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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1699826 times)
TinEye
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January 31, 2014, 03:45:52 PM
 #1001

Can anybody give a summary what happened to the presale?



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Alphi
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January 31, 2014, 04:12:08 PM
 #1002



http://business.time.com/2014/01/27/bitinstant-ceo-charlie-shrem-arrested-for-alleged-money-laundering/

So Charlie Shrem was arrested for laundering money or ...

R u sure that Vitalik / investors won't be arrested?

Mr Shrek became unstuck because he and his company were dealing with FIAT money.
Shrek even admitted in emails that he knew that the guy he was dealing with was exchanging drug money into and out of bitcoin.
he even overruled his partner who was concerned about money laundering and went out of his way to keep the illicit business..
its all in the indictment.

the Ethereum team are NOT involved in any exchange of Fiat currency they are simply building a new technology which may or may not result in a new market for exchange.

there is no way that this could be construed as money laundering unless the intent was clearly to exchange the proceeds of crime from one form of money to another less traceable form.

so legally (as long as their was no criminal intent) the Ethereum guys are in the clear but as we have already seen, that may not stop the banksters and other powers that be from attacking them.

people who are willing to publicly put their name and face to Crypto inventions are taking a very big risk indeed, but in this day and age of a multiplicity of petty scams it is a necessary burden to give the project legitimacy and credibility.

What happened to Mr Shrek should be a warning to everyone... do not assume the authorities aren't watching.. and do not put your greed for money above your legal and moral duty to obey they law.

Mr Shrek, Mr Shavers and Mr Ulbricht were too greedy.. they will pay for their greed.

no doubt others will soon follow...





KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
ThePatient
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January 31, 2014, 04:27:48 PM
 #1003

I find it highly ironic that the same people who use Bitcoin for philosophical reasons (don't like government involvement in their lives) are happy to run to the government any time they feel they need help or protection.

Seriously? The very same people that argue for deregulation, in favor of Silk Road, against the IRS taxing crypto...are the same people who want to run to the SEC now?

...and you just so happen to know the exact reason why the people in this thread that are saying the SEC will get involved use bitcoins...

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January 31, 2014, 04:32:08 PM
 #1004

Can anybody give a summary what happened to the presale?

I'll sum it up for you

Great potential in this product, but a god-awful IPO was scheduled to begin on the 1st. Seemed awfully greedy on the founders part with the investors taking all the risk. Regardless of if the project failed or not, the founders would still make good money.

However, they have since delayed the IPO (and are hopefully restructuring it, because if they come up with something respectable this thing could really have a future) and so on the 1st there is a tesnet release instead.



+1

The presale investors have to take all the risk of project failure, while the founders take none. Also, the presale investors will get their shares diluted every year by the mining supply coming in from Botnets and cloud mining.



They either weren't ready for logistical reasons and so decided to delay the IPO....or realized that their IPO would come back to haunt them and so are now restructuring it.
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January 31, 2014, 04:54:25 PM
 #1005

So... they are not doing fundraising today, but they are releasing a testnet version?
ThePatient
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January 31, 2014, 04:55:19 PM
 #1006

Correct. Tmrw is only the testnet release. As for the fundraising, I'm sure they'll update with info soon.
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January 31, 2014, 05:01:57 PM
 #1007

do not assume the authorities aren't watching.. and do not put your greed for money above your legal and moral duty to obey they law.

So... what will "your legal and moral duty" be when they tell you that cryptocurrencies are against the law?

+1

The word "greed" is about as objectively defined as the word "fair", and both are used in attempts to manipulate people by inducing feelings of shame and guilt.
Alphi
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January 31, 2014, 05:07:22 PM
 #1008

do not assume the authorities aren't watching.. and do not put your greed for money above your legal and moral duty to obey they law.

So... what will "your legal and moral duty" be when they tell you that cryptocurrencies are against the law?

obey the law or leave the country.. there are plenty of countries in this world, some with very nice beaches....
so far no jurisdiction in the world has banned the use of crypto currencies so that question is purely hypothetical...
what happens to you if you run a ponzi scheme, run a drug trading website or launder money?.. those are not hypothetical questions..


I think you may have misunderstood my comments.. I did not mean obey EVERY law... just the ones that carry serious jail time as punishment.
if the NSA and Edward Snowden have taught us anything it is... "They know what you did last summer"... and its only a matter of time before they act on it.


KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
Alphi
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January 31, 2014, 05:11:48 PM
 #1009

do not assume the authorities aren't watching.. and do not put your greed for money above your legal and moral duty to obey they law.

So... what will "your legal and moral duty" be when they tell you that cryptocurrencies are against the law?

+1

The word "greed" is about as objectively defined as the word "fair", and both are used in attempts to manipulate people by inducing feelings of shame and guilt.

no they are attempts to make you think about your actions before they come back to bite you HARD.
morality is as much about self preservation as it is about collective good.

I do not steal from my neighbors because I know that when they find out they will call the police or come over to my house and smash my windows (or worse), shame and guilt play a very small part in my decision not to do it.

Mr Shrek on the other hand apparently had no understanding of conscience or the implications of his actions.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
rdnkjdi
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January 31, 2014, 05:23:56 PM
 #1010


Haha - yes.  But anybody is allowed to have any stupid opinion on the internet.  Including me.

Crypto is being treated as something different than strictly "not currency" AND different than strictly "currency"

You don't have to pay capital gains unless you pull it out.  Above article I posted.  Etc, etc.  So if/when the SEC will step in is anyone's guess.  I have a very difficult time seeing them stepping in to protect consumers who have intentionally stepped outside of traditional money markets in this situation.

I could be wrong.
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January 31, 2014, 06:55:48 PM
 #1011


Bitcoins are not a currency.

It doesn't matter what YOU think.  Even if bitcoin isn't official currency that approved by gov, PEOPLE choose to use it because they find it more convenient to use than credit cards. That's the power of markets. That's the power of competing currencies.

Who gives a shit what gov says, they don't have power over you or me. They are illusion, to claim you as a part of their slavery.

Varys: Power is a curious thing, my lord. Are you fond of riddles?
Tyrion Lannister: Why, am I about to hear one?
Varys: Three great men sit in a room; a king, a priest and a rich man. Between them stands a common sellsword. Each great man bids the sellsword kill the other two. Who lives, who dies?
Tyrion Lannister: Depends on the sellsword.
Varys: Does it? He has neither crown, nor gold, nor the favour of the gods.
Tyrion Lannister: He has a sword, the power of life and death.
Varys: But if it's swordsmen who rule, why do we pretend kings hold all the power? When Ned Stark lost his head, who was truly responsible? Joffrey? The executioner? Or something else?
Tyrion Lannister: I've decided I don't like riddles.
Varys: Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick, a shadow on the wall, and a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

dmidos
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January 31, 2014, 07:05:36 PM
 #1012


Bitcoins are not a currency.

It doesn't matter what YOU think.  Even if bitcoin isn't official currency that approved by gov, PEOPLE choose to use it because they find it more convenient to use than credit cards. That's the power of markets. That's the power of competing currencies.

Who gives a shit what gov says, they don't have power over you or me. They are illusion, to claim you as a part of their slavery.

Varys: Power is a curious thing, my lord. Are you fond of riddles?
Tyrion Lannister: Why, am I about to hear one?
Varys: Three great men sit in a room; a king, a priest and a rich man. Between them stands a common sellsword. Each great man bids the sellsword kill the other two. Who lives, who dies?
Tyrion Lannister: Depends on the sellsword.
Varys: Does it? He has neither crown, nor gold, nor the favour of the gods.
Tyrion Lannister: He has a sword, the power of life and death.
Varys: But if it's swordsmen who rule, why do we pretend kings hold all the power? When Ned Stark lost his head, who was truly responsible? Joffrey? The executioner? Or something else?
Tyrion Lannister: I've decided I don't like riddles.
Varys: Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick, a shadow on the wall, and a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

The best post I've ever read about crypto currencies!
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January 31, 2014, 07:58:15 PM
 #1013

Quote
Система Ethereum также может быть использована в качестве идентификатора. Такая функция стала бы очень полезной в пиринговых сетях, при азартных играх, использовании рынков предсказаний, фондовых бирж, а также в сфере страхования. Хотя система и создана, чтобы быть чем-то большим, чем валюта, у нее будет своя собственная денежная единица под названием Ether. Валюта будет даваться майнерам, а также служить механизмом, который позволит совершать оплату транзакций. Сначала, продажа валюты будет осуществляться из фондовых резервов, однако позже, начнется ее майнинг. Такая система вызовет модель линейной инфляции.
А нельзя ли подробнее про майнинг? я думаю многим это будет очень интересно Smiley
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January 31, 2014, 08:00:34 PM
 #1014

(sorry 'bout that)                                                                                                 Roll Eyes
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January 31, 2014, 08:18:24 PM
 #1015

Is it me or does the inventor sound like Stephen Hawkings without using a voice box.... Kiss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FDvzj8YX4

ichai
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January 31, 2014, 09:45:04 PM
 #1016

How I can get ethereum coins? Is theirs possible to pow mine?
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January 31, 2014, 10:07:34 PM
 #1017

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.


I want to know the answer to this as well. Yes LeoC is a huge scammer and all around asshole, I get that. What I don't get is why is it ok to completely ignore this valid question solely on that basis? Will just like to let you know, that as a new user, the response to his post didn't have a positive effect on me. I have 5 BTC that I want to invest into something, but everywhere I go there is always something that just doesn't feel right, Ethereum included. So it's no longer the scammer asking the question, it's me. Also I have absolutely no problem with the IPO+premine. The amount of work that the developers have put into this deserves to be rewarded. Also which other developers publicly speak about their cryptocurrency at conventions? Exactly. Look how small Vitalik is, if it ended up being a scam, which is very unlikely, one punch by a disgruntled convention goer would put him in a coma. Besides the nagging issue about security I'm almost convinced to buy into Ethereum.
TinEye
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January 31, 2014, 10:25:59 PM
 #1018

Can anybody give a summary what happened to the presale?

I'll sum it up for you

Great potential in this product, but a god-awful IPO was scheduled to begin on the 1st. Seemed awfully greedy on the founders part with the investors taking all the risk. Regardless of if the project failed or not, the founders would still make good money.

However, they have since delayed the IPO (and are hopefully restructuring it, because if they come up with something respectable this thing could really have a future) and so on the 1st there is a tesnet release instead.



+1

The presale investors have to take all the risk of project failure, while the founders take none. Also, the presale investors will get their shares diluted every year by the mining supply coming in from Botnets and cloud mining.



They either weren't ready for logistical reasons and so decided to delay the IPO....or realized that their IPO would come back to haunt them and so are now restructuring it.

Cheers.

The earlier structure did seem very weighted against the investors.



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January 31, 2014, 10:43:07 PM
 #1019

Pre-investing in alt-coins, now I've seen it all,  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Hey if you guys can sell someone on that, more power to you.

I have a whale I need to sale some water to. Maybe, after this fails, you guys could help me with that, lol.
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January 31, 2014, 11:13:56 PM
 #1020

Pre-investing in alt-coins, now I've seen it all,  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Hey if you guys can sell someone on that, more power to you.

I have a whale I need to sale some water to. Maybe, after this fails, you guys could help me with that, lol.

Things have dramatically changed in the last 12 months my friend. The level of innovation and the dramatic speed at which that innovation is taking place makes it unsurprising that the the coins/platforms that show great/legitimate potential are adopting this model.

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