no wrong question when you're asking other people's money.
but if you're dealing with 30,000 BTC, no stone should be left unturned within legal and contractual framework.

Actually, most Ether followers hate Nxt.  Nxt had an IPO of 21 BTC (1 BTC was from the founder).  The creator (BCNext) didn't allow anyone to invest more than 1BTC.  Most people were skeptical, called it a scam, so they didn't invest and he launched Nxt.  Then everyone screamed that the distribution was unfair and they didn't have enough time to invest.  Personally, I don't like large public IPO's for crypto's, it's lame, if it's POW, it should be launched for free and mined.  POS is tricky, because it has to be launched all at once, I don't think any POS will have a small IPO after Nxt.  Regardless, I'll avoid Ether, it's going to be killed by greed.
Vitalik hates NXT - nothing ever mentioned by him or his magazine about it. He pretends as if it non exists!
Go figure...
 Cheesy

When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement, but most people, including myself, thought it was January 3, 2014. The genesis block was not created yet. It is very clear to me that they did not want any further dilution of existing investment, though no one will admit this. If there was some technical reason for ending the pre-sale early without advance notice, they could have just said something to the effect of "We are closing the sale now, so if you want to send in your Bitcoin you need to do so within the next X hours." They did allow another coin in which was sent while I was waiting for an answer. A week later, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup over the presale price.

The presale of Ethereum, like that of Mastercoin, is very well defined with a clearly defined period of investment, and in the case of Ethereum, a clearly defined limit on total investment. NXT, on the other hand, was arbitrarily closed at the convenience of the founder with no advance warning, and not everyone who was interested was allowed to invest.



I think the situation with Ethereum the same. IPO could end next day, 2nd of Feb, if someone with IGS (incurable greed syndrome) invests 29500 BTC. So people many disappoint not get coin any...
TooDumbForBitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232


HERO: The Future of Banking in Southeast Asia


View Profile
January 26, 2014, 09:45:23 PM
 #400

Question for the founders:

What will Matthew N. Wright's involvement in Ethereum be?

▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████  ██████████████
██████  ██████████████
██████  ██████████████
██████  ██      ██████
██████  █  ████  █████
██████   ██████  █████
██████  ███████  █████
██████  ███████  █████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
  HERO 
...                                                                                                   ...
                The Future of Banking in Southeast Asia                   
           ■ Website   ■ Whitepaper   ■ Bounties   ■ Join Telegram         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
      PRE-SALE       
      starting 20 Nov       
                                                                                                                                           
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 ... 804 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!