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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1056909 times)
td services
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January 25, 2014, 11:15:37 PM
 #281

I don't know how long has you been involved with bitcoin but the sooner you understand that bitcoin and decentralized network is not compatible with current law framework the better you understand why things are the way they are.

Take the red pill and be free or go back to your current comfortable existence of investing in sp500


there is no issue with the fund raise. People are free to spend their money as they choose

also who said it occurs in us jurisdiction.



Not true, there are laws regarding transparency and compliance when people are trying to raise millions of dollars from strangers...in order to prevent fraud.  There will be similar laws in most countries and Canada if Im not mistaken is much tougher than US when it comes to crowdfundraising.

And why, who cares what jurisdiction they are in, if they are asking for 36 million from total strangers before they even open for business they should spend a few hundred thousand to provide assurances that they are in legal rights in each country they do business with and file all the necessary regulatory documents.  If they are not hiding anything or worried why would they care what jurisdiction they are in?

+1 And I have no vested interest in Ethereum beyond wanting to participate in the pre-sale. gutshot5820 repeatedly invokes US regulations and seeks to impose them on a global marketplace. He does not comprehend the whole purpose of crypto assets and so does not belong in this community. He should go back to his safe little 'empire in decline' and enjoy his illusion of safety and security while it still lasts.

"Those who would sacrifice their liberty for security deserve neither."
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January 25, 2014, 11:18:38 PM
 #282

@utopianfuture

you are confusing crypto with securities
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January 25, 2014, 11:27:03 PM
 #283

I'm not so sure about this.

- They are asking an insane $36 million

- 50% pre mined

- They are setting a price out of nothing for 1 eth, while it's not even out yet

- "ex" Goldman Sachs pricks are supporting this project

aaand probably other red flags i'm not aware of.
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January 25, 2014, 11:29:17 PM
 #284

You two keep hamming it away with each other, Personally I think both of you are a complete joke.  Anybody who hassles people for questioning the legitimacy of requesting 36 million online from complete strangers is either getting paid as a shill by the company or has no sense of reality.

You have to be fuckin absolutey living in a bubble for hassling people that are questioning the legality of a totally strange entity asking strangers on the internet based off a youtube ad to invest up to 36 million.  Why dont you sell your home and car and give them all of your own money before asking the bitcoin community to give them 36 million upfront with no risk.  LMAO you are classic, you must think everyone on here is dumb that questions their motives.  I think its the exact opposite.

Please leave. There is no value to your existence.
Why don't you leave?  What kind of idiot encourages people to invest millions based off a youtube ad?  What is the harm in demanding more transparency and compliance with regulations?  Do you buy a used car without checking the  the engine or if a guy tries to sell you a diamond on the street do you immediately pay him based on his looks?  I highly doubt it, even small investments you would take the time to check it out before you handed over a single dollar.  And here you are apparently advocating everyone in the bitcoin community to give these guys millions with zero transparency or insurance that they are in compliance with  laws. So if for some reason they disappear once the money is transferred what then?  You and everyone will start crying because you didn't realize what you were getting in to. ARe you going to guarantee everyone's money with your pitiful life savings?   Not going to happen to you right?  Sure when its not your fracking money what do you care?  But if you you were going to buy anything worth of any remote value you would make sure that you are not getting scammed.  In a public forum where your money is not at risk, now its ok to just plow million into this entity with absolutely no assurance of whats going on?  Hypocrite, lets see you do this type of business deal everyday in your business life.  You dont fukin care right now and talk shit because it wont be your money and if you do, it will be a small negligible amount.

Edit: read your previous posts, now it all makes sense.  You have a vested interest in this coin succeeding.  No wonder you made that comment.  Only a shill or someone with principal interest would damn someone for questioning why there isn't more transparency for an entity asking for 36 million from internet strangers.

They are NXTers. And low tier to boot.  They are followers; you can't expect them to question authority.
I for one thank you for wording my doubts.

30,000 BTC or 300 BTC, does not matter - there is no wrong question when you're asking other people's money.
but if you're dealing with 30,000 BTC, no stone should be left unturned within legal and contractual framework.

LOL at all these requests. Here the disclaimer comes first. I am not investing a single cent in Ethereum for some other reasons. But

You guys are clueless about Bitcoin and crypto movements in general. Crypto movements  are grey areas, if the government understand them a bit more they will probably ban them outright. So you are pretty much on your own because you cant request them to provide you the impossible. If in the future Ethereum, and also NXT prove to be viable and working well; then all current fundraising, IPO laws, financial regulations, capital movement restrictions are  going to be re-written. If these laws hold strong, then that would mean all of these protocols will be banned. Either ways anything you are requesting now will be useless.

First rule of crypto invseting: only invest what you can afford to lose.

 Oh great thanks for clarifying things, if you say it, it must be true.  Believe it or not, there are rules governing crowdfundraising 36 million dollars.  Just because they are not complying doesn't mean they are acting legally.  And so nice of you to let everyone know you will nothing to do with this coin, but oh yea go ahead and invest as much money as you want because buyer beware.  That's not how it works in the financial community, It's follow all regulations according to your federal law regarding crowd fundraising, file the appropriate documents, get verified and bonded and then release full disclosure transparency to all interested investors.  They lost their small time, we are just coin devs privilege once they decided to fundraise 36 million dollars.  Now, yes they can skirt the laws and unless someone actually starts an investigation, they can get away with it.  But believe me, if they did not follow proper procedure and someone loses even a bit of money they can get sued or shut down by the government, doesn't matter what country they operate out of.  That's why anyone thinking of investing a sizeable amount should think twice before investing a dime presale.  If they get shut down, guess who is long gone with their bitcoins.  So yea you are proving my point, buyer beware, but if some strangers are asking  you for 36 million and a pot of gold, dont you think it would be prudent to ask for due diligence?  Is everyone so blinded that they are just willing to ignore a simple principle to trust but verify?  Sick people.

Bitcoin address: 1BPtjSw1U19r6bSDXAc3Adr5xtS21yEwXU
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January 25, 2014, 11:30:19 PM
 #285

The technology is interesting, but this is the greediest release of crypto history. Its better, than the copycoins released lately, so a small (10%) premine and/or presell would be acceptable. But this is way too much.
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January 25, 2014, 11:30:41 PM
 #286

I don't normally make these kinds of posts, or even bother with an account, but Bitcointalk has really deteriorated since I first saw it. Half the people on here can't even construct a proper sentence, but for some reason think we should all hear what they have to say, no matter how asinine the crap they shout over and over.

I've got a couple of points, if you care enough to read:

(1) These guys are trying to build something interesting here. They've put thought into it and a lot of energy. You need to learn how to respect someone else's work, even if you disagree with it. If the whole world operated like the people posting on Bitcointalk, we would live in a real-life idiocracy. Take a step back and realise you're just smearing crap on the walls someone else built through hard work - what have you done?

(2) If you do come to the conclusion that you don't like the project, that's fine. Try and make a statement that's rational and move on. People are shouting about devs demanding millions of dollars when nobody is demanding anything, how young Vitalik is when that has zero impact on anything (can't imagine what you were like at 19 - Lord help us), or this totally irrational obsession with premine = bad when the roads you drive on and the water you drink got premined and delivered to your tires and orifices through some type of social organisation.

(3) We don't live in a fantasy world where devs are free. People need to eat and can't develop something as significant as this project over many years without getting paid. The BTC raised will be completely transparent and go to actually making this happen (and that'll be transparent as well). If you knew anything about project development, let alone cryptocurrency development, you would know how incredibly hard it is to find competent developers. They have those and the contacts to get more. In fact, if you did a little bit of research, you would know there's constant activity of totally open code being written on a near daily basis already.

(4) The founders need to have a vested interest, just like developers. They are the ones who will champion this project harder than anyone else. If there's no incentive for them to do so, what's the point? The founders are going to dedicate years of their lives to growing this project and creating value through building something that's novel. Most projects to date have been amateur hour, and the bar is being set pretty high with Ethereum - maybe that explains all the butthurt some people have about it. How about you look into what each of the founders have contributed to this community? I think you'll get a pretty good understanding of how significant this project is for the larger and future ecosystem if you do.

tl;dr Respect someone's hard work, learn to move on if you disagree, understand that making cool things costs money, and look at the bigger picture.

Thanks for posting this. I'm really hoping we can get a good conversation going about identity and reputation systems or decentralized autonomous organizations or how to earn money by renting out your hard drive. 
gutshot5820
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January 25, 2014, 11:37:29 PM
 #287

I don't know how long has you been involved with bitcoin but the sooner you understand that bitcoin and decentralized network is not compatible with current law framework the better you understand why things are the way they are.

Take the red pill and be free or go back to your current comfortable existence of investing in sp500


there is no issue with the fund raise. People are free to spend their money as they choose

also who said it occurs in us jurisdiction.



Not true, there are laws regarding transparency and compliance when people are trying to raise millions of dollars from strangers...in order to prevent fraud.  There will be similar laws in most countries and Canada if Im not mistaken is much tougher than US when it comes to crowdfundraising.

And why, who cares what jurisdiction they are in, if they are asking for 36 million from total strangers before they even open for business they should spend a few hundred thousand to provide assurances that they are in legal rights in each country they do business with and file all the necessary regulatory documents.  If they are not hiding anything or worried why would they care what jurisdiction they are in?

+1 And I have no vested interest in Ethereum beyond wanting to participate in the pre-sale. gutshot5820 repeatedly invokes US regulations and seeks to impose them on a global marketplace. He does not comprehend the whole purpose of crypto assets and so does not belong in this community. He should go back to his safe little 'empire in decline' and enjoy his illusion of safety and security while it still lasts.

"Those who would sacrifice their liberty for security deserve neither."

Silly meaningless passive inspirational quotes.  Full of sound and fury with absolutely no meaning.  Worthless in every way because you have a vested small time interest in making a profit.  If you lose a btc who cares right but 36 million as a whole community?  If you had that kind of money you would never invest 36 million into the coin unless there was proper due diligence, bond and the assurance that all regulatory laws were followed.  And yet out of your selfish greed to make a quick short buck you are advocating the entire bitcoin community to invest 36 total million dollars without oversight.  cockroach.

Bitcoin address: 1BPtjSw1U19r6bSDXAc3Adr5xtS21yEwXU
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January 25, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
 #288

I'm not so sure about this.

- They are asking an insane $36 million

- 50% pre mined

- They are setting a price out of nothing for 1 eth, while it's not even out yet

- "ex" Goldman Sachs pricks are supporting this project

aaand probably other red flags i'm not aware of.


They're not asking for $36m. There's a hard cap of 30k BTC. That's all it is. Somehow that's been drawn out of context and waved around. The vast majority of the funding goes to development and building things for the Ethereum ecosystem. They actually don't end up with all that much, and what they end up with keeps them vested in the project for many years. How is that bad? If people are pissed about it being "unfair", then we need to talk about this in a rational way and vote on it.

This whole Goldman Sachs thing is stupid as all hell. Just do some research please instead of just accepting what everyone tells you. It's literally the equivalent of calling Edward Snowden a traitor today because he worked for the NSA in the past.

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January 25, 2014, 11:43:44 PM
 #289

Since they take both BTC and 33% of the premine - what is stopping the Dev's from donating their own BTC - receiving 1.5X in Ether and all the BTC back through the foundation?
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January 25, 2014, 11:44:02 PM
 #290

There is a serious issue her nobody is talking about, my understanding is Ether is an open source project just like bitcoin, with added programming language. But being open source what's to stop anyone from creating a clone that sells contracts for less,

This came up on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1w0t3i/forking_ethereum/
There are integrations, collaborations and partnerships that can't be forked. Also, if you want to start a business on Ethereum, would you want to risk starting it on a clone?

Quote
Another concern is all the ideas that are mentioned are not completely original...
That's true. Satoshi wanted to experiment with a scripting language. This idea has been around. The technologies to do this are finally coming together.

Quote
I have seen this whitepaper change three times already within a weekh for people to throw in the money. [/size]

The offical announcement is this weekend in Miami. You've been looking at the early drafts. However, I suspect there will be a lot of changes to Ethereum over the next 6 months as they test and tweak things.
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January 25, 2014, 11:44:41 PM
 #291

Silly meaningless passive inspirational quotes.  Full of sound and fury with absolutely no meaning.  Worthless in every way because you have a vested small time interest in making a profit.  If you lose a btc who cares right but 36 million as a whole community?  If you had that kind of money you would never invest 36 million into the coin unless there was proper due diligence, bond and the assurance that all regulatory laws were followed.  And yet out of your selfish greed to make a quick short buck you are advocating the entire bitcoin community to invest 36 total million dollars without oversight.  cockroach.

If you want the government to decide everything for you and protect every decision you make, go live in a mental asylum. Take some responsibility and do your own research. If you don't like the project, have the respect for others and dignity to leave and stop dirtying everything with disinformation. Every post you make is identical. We've told you a million times now that the $36m figure is a way off, but you refuse to listen. It's also been said numerous times that a prospectus will be released. This isn't equity, but you ignore that too.

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January 25, 2014, 11:45:45 PM
 #292

This thing is totally insane, 0.0001 BTC per coin, seriously ?

Isn't ethereum going for a trillion coins market cap ?



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January 25, 2014, 11:46:53 PM
 #293

Since they take both BTC and 33% of the premine - what is stopping the Dev's from donating their own BTC - receiving 1.5X in Ether and all the BTC back through the foundation?

Quoting from vbuterin (Vitalik) on Reddit:

"The organization will absolutely not attempt to increase its reserve by investing BTC into its own fundraiser."

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January 25, 2014, 11:49:34 PM
 #294

This thing is totally insane, 0.0001 BTC per coin, seriously ?

Isn't ethereum going for a trillion coins market cap ?

Regarding the trillion coins issue, read this post by canth.

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January 25, 2014, 11:51:46 PM
 #295

Silly meaningless passive inspirational quotes.  Full of sound and fury with absolutely no meaning.  Worthless in every way because you have a vested small time interest in making a profit.  If you lose a btc who cares right but 36 million as a whole community?  If you had that kind of money you would never invest 36 million into the coin unless there was proper due diligence, bond and the assurance that all regulatory laws were followed.  And yet out of your selfish greed to make a quick short buck you are advocating the entire bitcoin community to invest 36 total million dollars without oversight.  cockroach.

If you want the government to decide everything for you and protect every decision you make, go live in a mental asylum. Take some responsibility and do your own research. If you don't like the project, have the respect for others and dignity to leave and stop dirtying everything with disinformation. Every post you make is identical. We've told you a million times now that the $36m figure is a way off, but you refuse to listen. It's also been said numerous times that a prospectus will be released. This isn't equity, but you ignore that too.

Wow thats just a goddamn silly ass story, you know what I think you are a liar, thats my opinion.  You are trolling up and down this board trying to pump up the coin and for what?  Government fear mongering?  Is that your attempt to divert people from the truth that these guys are avoiding transparency and the SEC by breaking who knows how many countless laws.  These laws were created to protect people from fraud.  Yea you know what? the fracking police is part of the government and so is your mailman?  What the fuck does that have anything to do with Euretheum trying to raise 36 million from complete strangers without a single piece of documentation outside of a youtube video?

Bitcoin address: 1BPtjSw1U19r6bSDXAc3Adr5xtS21yEwXU
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January 25, 2014, 11:52:23 PM
 #296

Since they take both BTC and 33% of the premine - what is stopping the Dev's from donating their own BTC - receiving 1.5X in Ether and all the BTC back through the foundation?

Quoting from vbuterin (Vitalik) on Reddit:

"The organization will absolutely not attempt to increase its reserve by investing BTC into its own fundraiser."

That means absolutly nothing. No way to know, who invested actually.
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January 25, 2014, 11:54:09 PM
 #297

Basically.....

Fuck off pricks. Goldman Sachs involvement? What assholes. It will be fun watching this one die.
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January 25, 2014, 11:56:08 PM
 #298

Too greedy launch i think, i'll probably go for the first cheaper clone of ethereum Wink
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January 26, 2014, 12:02:14 AM
 #299

There is a serious issue her nobody is talking about, my understanding is Ether is an open source project just like bitcoin, with added programming language. But being open source what's to stop anyone from creating a clone that sells contracts for less, lets say a wookiedoo-for-less? Obviously the problem of fixed rates was not addressed, and why another group of devs who won't charge 30000 bitcoins two months from now and release an alt client that will do the same thing and give miners more thus have a much better chain with the ability to execute contracts at a much lower price allowing a faster adoption... My point by example.. Apple had an operating system better than windows at the early start, bad management and greed at Apple lead everyone to Microsoft's hands...

So If wookiedoo-for-less comes along what to stop people from deserting leaving Ether investors at a huge loss? and don't tell me the people behind it, we are talking 30000 bitcoins here not 50

Another concern is all the ideas that are mentioned are not completely original, it's been mentioned in bits and pieces here on these forums, actually smart contracts are currently being implemented elsewhere, so you want people to invest for two months on "whitepaper" without a client or a chain. I have seen this whitepaper change three times already within a week, dagger in dagger out, pow or pos, ether or wookiedoo, founders known/unknown, that is not transparency, that looks like a last minute rush to squeeze as much btc out as possible. I seen people post here, and on redit, in favor of Ether, that's wonderful, I like the project too, but after following up on the people posting in favor most are related to this project somehow. Let's take a look at this guy who wrote an open letter to the foundation about having concerns on the IPO, he is a promoter, yes that's his job, actually his website turned out to be a promotion for Ether, although he attempted to look like a concerned outsider, he is obviously not. When his suggestions were answered the next day, he was happy and these wonderful people answered his concerns, so now it's a great time to invest. However, people did not like the price increase, and all the changes were scrapped. So he comes here with his 2 posts account, and still promotes, no mention about concerns anymore. So when people ask for transparency Do not tell them to F#$# off. You have a great project here, but, your promotion is shameless, throwing in the word genius left and right does not make an investor feel any better, and certainly is not enough for people to throw in the money.


I thought the same thing. If I was a developer, I would clone the source and ask for donations afterward or set up a fee structure that pays me. No pre-mine. No crowd funding. Put up my own sweat and cash and then try and get paid. Not vice versa.

Yes all the ideas have been thrown around. Bitshares is a prime source of inspiration as the former CEO of the co. creating Bitshares was fired and is now working with this team.
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January 26, 2014, 12:03:49 AM
 #300

Silly meaningless passive inspirational quotes.  Full of sound and fury with absolutely no meaning.  Worthless in every way because you have a vested small time interest in making a profit.  If you lose a btc who cares right but 36 million as a whole community?  If you had that kind of money you would never invest 36 million into the coin unless there was proper due diligence, bond and the assurance that all regulatory laws were followed.  And yet out of your selfish greed to make a quick short buck you are advocating the entire bitcoin community to invest 36 total million dollars without oversight.  cockroach.

If you want the government to decide everything for you and protect every decision you make, go live in a mental asylum. Take some responsibility and do your own research. If you don't like the project, have the respect for others and dignity to leave and stop dirtying everything with disinformation. Every post you make is identical. We've told you a million times now that the $36m figure is a way off, but you refuse to listen. It's also been said numerous times that a prospectus will be released. This isn't equity, but you ignore that too.

+1

Actually, for me personally, the less people invest, the better. I want to see as little dilution of my investment as possible. The 36 million is a high market cap, and meant to allow as many people to participate as possible up to a point beyond which further investment would dilute investment without the organization being able to use it to bring the product to market and add more features any faster, reducing the rate of ROI.

My concern is that people like gutshot5820, who feel they are qualified to make decisions for the rest of us with their crap 20th century laws, which stifle innovation, and lock out small time investors from participating in seed rounds, while protecting established crony interests, will scare off the project from offering this opportunity to the public. Believe me, they don't have to - they already have plenty of qualified investment which would be SEC compliant. This almost happened with eMunie.

Again gutshot5820, please leave - not just this thread, but this forum.
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