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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1450109 times)
novaboy2k
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January 31, 2014, 02:47:35 AM
 #981

How do i go about investing in the IPO?

Cannot find a link anywhere.

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January 31, 2014, 03:05:12 AM
 #982

How do i go about investing in the IPO?

Cannot find a link anywhere.
Send your money straight to the developers pocket.
novaboy2k
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January 31, 2014, 03:06:32 AM
 #983

How do i go about investing in the IPO?

Cannot find a link anywhere.
Send your money straight to the developers pocket.

I will, and then someone else will send me more money back to my wallet...

You got the link?

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January 31, 2014, 03:42:00 AM
 #984

Hi I'm somewhat new to all of these various cryptocurrencies, I got into bitcoin somewhat recently but I've been able to understand some of the basics. After reading through everything about Ethereum it seems like a great thing the only problem is that as a completely new person I dont really understand how to get involved. Is it mining just like with bitcoin? If it is or if it isnt, could some please try to break it down to as simple terms as possible, what to do and how to start up etc, so that I could start getting more involved in the world of cryptocurrency especially Ethereum, it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot by the way
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January 31, 2014, 03:55:59 AM
 #985

Oh crap, I have 52 pages to read in just a few days :\
What was the reference about? Are you hired/helping the group or thinking of investing?

turtoro
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January 31, 2014, 03:58:45 AM
 #986

Hi I'm somewhat new to all of these various cryptocurrencies, I got into bitcoin somewhat recently but I've been able to understand some of the basics. After reading through everything about Ethereum it seems like a great thing the only problem is that as a completely new person I dont really understand how to get involved. Is it mining just like with bitcoin? If it is or if it isnt, could some please try to break it down to as simple terms as possible, what to do and how to start up etc, so that I could start getting more involved in the world of cryptocurrency especially Ethereum, it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot by the way

you wont be able to mine it for a few months anyway. If you want to participate before that, youll have to participate in the upcoming ipo (send btc, get ether)
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January 31, 2014, 04:50:53 AM
 #987

Inflation keeps coming up, so I thought I would compare Bitcoin's model with Ethereum's. (Yes, Bitcoin has significant inflation, too).


Bitcoin's Historical Inflation Rate
(The following assumes 50 BTC block reward until Block 210000 with a block time of 10 minutes.)
Bitcoin in existence at end of:
Genesis - 0 BTC
Year 1 - 2.6 million
Year 2 - 5.2 million
Year 3 - 7.8 million
Year 4 - 10.4 million (Block reward halves in Nov 2012)
Year 5 - 11.7 million
Year 6 - 13 million
...and so on until 2016, when the reward will halve again.

Inflation:
Year 1: N/A...Year 2: 100%...Year 3: 50%...Year 4: 33%...Year 5: 12.5%...Year 6: 11%


Ethereum's Projected Inflation Rate
(The following assumes that X ether are created as a result of the IPO, that 0.5X are "premined" for founders and foundation, and that 0.4X are mined per year thereafter.)
Ether in existence at the end of:
Genesis: 1.5X
Year 1 = 1.9X
Year 2 = 2.3X
Year 3 = 2.7X
Year 4 = 3.1X
Year 5 = 3.5X
Year 6 = 3.9X

For an inflation rate of 26% in Year 1, 21% in Year 2, 17% in Year 3, 14% in Year 4, 12% in Year 5, and 11.4% in Year 6.

My personal opinion is that ether will see significant increases in value over time. Even though the supply of ether is increasing by a certain percentage each year, the demand for ether will likely increase even more rapidly.

Let's say you grow 5 apples in Year 1, and you have 5 customers. Each customer buys one apple for $1. Then suppose everyone really loves your apples--they are the best apples in the whole state. All your Year 1 customers tell their friends. Because of some improvements to your farm, you are able to produce 10 apples in Year 2. Now if you still only had those same 5 customers, you'd be in trouble. But you don't--now you have 15 customers, who all want an apples. So the price goes up to $2 per apple. Even though your supply increased (inflation) your demand increased faster.

With the incredible utility that Ethereum is offering...the ability to do any peer-to-peer exchange on the block chain without going through a "centralized" authority...I see a literally world-changing opportunity in the making. Perhaps I'm overoptimistic--you be the judge.

P.S. Some have rightly pointed out that though Bitcoin inflation was very high in the early years, coins were essentially worthless. So in terms of BTC there was huge inflation, but since there were very few actual dollars invested, the risk was obviously lower. After all, if I can buy 100 BTC for $1, even if the supply of BTC is going to double in the next year, who cares? The most I could lose is fifty cents.

Ethereum is different because it will start with a much higher market cap than Bitcoin (perhaps $24+ million, as opposed to Bitcoin's $0), and consequently any inflation is higher risk, not in terms of ether, but in terms of dollars.

Like everything else, it will all depend on supply and demand. All I know is that I'm looking forward to the ride!

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ThePatient
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January 31, 2014, 05:18:19 AM
 #988

The problem so far, though, is that there is no real reason to invest during the IPO (as opposed to waiting until mining and trading starts to buy ETH) unless you simply love involving yourself with extremely high-risk ventures. The current structure doesn't benefit early investors enough to make the investment worth the risk.
CoinHeavy
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January 31, 2014, 06:12:47 AM
 #989

Registration for PoolEthereum.com is now open. 

Alpha testers will qualify for rewards like a fee free mining window and priority support.

Cloud mining services will be available prior to launch.
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January 31, 2014, 06:22:15 AM
 #990

Registration for PoolEthereum.com is now open. 

Alpha testers will qualify for rewards like a fee free mining window and priority support.

Cloud mining services will be available prior to launch.

Care to provide more information? Your website has no information and asks for an e-mail address.

CoinHeavy
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January 31, 2014, 06:54:47 AM
 #991

Sure thing.  We plan to have testnet mining set up by the end of next week so that folks can begin verifying their mining systems.  Tutorials on compiling and running mining clients for all major operating systems will be provided.  Pool fees will be minimal to cover operations and are expected to be on the order of 1%.

Fully managed mining nodes will be available for monthly subscription.

Feel free to sign up on the mailing list at PoolEthereum.com to be notified as things proceed.
smaragda
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January 31, 2014, 07:24:18 AM
 #992


Considering that Ethereum is getting more and more popular... I believe the investment cap of 30000 BTC should be killed.

30000 BTC is a lot of crypto anyway... if the IPO were to reach those levels... who cares if it goes even higher?


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romerun
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Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.


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January 31, 2014, 07:52:26 AM
 #993

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I say get rid of the premine altogether as it immediately dilutes investors Ether right from the start.

Raising money via an IPO AND 50% premine is what most people are complaining about...

There's been no good valid explanation for the 50% premine.

Actually there has been, if you read what Vitalik has posted and ignore the FUD.

The bitcoins go to developing the client, applications, and the entire ecosystem. Fifty percent of the premine goes to pay the founders (time locked) and fifty percent goes to endow an Ethereum foundation to maintain the code.

Look at XCP (which I've invested a small amount in): There is some serious concern in the community because nearly 2000 BTC have been burned, but only FIVE have been donated to developing the actual client. What if they don't manage to develop a nice, functional client with only four thousand bucks (5 BTC @ $800 each)? Then the $1.5 million in "investments" (burnt BTC) are lost.

So you have a dilemma. PoB eliminates the trust and fairness issue because the coins are destroyed and nobody gets them--and the result is that developers may not have enough money to actually finish the project. The IPO model requires trusting developers to handle funds (in this case, the invested BTC) but empowers them--through adequate funding--to create a viable ecosystem.

The point of ipo money does not go to dev is to show fairness. If a concept makes sense and it's fair, ppl will tend to contribute developing things, thereby seed money is not necessary. In contrast, if ethereum is actually good idea, but ipo/coin distribution is rigged, ppl might prefer to let the initial devs do all the work as they are paid to do which conflicts to their goal of making the platform that ppl want to build things on top of it.

Vitalik is one of those btc early folks, I doubt if he really needs this ipo money in exchange of fairness, but others in the team might just heard bitcoin in 2013, and convince him to take this route.
gutshot5820
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January 31, 2014, 09:35:45 AM
 #994


Considering that Ethereum is getting more and more popular... I believe the investment cap of 30000 BTC should be killed.

30000 BTC is a lot of crypto anyway... if the IPO were to reach those levels... who cares if it goes even higher?



I laughed.  There is so much wrong in your post.

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Rampion
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January 31, 2014, 10:57:37 AM
 #995

I am newbie but realy interested in this project. I think that If they were expecting at least 500BTC from IPO and that would be enough for them, so  why it would'nt be enough if ppl invest more? I would suggest premine 500BTC worth ethers = 10000000*0,5 for ther expenses no matter how much total investment will be. Or at least their % share should gradualy decerase along with the increase of the overall amount of investment. It would encourage more investors and give bigger chance for project to be succesfull - everybody would be happy  Smiley

I say get rid of the premine altogether as it immediately dilutes investors Ether right from the start.

Raising money via an IPO AND 50% premine is what most people are complaining about...

There's been no good valid explanation for the 50% premine.

Yes, there is: greed.

Don't underestimate the power of that very reason.

I really do not like the "IPO" model - I wonder what Satoshi would think about that. We all know that if the technology is truly revolutionary and it sticks out, the founders will be greatly rewarded by being the very early adopters. This "IPO" thing is just a way to get rich quick while unloading the full risk on investors. Instead of working first and then harvest the fruits later, people prefers to gather the money first and then work - this model is spreading because people is realizing they can get away with it. A very "open source" model if you ask me.

The MSC "IPO" was quite a joke, with the founder "investing" on his project by sending +1,000 BTC to an address that he controlled himself.... It looks like Ethereum will take that model to a whole new level.

The saddest thing? You can bet they will raise thousands of BTC, which is a pity indeed, because it gives a strong incentive for people to replicate over and over this faulty model fueled by greed (both investor's and founder's greed), at least until the SEC steps in.

Friendly advice to the founders: the SEC will step in eventually, maybe not now but in a year or two, do not even dare to think this is play money and that you will get away unscattered by raising millions of $$ by selling unregulated securities.


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January 31, 2014, 11:13:07 AM
 #996

Yes, there is: greed.

Don't underestimate the power of that very reason.

I really do not like the "IPO" model - I wonder what Satoshi would think about that. We all know that if the technology is truly revolutionary and it sticks out, the founders will be greatly rewarded by being the very early adopters. This "IPO" thing is just a way to get rich quick while unloading the full risk on investors. Instead of working first and then harvest the fruits later, people prefers to gather the money first and then work - this model is spreading because people is realizing they can get away with it. A very "open source" model if you ask me.

The MSC "IPO" was quite a joke, with the founder "investing" on his project by sending +1,000 BTC to an address that he controlled himself.... It looks like Ethereum will take that model to a whole new level.

The saddest thing? You can bet they will raise thousands of BTC, which is a pity indeed, because it gives a strong incentive for people to replicate over and over this faulty model fueled by greed (both investor's and founder's greed), at least until the SEC steps in.

Friendly advice to the founders: the SEC will step in eventually, maybe not now but in a year or two, do not even dare to think this is play money and that you will get away unscattered by raising millions of $$ by selling unregulated securities.

While I appreciate what you're saying, and agree with some of it, you can't run to the SEC every time something happens you don't like. People really have become pathetic like that nowadays. Everyone wants to do everything and take no responsibility for the scenario where they just ended up making a bad call - plain and simple. You're not even buying any damn equity, so I don't know what the government is supposed to do (and whose government?).

In any case, I hope they can arrive at terms that the vocal majority here at least agrees with. As long as the terms are clear, and everyone understands what they're buying from the Ethereum folks, we can't cry if it doesn't work out - that's the risk involved in anything speculative, let alone cryptocurrency. Although, I do think the points on us carrying all the risk are very reasonable and need to be addressed.

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January 31, 2014, 11:29:08 AM
 #997

While I appreciate what you're saying, and agree with some of it, you can't run to the SEC every time something happens you don't like.

I agree completely, and I have no intention to "run" to the SEC. Furthermore, if I was 19 like Vitalik is, I'd probably decide to get rich first and then deal with the SEC or whatever. The sensible thing is to remember that that did not play very well for Charlie Shrem, but a handful of millions are well worth the risk for most youngesters.

Regarding the model: business is business, and the founders have found a huge business opportunity. They have realized people is demanding get rich quick schemes and is willing to throw their money to whoever comes up with the next thing that smells of innovation and triple digit % gains. You can see how colored coins get less attention than MSC... Why? The answer is very simple: greed. MSC is marketed as the "ultimate investment" (as Ethereal is), colored coins isn't.

In the world I come from, companies make IPO's when they already have a product that works. Before that, you have private investments, seed capital, whatever - but you do not go public.

What's happening is pure madness in my book. Profitable madness? Probably, but its unsustainable in the long term. I think the team behind Ethereal is very valid and that what they are proposing is a needed innovation, but I just cannot help disliking the funding model - it creates too many negative incentives.

gambitx
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January 31, 2014, 11:31:13 AM
 #998

I"m just amazed how gutshot single handedly destroyed this IPO. How come Ethereum listened to him? I wasn't sure if i wanted to invest but maybe i would have
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January 31, 2014, 11:36:03 AM
 #999

Why doesn't Ethereum use Javascript for it's "high level language", since it's easy as hell to write and there are plenty of fast javascript parsers out there?

https://github.com/pocesar - BTC 1KLRAFHGGhE2WiRASkASatvMR1vALmkB9L
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January 31, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
 #1000

Why doesn't Ethereum use Javascript for it's "high level language", since it's easy as hell to write and there are plenty of fast javascript parsers out there?

Good question. I thought about it when saw Vitalik reply about Python. Also JS has more fans than Py.
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