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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1584818 times)
gutshot5820
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January 25, 2014, 08:15:28 PM
 #241

You talk about US laws. But US highest laws this is constitution states that presidential candidate must be American also that issuing of legal currency can be done only by country not by private company like FED, that national currency should be backed by value and not created from thin air and that country can go on war only with congress permision.
So how can you talk about need to obey laws by common citizens while there in USA even constitution is violated on daily basis LOL There even isn't any legal president there... when law isn't obeyed on higher level than it is a joke not a law.

Is that your argument? "sigh" I'm not denying  there are things that USA does that could be viewed in a negative light.  What am I doing here?  Im just trying to shine a light on what is happening here specifically with Ethereum  There should be open discussion as to whether they are following proper procedures and regulations for an"IPO" of this size.  You may feel secure now, but there have been millions of people that have been scammed and misled by companies trying to cash in with minimum transparency.  There should be robust discussion on the merits of every single individual involved with this coin.  At minimum you should be asking for the type of documents US law requires for a one million dollar crowdfunding. Business plan, list of all the parties with controlling interest, their role, background, how much they are getting paid and for what type of work, market competition, risk factors, etc..This is a request for 36 milion, NOT a few thousand.  Any company that has the nerve to ask a bunch of strangers to invest 36 million should have theirs financials in order, provide a insurance that they are on compliance with all laws, etc..The fact that people can blindly and willingly defend the practice of requesting millions of dollars without any extensive due diligence or paperwork is mind-boggling at best.
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January 25, 2014, 08:20:24 PM
 #242

wow ... I was excited at first, but too many red flags for me.

To me it just seems Ethereum is some glorified software platform, with all these promises
and ideas on how it can be used, smart property, replace ICANN, file storage, 'thousands of applications' etc... but the catch seems they want you to develop that on their platform with fees of course, sounds like a bank's business model ironically.

Im sure the founders are genius programmers, no doubt.  But it doesnt warrant the hype and initial investment in my opinion.

50% premine  Shocked ... dont try to hide it with algebra .5X just say 50%

Name dropping Goldman Sachs ... wow, cryptos have come a long way!

I'll sit this round out, good luck everybody!


NEM   NanoWallet   SuperNodes   Apostille   Landstead   Catapult   Mijin
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January 25, 2014, 08:46:58 PM
 #243

You talk about US laws. But US highest laws this is constitution states that presidential candidate must be American also that issuing of legal currency can be done only by country not by private company like FED, that national currency should be backed by value and not created from thin air and that country can go on war only with congress permision.
So how can you talk about need to obey laws by common citizens while there in USA even constitution is violated on daily basis LOL There even isn't any legal president there... when law isn't obeyed on higher level than it is a joke not a law.

Is that your argument? "sigh" I'm not denying  there are things that USA does that could be viewed in a negative light.  What am I doing here?  Im just trying to shine a light on what is happening here specifically with Ethereum  There should be open discussion as to whether they are following proper procedures and regulations for an"IPO" of this size.  You may feel secure now, but there have been millions of people that have been scammed and misled by companies trying to cash in with minimum transparency.  There should be robust discussion on the merits of every single individual involved with this coin.  At minimum you should be asking for the type of documents US law requires for a one million dollar crowdfunding. Business plan, list of all the parties with controlling interest, their role, background, how much they are getting paid and for what type of work, market competition, risk factors, etc..This is a request for 36 milion, NOT a few thousand.  Any company that has the nerve to ask a bunch of strangers to invest 36 million should have theirs financials in order, provide a insurance that they are on compliance with all laws, etc..The fact that people can blindly and willingly defend the practice of requesting millions of dollars without any extensive due diligence or paperwork is mind-boggling at best.
God gave them free will and brains. If they are confortable taking this risk then it's their independent decission with all consequences also losses are natural part of risk they take. No third part has anything to do with their suvereign decissions and their own money they put on stake. Also people learn on mistakes so let them learn because it is their right too. But you are free to advice them too and show the risk but in the end they need to use their own heads. As for creators i would on their place look for possibilities in other countries... since even if internet is free place yet servers and their pc's placement not neceserily Wink But if they gather bitcoins isn't it different than us dollars? Is it already a legal currency in USA ?
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January 25, 2014, 08:48:39 PM
 #244









The ETH team

Invest in your knowledge, not other people's hookers.
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January 25, 2014, 08:50:36 PM
 #245

I have to say I'm disgusted by this so called Ethereum fundraiser, i know they will make a lot of money simply because of the crypto currency craze. I don't doubt the technology but i think it is wrong to exploit people this way, i know for a fact this money will be used so that this small group of people buy homes, cars, and secure their financial future. On top of the fundraiser they want to own 50% of Ethereum, plus they want ongoing salary. Really this is disgusting.

If these people had ethics they would've capped the investment so that it covers their expenses and a little bit more, but they just want to become millionaires overnight. I bet you they are so excited about this because they know just how rich they are about to become.

I mean look at the idiots giving 100's of BTC to the daily IPO scams that go on here, everyday someone makes a IPO posts, ppl give them BTC one week later they run away.  i'm not saying Ethereum is a scam, it is definitely real but just goes to show how much of a craze crypto is.

it is also sad that the people making these projects are just pure greedy, rather than actually wanting to create real change and revolution like Satoshi did.

Unfortunately there is a whole lot of truth in this post.

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January 25, 2014, 08:54:09 PM
 #246

Let me put this simply, if it was your 36 million they were asking from you, would you just hand it over to them based on a youtube video and message board on Bitcointalk?  Hell no, nobody would and if you did even consider it you would hire a consulting company to go through every individual , financials,business plan with a fine tooth comb.  And then you would probably pass anyways.

What I ask you is this, why should you expect less from the entire Bitcoin community? Is it because you are only planning to invest a hundred dollars and who cares if I lose that?  You should care because an investment of this size sets a precedent.  Original Bitcoin had no pre-sell, no pre-mine it was truly a revolution and changed the world.  You went from no pre-mine to a small pre-mine but no pre-sell,, then you wen to small pre-mine and small pre-sell, then small pre-sell and large pre-mine.  Now these guys are going for the homerun, huge pre-sell and huge pre-mine.  

We have been conditioned slowly and surely to accept larger penalties bit by bit and now they just expect us to roll over and hand them money to become millionaires before they even launch,  Thats seriously fuked up.  Bitcoin was meant to be free and these guys are just making slightly different versions of it to capitalize on making money.  Which is fine UNTIL you flat out ask for 36 million in capital.  That is where you have to draw the line and I believe they cross boundaries from having people mine coins and trade them on an exchange to a full blown attempt at monetizing from the bitcoin hype.  But here is where they cross the line with the government and SEC...they are now entering a whole new ballgame and trying to pass it on as just another coin.

NOT.  When you start asking for 36 million up front, thats not a coin anymore, you have to register with the proper agencies in all the countries you do business with.  If you are going to make 36 million without even launching there HAS to be due diligence and proper procedures to prevent fraud.
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January 25, 2014, 08:58:57 PM
 #247

This thread has totally derailed. Hopefully there is some moderation because it's getting drowned out by FUD and opinions that contribute nothing constructive. It's a shame people's hard work gets this reception. If the future of cryptocurrency is in the hands of most of the people who have posted here, we're screwed.

gutshot5820
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January 25, 2014, 09:01:19 PM
 #248

You talk about US laws. But US highest laws this is constitution states that presidential candidate must be American also that issuing of legal currency can be done only by country not by private company like FED, that national currency should be backed by value and not created from thin air and that country can go on war only with congress permision.
So how can you talk about need to obey laws by common citizens while there in USA even constitution is violated on daily basis LOL There even isn't any legal president there... when law isn't obeyed on higher level than it is a joke not a law.

Is that your argument? "sigh" I'm not denying  there are things that USA does that could be viewed in a negative light.  What am I doing here?  Im just trying to shine a light on what is happening here specifically with Ethereum  There should be open discussion as to whether they are following proper procedures and regulations for an"IPO" of this size.  You may feel secure now, but there have been millions of people that have been scammed and misled by companies trying to cash in with minimum transparency.  There should be robust discussion on the merits of every single individual involved with this coin.  At minimum you should be asking for the type of documents US law requires for a one million dollar crowdfunding. Business plan, list of all the parties with controlling interest, their role, background, how much they are getting paid and for what type of work, market competition, risk factors, etc..This is a request for 36 milion, NOT a few thousand.  Any company that has the nerve to ask a bunch of strangers to invest 36 million should have theirs financials in order, provide a insurance that they are on compliance with all laws, etc..The fact that people can blindly and willingly defend the practice of requesting millions of dollars without any extensive due diligence or paperwork is mind-boggling at best.
God gave them free will and brains. If they are confortable taking this risk then it's their independent decission with all consequences also losses are natural part of risk they take. No third part has anything to do with their suvereign decissions and their own money they put on stake. Also people learn on mistakes so let them learn because it is their right too. But you are free to advice them too and show the risk but in the end they need to use their own heads. As for creators i would on their place look for possibilities in other countries... since even if internet is free place yet servers and their pc's placement not neceserily Wink But if they gather bitcoins isn't it different than us dollars? Is it already a legal currency in USA ?

No, you are 100% percent entirely wrong on this matter.  Just because this is a free market does not give an entity the right to raise 36 million without any transparency.  Your type of thinking allowed millions of regular people, seniors who know nothing about financing get scammed into buying or investing in crap and basically get scammed.  Free market is great as long as there is COMPLETE transparency for people to make up their own mind.  When transparency is hidden or avoided, it allows people a free rein to manipulate and use you.  So yeah free market and freedom of choice is great, as long as we know wtf we are buying,  You want to give these guys 36 million dollars based on a youtube ad and 2 for 1 sale? Yea right you would never do it, you are only saying this because ts not your money so you could give a shit.  Let people blow their money if they want, but with full disclosure and transparency, why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
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January 25, 2014, 09:01:47 PM
 #249

Let me put this simply, if it was your 36 million they were asking from you, would you just hand it over to them based on a youtube video and message board on Bitcointalk?  Hell no, nobody would and if you did even consider it you would hire a consulting company to go through every individual , financials,business plan with a fine tooth comb.  And then you would probably pass anyways.

What I ask you is this, why should you expect less from the entire Bitcoin community? Is it because you are only planning to invest a hundred dollars and who cares if I lose that?  You should care because an investment of this size sets a precedent.  Original Bitcoin had no pre-sell, no pre-mine it was truly a revolution and changed the world.  You went from no pre-mine to a small pre-mine but no pre-sell,, then you wen to small pre-mine and small pre-sell, then small pre-sell and large pre-mine.  Now these guys are going for the homerun, huge pre-sell and huge pre-mine.  

We have been conditioned slowly and surely to accept larger penalties bit by bit and now they just expect us to roll over and hand them money to become millionaires before they even launch,  Thats seriously fuked up.  Bitcoin was meant to be free and these guys are just making slightly different versions of it to capitalize on making money.  Which is fine UNTIL you flat out ask for 36 million in capital.  That is where you have to draw the line and I believe they cross boundaries from having people mine coins and trade them on an exchange to a full blown attempt at monetizing from the bitcoin hype.  But here is where they cross the line with the government and SEC...they are now entering a whole new ballgame and trying to pass it on as just another coin.

NOT.  When you start asking for 36 million up front, thats not a coin anymore, you have to register with the proper agencies in all the countries you do business with.  If you are going to make 36 million without even launching there HAS to be due diligence and proper procedures to prevent fraud.

I certainly see your point. But I must respectfully ask if you reported the NXT and MasterCoin and BitShares founders to the SEC/US Attorney? Didn't all of them ask for money up front, in exchange for "coins" later? What's the difference, other than the amount of money that's being raised? (Which is $24 million and not $36 million as you say. Why should we trust your judgement when you can't even get the math right?)

Dash - Digital Cash
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gambitx
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January 25, 2014, 09:03:43 PM
 #250

You talk about US laws. But US highest laws this is constitution states that presidential candidate must be American also that issuing of legal currency can be done only by country not by private company like FED, that national currency should be backed by value and not created from thin air and that country can go on war only with congress permision.
So how can you talk about need to obey laws by common citizens while there in USA even constitution is violated on daily basis LOL There even isn't any legal president there... when law isn't obeyed on higher level than it is a joke not a law.

Is that your argument? "sigh" I'm not denying  there are things that USA does that could be viewed in a negative light.  What am I doing here?  Im just trying to shine a light on what is happening here specifically with Ethereum  There should be open discussion as to whether they are following proper procedures and regulations for an"IPO" of this size.  You may feel secure now, but there have been millions of people that have been scammed and misled by companies trying to cash in with minimum transparency.  There should be robust discussion on the merits of every single individual involved with this coin.  At minimum you should be asking for the type of documents US law requires for a one million dollar crowdfunding. Business plan, list of all the parties with controlling interest, their role, background, how much they are getting paid and for what type of work, market competition, risk factors, etc..This is a request for 36 milion, NOT a few thousand.  Any company that has the nerve to ask a bunch of strangers to invest 36 million should have theirs financials in order, provide a insurance that they are on compliance with all laws, etc..The fact that people can blindly and willingly defend the practice of requesting millions of dollars without any extensive due diligence or paperwork is mind-boggling at best.
God gave them free will and brains. If they are confortable taking this risk then it's their independent decission with all consequences also losses are natural part of risk they take. No third part has anything to do with their suvereign decissions and their own money they put on stake. Also people learn on mistakes so let them learn because it is their right too. But you are free to advice them too and show the risk but in the end they need to use their own heads. As for creators i would on their place look for possibilities in other countries... since even if internet is free place yet servers and their pc's placement not neceserily Wink But if they gather bitcoins isn't it different than us dollars? Is it already a legal currency in USA ?

No, you are 100% percent entirely wrong on this matter.  Just because this is a free market does not give an entity the right to raise 36 million without any transparency.  Your type of thinking allowed millions of regular people, seniors who know nothing about financing get scammed into buying or investing in crap and basically get scammed.  Free market is great as long as there is COMPLETE transparency for people to make up their own mind.  When transparency is hidden or avoided, it allows people a free rein to manipulate and use you.  So yeah free market and freedom of choice is great, as long as we know wtf we are buying,  You want to give these guys 36 million dollars based on a youtube ad and 2 for 1 sale? Yea right you would never do it, you are only saying this because ts not your money so you could give a shit.  Let people blow their money if they want, but with full disclosure and transparency, why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

i hope u succeed in shutting this down
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January 25, 2014, 09:10:22 PM
 #251

Just click the Ignore button and/or STOP quoting them fools!   Wink

You're right. I feel like an idiot for trying to reason with people. The Bitcointalk community is turning into a joke. The sooner serious projects move away from here the better if this is the treatment they get.

gutshot5820
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January 25, 2014, 09:12:42 PM
 #252

Let me put this simply, if it was your 36 million they were asking from you, would you just hand it over to them based on a youtube video and message board on Bitcointalk?  Hell no, nobody would and if you did even consider it you would hire a consulting company to go through every individual , financials,business plan with a fine tooth comb.  And then you would probably pass anyways.

What I ask you is this, why should you expect less from the entire Bitcoin community? Is it because you are only planning to invest a hundred dollars and who cares if I lose that?  You should care because an investment of this size sets a precedent.  Original Bitcoin had no pre-sell, no pre-mine it was truly a revolution and changed the world.  You went from no pre-mine to a small pre-mine but no pre-sell,, then you wen to small pre-mine and small pre-sell, then small pre-sell and large pre-mine.  Now these guys are going for the homerun, huge pre-sell and huge pre-mine.  

We have been conditioned slowly and surely to accept larger penalties bit by bit and now they just expect us to roll over and hand them money to become millionaires before they even launch,  Thats seriously fuked up.  Bitcoin was meant to be free and these guys are just making slightly different versions of it to capitalize on making money.  Which is fine UNTIL you flat out ask for 36 million in capital.  That is where you have to draw the line and I believe they cross boundaries from having people mine coins and trade them on an exchange to a full blown attempt at monetizing from the bitcoin hype.  But here is where they cross the line with the government and SEC...they are now entering a whole new ballgame and trying to pass it on as just another coin.

NOT.  When you start asking for 36 million up front, thats not a coin anymore, you have to register with the proper agencies in all the countries you do business with.  If you are going to make 36 million without even launching there HAS to be due diligence and proper procedures to prevent fraud.

I certainly see your point. But I must respectfully ask if you reported the NXT and MasterCoin and BitShares founders to the SEC/US Attorney? Didn't all of them ask for money up front, in exchange for "coins" later? What's the difference, other than the amount of money that's being raised? (Which is $24 million and not $36 million as you say. Why should we trust your judgement when you can't even get the math right?)

Im not sure tbh, Im focused on this coin right now and have no interest in saving the entire world.  But there is a difference between asking for small cash outlay for marketing, start-up etc..a million or two with a large team of devs, maybe you can understand but when you start talking about 36 million you are talking huge start-up capital.  The  difference between small claims court and federal court.  Believe me, the government agencies look at the size of these fake IPO's differently by dollar amounts.  This is in a category of its own.
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January 25, 2014, 09:15:16 PM
 #253

Just click the Ignore button and/or STOP quoting them fools!   Wink

You're right. I feel like an idiot for trying to reason with people. The Bitcointalk community is turning into a joke. The sooner serious projects move away from here the better if this is the treatment they get.

You two keep hamming it away with each other, Personally I think both of you are a complete joke.  Anybody who hassles people for questioning the legitimacy of requesting 36 million online from complete strangers is either getting paid as a shill by the company or has no sense of reality.

You have to be fuckin absolutey living in a bubble for hassling people that are questioning the legality of a totally strange entity asking strangers on the internet based off a youtube ad to invest up to 36 million.  Why dont you sell your home and car and give them all of your own money before asking the bitcoin community to give them 36 million upfront with no risk.  LMAO you are classic, you must think everyone on here is dumb that questions their motives.  I think its the exact opposite.
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January 25, 2014, 09:45:22 PM
 #254

You two keep hamming it away with each other, Personally I think both of you are a complete joke.  Anybody who hassles people for questioning the legitimacy of requesting 36 million online from complete strangers is either getting paid as a shill by the company or has no sense of reality.

You have to be fuckin absolutey living in a bubble for hassling people that are questioning the legality of a totally strange entity asking strangers on the internet based off a youtube ad to invest up to 36 million.  Why dont you sell your home and car and give them all of your own money before asking the bitcoin community to give them 36 million upfront with no risk.  LMAO you are classic, you must think everyone on here is dumb that questions their motives.  I think its the exact opposite.

Please leave. There is no value in your existence.
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January 25, 2014, 09:53:27 PM
 #255

fundraiser + pre mine, however the aim is to give control to users? no coherence , I'm out.
Riding the wave?

Will be in on an alternative that invents the exact same things without asking pay me first.

Right... And who is going to fund the development and why will they share their bounty with you upon completion?
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January 25, 2014, 09:58:33 PM
 #256

You two keep hamming it away with each other, Personally I think both of you are a complete joke.  Anybody who hassles people for questioning the legitimacy of requesting 36 million online from complete strangers is either getting paid as a shill by the company or has no sense of reality.

You have to be fuckin absolutey living in a bubble for hassling people that are questioning the legality of a totally strange entity asking strangers on the internet based off a youtube ad to invest up to 36 million.  Why dont you sell your home and car and give them all of your own money before asking the bitcoin community to give them 36 million upfront with no risk.  LMAO you are classic, you must think everyone on here is dumb that questions their motives.  I think its the exact opposite.

Please leave. There is no value to your existence.
Why don't you leave?  What kind of idiot encourages people to invest millions based off a youtube ad?  What is the harm in demanding more transparency and compliance with regulations?  Do you buy a used car without checking the  the engine or if a guy tries to sell you a diamond on the street do you immediately pay him based on his looks?  I highly doubt it, even small investments you would take the time to check it out before you handed over a single dollar.  And here you are apparently advocating everyone in the bitcoin community to give these guys millions with zero transparency or insurance that they are in compliance with  laws. So if for some reason they disappear once the money is transferred what then?  You and everyone will start crying because you didn't realize what you were getting in to. ARe you going to guarantee everyone's money with your pitiful life savings?   Not going to happen to you right?  Sure when its not your fracking money what do you care?  But if you you were going to buy anything worth of any remote value you would make sure that you are not getting scammed.  In a public forum where your money is not at risk, now its ok to just plow million into this entity with absolutely no assurance of whats going on?  Hypocrite, lets see you do this type of business deal everyday in your business life.  You dont fukin care right now and talk shit because it wont be your money and if you do, it will be a small negligible amount.

Edit: read your previous posts, now it all makes sense.  You have a vested interest in this coin succeeding.  No wonder you made that comment.  Only a shill or someone with principal interest would damn someone for questioning why there isn't more transparency for an entity asking for 36 million from internet strangers.
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January 25, 2014, 10:09:36 PM
 #257

there is no issue with the fund raise. People are free to spend their money as they choose

also who said it occurs in us jurisdiction.


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January 25, 2014, 10:14:49 PM
 #258

Quote
Charles Hoskinson → Former CEO of Invictus Innovations and Director of the Bitcoin Education Project


Got booted from one scheme and started another.  And of course both are asking for money or BTC to get started.
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January 25, 2014, 10:15:53 PM
 #259

there is no issue with the fund raise. People are free to spend their money as they choose

also who said it occurs in us jurisdiction.



Not true, there are laws regarding transparency and compliance when people are trying to raise millions of dollars from strangers...in order to prevent fraud.  There will be similar laws in most countries and Canada if Im not mistaken is much tougher than US when it comes to crowdfundraising.

And why, who cares what jurisdiction they are in, if they are asking for 36 million from total strangers before they even open for business they should spend a few hundred thousand to provide assurances that they are in legal rights in each country they do business with and file all the necessary regulatory documents.  If they are not hiding anything or worried why would they care what jurisdiction they are in?
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January 25, 2014, 10:19:40 PM
 #260

sad when you have to turn to Reddit to get actual information about the project.
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