Bitcoin Forum
April 24, 2017, 01:26:03 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.14.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 [40] 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ... 681 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1254370 times)
Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1554

Newbie


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
 #781

I'm now getting more and more surprised by each passing day that NO ONE from the list has bothered to answer.

This really is looking more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM!

If anyone still thinks of investing on day 1, please read this thread from the beginning to the end. Please don't rush your decision.

Why should they wast they time to answer to people who are incapable to read the official docs? >90% here is just FUD/totally unqualified posts.
People who really are interested should take at least 1 hour and read about it and try to understand it. Maybe not everything is so easy for the first moment and the IPO has some complexity, but to write SCAM without having any idea about it, disqualifies just yourself.

First I didn't just write SCAM and you really don't know how much I read about the whole project, so please don't presume I don't have any idea about it.

I said it is looking more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM!

Can you please help me understand why there is no reply from ANYONE from their "team"? Everyone of them will get plenty of money very soon... Why is the whole investing thing so punitive to investors in this project? Why such greed?

When I started reading about it a week ago, I immediately set aside 1 btc for investing into it. Now I will wait very probably to buy on the market after the "IPO".
I'm not trolling nor I'm a part of some group that tries to influence the "IPO". I'm regular guy who tries to make an investment that will be one day profitable.

Dear k99, would you not agree that such project with so many people involved that has such high aspirations would/should participate SOMEWHERE to answer all those questions _ingsoc is so diligently organizing?

People are very willing to invest. Look at NEM https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.0 what is happening. People see engagement and commitment and they see when someone is not just greedy but in fact wants to and tries to make thing as fair as possible. All those very "established" guys from Ethereum project should learn a lot from guys like utopianfuture.
Unfortunately this lack of communication ONLY 2 DAYS prior to the "IPO" is very very suspicious.

Please read my previous posts and you'll see that I changed my mind gradually and I really like the idea that they've announced but I also learned that that too is copied from somewhere ripple related. :-(

Please also look at my "Business plan" and tell me why it is different than what they've done so far? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589.msg4794599#msg4794599
Why don't you trust me as you do them? I certainly am more experienced and proven in that field then they are in theirs. I already have working business etc.
But of course no one in the right mind would invest under such terms in my idea because they would be taking ALL THE RISK and would be punished when I take new partners and dilute their shares. All that under the assumption that I will go to work after I receive such fantastic money that I will share with my friends (whom we don't know anything and their role in the project: how much they will do and get).

I would be very happy to be misguided/misinformed here but this REALLY looks more and more like a COMPLETE SCAM to me by each passing day. At least from my point of view which I believe am free to express here.

Again, I encouraged only patience and reading to people who still think of investing on day 1. Is that bad?

Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...
1493040363
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1493040363

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1493040363
Reply with quote  #2

1493040363
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1493040363
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1493040363

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1493040363
Reply with quote  #2

1493040363
Report to moderator
canth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 01:39:36 PM
 #782


Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...

Whenever doing something for the first time, there are those who decry it to be impossible. I think that it's wise to bring up concerns but the major value in Ethereum is attempting to do something that has not been done before. If it fails because it's too ambitious, I hope that investors will have taken this into account in evaluating the risk/reward factor.

Tompa
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 01:53:46 PM
 #783


Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...

Whenever doing something for the first time, there are those who decry it to be impossible. I think that it's wise to bring up concerns but the major value in Ethereum is attempting to do something that has not been done before. If it fails because it's too ambitious, I hope that investors will have taken this into account in evaluating the risk/reward factor.

Agreed. Problem that I have with this is that there is NO RISK to the developers. All the risk is on the investors whose stakes will be significantly diluted if it is successful while on the other hand Vitalik and the team win extremely big no matter how this works out.
Herp
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 02:01:46 PM
 #784

So this Turing OS people say it's so very flexible is actually a big liability also and opens up a fat can of worms. In other words they're likely biting more than they can chew.

Judging by how people perceived this IPO so far, their chewing speed should be slow-motion like.


███████████████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
████████████████████████
███████████████████████
█████████████████▐████
███████████████████████
████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████
DECENT
FOUNDATION



██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██

██
██
██


[D]ecentralized application
[E]liminated third parties
[C]ontent distribution



██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██

██
██
██


[E]ncrypted & secure
[N]o borders
[T]imeless reputation



██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██

██
██
██



██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██

██
██
██

Tompa
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 02:19:52 PM
 #785

Judging by how people perceived this IPO so far, their chewing speed should be slow-motion like.

And hopefully with more communication....
becoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
 #786

The question is not about the right to participate. The question is why is Charles proud of that fact? It looks like a major inconsistency to me. It is like working on a new mail server app and in the same time promoting your project by saying that some members of your team worked in the local post office and were among the best postmen?!

BTW, why has Charles parted with BitShares and Invictus project? What happened to the 0.5 million VC there? Are his investors happy with current state of BitShares and Invictus?

Who says he's "proud"? To me it just sounded like he said it in passing.
In a promo campaign you never say something that you don't take special pride of!

At the risk of running in circles I think he merely stated it - not to show off or be proud of the fact - but as a way to showcase the credentials of the people involved in the project.

He has showcased the credentials only of the GS people. Are they the most important members for this project?

18sNtvUmtW6nrQXfYt1wvviGockSWxhPBX
houseo
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 03:47:25 PM
 #787

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.
romerun
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 03:52:59 PM
 #788


Blockchain powered by Turing-complete language leads to a lot of unresolvable issues. It's not a scam, more like a failure where a lot of money is involved. I hope Vitalik is smarter than Matthew N. Wright and knows when it's time to stop...

Whenever doing something for the first time, there are those who decry it to be impossible. I think that it's wise to bring up concerns but the major value in Ethereum is attempting to do something that has not been done before. If it fails because it's too ambitious, I hope that investors will have taken this into account in evaluating the risk/reward factor.

I lost count how many times TRC and FTC networks got attacked, they still live. I can foresee red flag issues happen to ether chain, but if they're not so freaking really bad, ppl will forget after fixed.
lonsharim
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 04:00:16 PM
 #789

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents.

Only if you bought it in the first week

If however you bought it in the last 3 days ether cost 80 cents (@800$ a btc)
freedomfighter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 203


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 04:07:02 PM
 #790

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
canth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 04:48:40 PM
 #791

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management

Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested.

If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.

Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.

_ingsoc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426



View Profile WWW
January 29, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
 #792

Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested.

If the Ethereum founders were to only accept say 500 BTC and issue Ethers at say 100 satoshis ea, it would just limit the public from investing and then the complaint would be loudest from those who could not get in on the IPO at the initial price. The price would instantly spike up and the market cap would end up in the same place, only with fewer participants.

Invest or don't but just realize that the price and quantity is only based upon the desire of investors to participate.

Listen to this guy. His posts actually help this thread.

freedomfighter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 203


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 05:03:57 PM
 #793

"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"

still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.

They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.  
canth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1358



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 05:31:11 PM
 #794

"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"

still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.

They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.  

I will grant that they are perfectly comfortable with raising far more money than the minimal amount of 500BTC - they're capitalists after all and they want to develop their product, quickly. The more salaries they can pay, the more developers and security professionals they can apply to projects and the faster the platform develops - it's not a bad thing for investors, miners or founders.

Your suggestion to limit per address is completely insufficient to prevent wealthy investors from investing as they wish. There is a minimal cost difference for sending 1000 BTC from 1 address or 2000 addresses. (I'd estimate around 0.2BTC in trx fees and perhaps .1 BTC in paying someone to create the addresses, if the investor lacks the technical knowledge).

rdnkjdi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 05:50:22 PM
 #795

"Market cap and valuation is decided by the market, not by the Ethereum founders. The initial price of ether is completely irrelevant because the quantity is directly tied to amount invested"

still: i agree that it is all supply and demand. BUT: they create a target max valuation by saying 30000BTC for 45M or so ETH (1x1500 in average). they view this as a possible target if enough are in.

They could have gone with a target of 3000BTC goal with a limit of 0.5BTC per address or something and and a different exchange rate. it is all about defining the initial number of coins and starting point. THEY DO see the 1BTC@2000 ETH and a 24M valuation as a fair starting point.  

I will grant that they are perfectly comfortable with raising far more money than the minimal amount of 500BTC - they're capitalists after all and they want to develop their product, quickly. The more salaries they can pay, the more developers and security professionals they can apply to projects and the faster the platform develops - it's not a bad thing for investors, miners or founders.

Your suggestion to limit per address is completely insufficient to prevent wealthy investors from investing as they wish. There is a minimal cost difference for sending 1000 BTC from 1 address or 2000 addresses. (I'd estimate around 0.2BTC in trx fees and perhaps .1 BTC in paying someone to create the addresses, if the investor lacks the technical knowledge).

My .02 FWIW

Yeah - see this is the deal.  If people think Eth is worth 500K - then it will start out being funded and valued at 500K.  If they think it's worth 30mil - then it will be worth 30 mil from the get go.  My impression is that the founders expect this to take off.  And they are comfortable with 500K or 30mil.

People need to do more thinking in terms of "how big is the pie" vs "how much of the pie who gets".  The initial investors are largely determining how big the initial pie is.  The pie will continue to grow to pay miners at a set rate.  I don't get what the big deal is - IF this works there is a lot of money to be made.  But not for a few years.  The pump and dumpers should probably avoid this one. 

I'm still trying to figure out exactly where the initial bitcoins are going to wind up.  Hope they release more in the prospectus.  My impression was that the usage of bitcoins was going to be completely transparent.  But there is so much shit going around I honestly can't tell.

Capitalism is never fair.
kdrop22
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 05:53:05 PM
 #796

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
Yes, the real issue is the valuation of the company and the dilution of the said share at 40% per year (forever).
infofront
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 845


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 06:10:42 PM
 #797

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
Yes, the real issue is the valuation of the company and the dilution of the said share at 40% per year (forever).

At 40% inflation per year, I don't see how this could possibly be a good investment.
ddink7
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1008



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 06:48:02 PM
 #798

many people in the thread saying ipo scam, wait to buy coins after-market. during ipo phase 1btc = 2000 ether. how much do you think an ether will be after market?

if btc = $800, that means 1 ether = 40 cents. do you think they will be more or less than 40 cents after market? of all the coins on coinmarketcap 22 are greater than 40 cents.

This isn't the point. The point is the valuation or the market cap. here they aim to raise based on a 24M valuation post money. It can be with a million or a billion coins. doesnt matter. it can also be 5 cent after the IPO and still a good $3M valuation which what I would give in a normal world for a pre-seed concept with good management
Yes, the real issue is the valuation of the company and the dilution of the said share at 40% per year (forever).

At 40% inflation per year, I don't see how this could possibly be a good investment.

It's not 40% per year. Where X = initial ether raised through crowdfunding;

Initial supply = 1.5X
0.4X will be mined each year.

Ether in existence at the end of:
Year 1 = 1.9X
Year 2 = 2.3X
Year 3 = 2.7X
Year 4 = 3.1X
Year 5 = 3.5X

For an inflation rate of 26% in Year 1, 21% in Year 2, 17% in Year 3, 14% in Year 4, and 12% in Year 5

Dash - Digital Cash
https://www.dash.org/
_ingsoc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426



View Profile WWW
January 29, 2014, 06:56:00 PM
 #799

Fundraiser is being pushed back: http://blog.ethereum.org/?p=100/conference-testnet-and-fundraiser-updates

KoinMaster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 318


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 06:57:31 PM
 #800

They changed the headline on their webseite to "testnet release in....." This means IPO cancelled?

http://www.ethereum.org/


 
         ▄▄█████████▄▄
      ▄█████████████████▄
   ▄████▀            ▀████▄
  █████                █████▄
 ███████████████████████████▄
████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀███▄
████        ██████        ████
████        ██████        ████
████        ██████        ████
████        ██████        ████
 ████▄      ██████      ▄████
  ▀████     ██████    ▄████▀
    ▀████▄▄▄██████▄▄▄████▀
      ▀▀██████████████▀▀
TIDEX



Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 [40] 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ... 681 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!