[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[canth]

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management

Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested.

If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.

Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.

[_ingsoc]

Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested.

If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.

Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.

Listen to this guy. His posts actually help this thread.

[freedomfighter]

"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"

still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.

They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.  

[canth]

"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"

still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.

They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.  

I will grant that they are perfectly comfortable with raising far more money than the minimal amount of 500BTC - they're capitalists after all and they want to develop their product, quickly. The more salaries they can pay, the more developers and security professionals they can apply to projects and the faster the platform develops - it's not a bad thing for investors, miners or founders.

Your suggestion to limit per address is completely insufficient to prevent wealthy investors from investing as they wish. There is a minimal cost difference for sending 1000 BTC from 1 address or 2000 addresses. (I'd estimate around 0.2BTC in trx fees and perhaps .1 BTC in paying someone to create the addresses, if the investor lacks the technical knowledge).

[rdnkjdi]

"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"

still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.

They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.  

I will grant that they are perfectly comfortable with raising far more money than the minimal amount of 500BTC - they're capitalists after all and they want to develop their product, quickly. The more salaries they can pay, the more developers and security professionals they can apply to projects and the faster the platform develops - it's not a bad thing for investors, miners or founders.

Your suggestion to limit per address is completely insufficient to prevent wealthy investors from investing as they wish. There is a minimal cost difference for sending 1000 BTC from 1 address or 2000 addresses. (I'd estimate around 0.2BTC in trx fees and perhaps .1 BTC in paying someone to create the addresses, if the investor lacks the technical knowledge).

My .02 FWIW

Yeah - see this is the deal.  If people think Eth is worth 500K - then it will start out being funded and valued at 500K.  If they think it's worth 30mil - then it will be worth 30 mil from the get go.  My impression is that the founders expect this to take off.  And they are comfortable with 500K or 30mil.

People need to do more thinking in terms of "how big is the pie" vs "how much of the pie who gets".  The initial investors are largely determining how big the initial pie is.  The pie will continue to grow to pay miners at a set rate.  I don't get what the big deal is - IF this works there is a lot of money to be made.  But not for a few years.  The pump and dumpers should probably avoid this one. 

I'm still trying to figure out exactly where the initial bitcoins are going to wind up.  Hope they release more in the prospectus.  My impression was that the usage of bitcoins was going to be completely transparent.  But there is so much shit going around I honestly can't tell.

Capitalism is never fair.

[kdrop22]

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management

Yes, the real issue is the valuation of the company and the dilution of the said share at 40% per year (forever).

[infofront]

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management

Yes, the real issue is the valuation of the company and the dilution of the said share at 40% per year (forever).

At 40% inflation per year, I don't see how this could possibly be a good investment.

[ddink7]

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management

Yes, the real issue is the valuation of the company and the dilution of the said share at 40% per year (forever).

At 40% inflation per year, I don't see how this could possibly be a good investment.

It's not 40% per year. Where X = initial ether raised through crowdfunding;

Initial supply = 1.5X
0.4X will be mined each year.

Ether in existence at the end of:
Year 1 = 1.9X
Year 2 = 2.3X
Year 3 = 2.7X
Year 4 = 3.1X
Year 5 = 3.5X

For an inflation rate of 26% in Year 1, 21% in Year 2, 17% in Year 3, 14% in Year 4, and 12% in Year 5

[_ingsoc]

Fundraiser is being pushed back: http://blog.ethereum.org/?p=100/conference-testnet-and-fundraiser-updates

[KoinMaster]

They changed the headline on their webseite to "testnet release in....." This means IPO cancelled?

http://www.ethereum.org/

[_ingsoc]

They changed the headline on their webseite to "testnet release in....." This means IPO cancelled?

http://www.ethereum.org/

Not cancelled. Pushed back it appears. See my post.

Fundraiser is being pushed back: http://blog.ethereum.org/?p=100/conference-testnet-and-fundraiser-updates

[_ingsoc]

Good.

Don't know if they'll change any terms. I wonder how long until we hear about the new fundraiser?

[KoinMaster]

Very good news, indeed!
 
I'd have been very disappointed with Vitalik, had he pushed through with the IPO & launch under this terms. He would have destroyed his reputation, IMO....

[_ingsoc]

Very good news, indeed!
 
I'd have been very disappointed with Vitalik, if he'd have pushed through with the IPO & launch under this terms. He'd have lost his reputation, IMO....

Let's see what happens. There might be no changes to the structure. It could be a case of not being ready server-side, hence "logistical" issues.

[KoinMaster]

Very good news, indeed!
 
I'd have been very disappointed with Vitalik, if he'd have pushed through with the IPO & launch under this terms. He'd have lost his reputation, IMO....

Let's see what happens. There might be no changes to the structure. It could be a case of not being ready server-side, hence "logistical" issues.

Hope not.... For Vitalik is his reputation and future in the crypto-currency world at stake. He won't dare to risk such an uproar from the community again, IMO....

[turtoro]

Hey gutshot5820, looking forward to your usual informed, unbiased, factual, and neutral response to the developments...

[ThePatient]

Awesome! Really good news.

Now if we can just get a dev in here answering some of the questions posted..

Also, I'm really looking forward to seeing vitalik's presentation video. I wonder when it will be up. I'm surprised it isn't already, tbh. I would have figured someone with a smartphone would have uploaded to youtube.

[_ingsoc]

Hope not.... For Vitalik is his reputation and future in the crypto-currency world at stake. He won't dare to risk such an uproar from the community again, IMO....

Maybe you're right. It becomes very difficult to please everyone when you have a long-term perspective.

[turtoro]

Awesome! Really good news.

Now if we can just get a dev in here answering some of the questions posted..

Also, I'm really looking forward to seeing vitalik's presentation video. I wonder when it will be up. I'm surprised it isn't already, tbh. I would have figured someone with a smartphone would have uploaded to youtube.

Vitaly has been posting on reddit

[Vitalik Buterin]

Conference, Alpha Testnet and Fundraiser Updates

January 29, 2014 - By Team

Ethereum received an incredible response at the Miami Bitcoin Conference. We traveled there anticipating many technical questions as well as a philosophical discussion about the purpose of Ethereum; however, the overwhelming amount of interest and enthusiasm for the project was much larger than we had anticipated. Vitalik’s presentation was met with both a standing ovation and a question queue that took hours to address.

Because we intend on providing an equal opportunity to all those who want to be involved, and are reviewing the relevant logistical and regulatory issues for a fundraiser of this scale, we have decided to postpone the Feb 1 launch of the fundraiser. We will make the announcement of the new fundraiser launch date on our official website: Ethereum.org.

The Ethereum project is also excited to announce the alpha release of the open source testnet client to the community at the beginning of February. This will give people an opportunity to get involved with the project and experiment with Ethereum scripts and contracts, and gain a better understanding of the technical properties of the Ethereum platform. Launching the testnet at this date will give those interested in the fundraiser a chance to better understand what the Ethereum project is about before participating.

The testnet will include full support for sending and receiving transactions, the initial version of the scripting language as described in our whitepaper, and may or may not include mining. This will also be the first major cryptocurrency project to have two official clients released at the same time, with one written in C++ and the other in Go; a Python client is also in the works. A compiler from the Ethereum CLL to Ethereum script will be released very soon.

A note on security

The fundraiser will NOT be launching on February 1st and any attempt to collect funds at this time should be considered a scam. There have been some scams in the forums thus please use caution and only consider information posted on Ethereum.org to be legitimate. It is important to reinforce to all that only information released and posted at Ethereum.org should be trusted as many are likely to impersonate us.