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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1797418 times)
Ursium
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January 31, 2014, 11:17:31 PM
 #1021

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.


I want to know the answer to this as well. Yes LeoC is a huge scammer and all around asshole, I get that. What I don't get is why is it ok to completely ignore this valid question solely on that basis? Will just like to let you know, that as a new user, the response to his post didn't have a positive effect on me. I have 5 BTC that I want to invest into something, but everywhere I go there is always something that just doesn't feel right, Ethereum included. So it's no longer the scammer asking the question, it's me. Also I have absolutely no problem with the IPO+premine. The amount of work that the developers have put into this deserves to be rewarded. Also which other developers publicly speak about their cryptocurrency at conventions? Exactly. Look how small Vitalik is, if it ended up being a scam, which is very unlikely, one punch by a disgruntled convention goer would put him in a coma. Besides the nagging issue about security I'm almost convinced to buy into Ethereum.


It's a valid question, you're right. There are some risks of course, our best defenses are: 1) the  bounties that will be distributed for security audits, pentest, etc and 2) the relative simplicity of the programming language (less than 50 opcodes, and the c++ VM is circa 200 lines). As Vitalik would say, "The Ethereum language is designed with the need for perfect determinism and consensus in mind." Note that sandboxing is also entirely within the real of possibility and something that they are strongly considering.


Ethereum Twitter: @ethereumproject - Blog: blog.ethereum.org - Forum: forum.ethereum.org - Github: github.com/ethereum
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January 31, 2014, 11:36:01 PM
 #1022

Varys: Power is a curious thing, my lord. Are you fond of riddles?

what a spoiler  Angry
i just started the first book. i hope there is still enough tense left in the stories.
yeah i know everybody saw the series, i didn't. unlucky me.

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January 31, 2014, 11:42:31 PM
 #1023

im exciting...

i build go-ethereum.exe

what do I do now?

anybody here? Smiley

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January 31, 2014, 11:57:25 PM
 #1024

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.


I want to know the answer to this as well. Yes LeoC is a huge scammer and all around asshole, I get that. What I don't get is why is it ok to completely ignore this valid question solely on that basis? Will just like to let you know, that as a new user, the response to his post didn't have a positive effect on me. I have 5 BTC that I want to invest into something, but everywhere I go there is always something that just doesn't feel right, Ethereum included. So it's no longer the scammer asking the question, it's me. Also I have absolutely no problem with the IPO+premine. The amount of work that the developers have put into this deserves to be rewarded. Also which other developers publicly speak about their cryptocurrency at conventions? Exactly. Look how small Vitalik is, if it ended up being a scam, which is very unlikely, one punch by a disgruntled convention goer would put him in a coma. Besides the nagging issue about security I'm almost convinced to buy into Ethereum.


It's a valid question, you're right. There are some risks of course, our best defenses are: 1) the  bounties that will be distributed for security audits, pentest, etc and 2) the relative simplicity of the programming language (less than 50 opcodes, and the c++ VM is circa 200 lines). As Vitalik would say, "The Ethereum language is designed with the need for perfect determinism and consensus in mind." Note that sandboxing is also entirely within the real of possibility and something that they are strongly considering.

So are you saying there will be no protection against the above on release? I'd like a developer to comment. Theoretically I can buy into the IPO and just not run the contracts to avoid security issues right?
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February 01, 2014, 12:02:43 AM
 #1025

So, is it launched?
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February 01, 2014, 12:04:18 AM
 #1026

2014/02/01 02:01:03 Ready and accepting connections

?

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February 01, 2014, 12:09:38 AM
 #1027

I saw somewhere that the fundraiser is postponed. Can anyone confirm?

Sandro Hogan - Bitcoin Sydney (sydneybitcoin.org)
IT Consultant - ITAwareness (itawareness.com.au)
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February 01, 2014, 12:11:18 AM
 #1028

I saw somewhere that the fundraiser is postponed. Can anyone confirm?

confirmed
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February 01, 2014, 12:16:24 AM
 #1029

"compiler and windows binaries coming soon."

when?

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February 01, 2014, 12:30:16 AM
 #1030

Quote
Insert Quote
"compiler and windows binaries coming soon."

Shouldn't be too long. Within the next two weeks without a doubt, most likely sooner.

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February 01, 2014, 12:32:04 AM
 #1031

I saw somewhere that the fundraiser is postponed. Can anyone confirm?

Source?

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February 01, 2014, 12:36:20 AM
 #1032

Here are instructions to compile the binaries:
Sorry for the confusion.

The linux mining guides is correct. However the windows and OSX source code have not been updated.

I will post a guide on my blog to install ubuntu under vmware on linux.

Linux       - http://ethereum-miner.tumblr.com/post/75205573886/linux-ubuntu-install-guide
Windows  - Instructions coming to install ubuntu on windows through vmware so you can get started on windows. Previous Go guide is outdated.
OSX        - Coming soon.

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February 01, 2014, 12:38:54 AM
 #1033

I saw somewhere that the fundraiser is postponed. Can anyone confirm?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ethereum-listens-community-releasing-testnet-174950039.html

>Because we intend on providing an equal opportunity to all those who want to be involved, and are reviewing the relevant logistical and regulatory issues for a fundraiser of this scale, we have decided to postpone the Feb 1 launch of the fundraiser. We will make the announcement of the new fundraiser launch date on our official website: Ethereum.org.
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February 01, 2014, 12:55:23 AM
 #1034

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.
If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.
I want to know the answer to this as well. Yes LeoC is a huge scammer and all around asshole, I get that. What I don't get is why is it ok to completely ignore this valid question solely on that basis? Will just like to let you know, that as a new user, the response to his post didn't have a positive effect on me. I have 5 BTC that I want to invest into something, but everywhere I go there is always something that just doesn't feel right, Ethereum included. So it's no longer the scammer asking the question, it's me. Also I have absolutely no problem with the IPO+premine. The amount of work that the developers have put into this deserves to be rewarded. Also which other developers publicly speak about their cryptocurrency at conventions? Exactly. Look how small Vitalik is, if it ended up being a scam, which is very unlikely, one punch by a disgruntled convention goer would put him in a coma. Besides the nagging issue about security I'm almost convinced to buy into Ethereum.

It's a valid question, you're right. There are some risks of course, our best defenses are: 1) the  bounties that will be distributed for security audits, pentest, etc and 2) the relative simplicity of the programming language (less than 50 opcodes, and the c++ VM is circa 200 lines). As Vitalik would say, "The Ethereum language is designed with the need for perfect determinism and consensus in mind." Note that sandboxing is also entirely within the real of possibility and something that they are strongly considering.
an answer from Vitalik or the development team would be greatly appreciated so to put any such worries to bed.
 
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February 01, 2014, 12:56:12 AM
 #1035

I have been looking and can't find anything to answer my question, even though it's buried somewhere I'm sure. Can anyone just tell me when I can by ether, or if I already can?
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February 01, 2014, 12:59:01 AM
 #1036

Thank you guys for trying out the C++ client and its GUI, AlephZero.

Note that all technical (build, bugs) questions will be better answered on the forum at:
http://forum.ethereum.org/categories/code-and-builds

Source code at: https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum
Instructions on how to build the client: https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum/wiki/Building
Instruction on how to operate the client: https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum/wiki/Using-Ethereum-CLI-Client
Instruction on how to run the local testnet: https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum/wiki/Ethereum-Local-Test-Net

Ethereum Twitter: @ethereumproject - Blog: blog.ethereum.org - Forum: forum.ethereum.org - Github: github.com/ethereum
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February 01, 2014, 01:06:40 AM
 #1037

Quote
I want to know the answer to this as well. Yes LeoC is a huge scammer and all around asshole, I get that. What I don't get is why is it ok to completely ignore this valid question solely on that basis? Will just like to let you know, that as a new user, the response to his post didn't have a positive effect on me. I have 5 BTC that I want to invest into something, but everywhere I go there is always something that just doesn't feel right, Ethereum included. So it's no longer the scammer asking the question, it's me. Also I have absolutely no problem with the IPO+premine. The amount of work that the developers have put into this deserves to be rewarded. Also which other developers publicly speak about their cryptocurrency at conventions? Exactly. Look how small Vitalik is, if it ended up being a scam, which is very unlikely, one punch by a disgruntled convention goer would put him in a coma. Besides the nagging issue about security I'm almost convinced to buy into Ethereum.

As a cryptographer, security is pretty much the thing that consumes me on a daily basis. We are currently focused on streamlining the development process, onboarding devs and getting overall operations efficient. Once we are on some better PMS systems and have everyone SCRUMed, I'll be building a security team to start the long process of developing the sandbox with me.

We follow checklist driven development in a certain respect thus events must occur prior to the value chain being released. On the security side, a full pre and post code audit, pen test bounties and exploration of many different security models from running the sandbox on a VM like Docker to things like signed contracts. We are early in the process and thus have the freedom and resources to explore many options. The good news is that java, .net and V8 have provided many great lessons to us new projects not having the indignity of legacy code and we are working hard to include the community in the development process. 

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February 01, 2014, 01:31:38 AM
 #1038

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.


I want to know the answer to this as well. Yes LeoC is a huge scammer and all around asshole, I get that. What I don't get is why is it ok to completely ignore this valid question solely on that basis? Will just like to let you know, that as a new user, the response to his post didn't have a positive effect on me. I have 5 BTC that I want to invest into something, but everywhere I go there is always something that just doesn't feel right, Ethereum included. So it's no longer the scammer asking the question, it's me. Also I have absolutely no problem with the IPO+premine. The amount of work that the developers have put into this deserves to be rewarded. Also which other developers publicly speak about their cryptocurrency at conventions? Exactly. Look how small Vitalik is, if it ended up being a scam, which is very unlikely, one punch by a disgruntled convention goer would put him in a coma. Besides the nagging issue about security I'm almost convinced to buy into Ethereum.


It's a valid question, you're right. There are some risks of course, our best defenses are: 1) the  bounties that will be distributed for security audits, pentest, etc and 2) the relative simplicity of the programming language (less than 50 opcodes, and the c++ VM is circa 200 lines). As Vitalik would say, "The Ethereum language is designed with the need for perfect determinism and consensus in mind." Note that sandboxing is also entirely within the real of possibility and something that they are strongly considering.

So are you saying there will be no protection against the above on release? I'd like a developer to comment. Theoretically I can buy into the IPO and just not run the contracts to avoid security issues right?

Dev here (not android dev, elsewhere for +25 years though):
i wanna invest, thinking of 1 btc, but,,

yeah, a full language concerns me bigtime.
next thing you know
- some script kiddie invents a virus on Ethereum
- someone finds a 0-day, buffer overrun, whatever, that's reported but not patched fast enough, releases that after a month or so... (then kiddies/nigerians/whomever take off from that)
- anyone thought of a f'n botnet from within?

The best thing to do is release some subset of whatever programming language (especially the calculations), and expand that over time.
- check buffers for overruns
- resistant about io functions
-Don't implement a full framework (prg language)..

I wonder what other devs can think of next....



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February 01, 2014, 01:41:12 AM
 #1039

Here are instructions to compile the binaries:

For Windows  -- http://ethereum-miner.tumblr.com/post/75200252875/windows-ethereum-client
For OSX   --  http://ethereum-miner.tumblr.com/post/75201773371/osx-guide-to-installing-and-compiling-a-binary-for-osx
For Linux (Ubuntu) -- http://ethereum-miner.tumblr.com/post/75205573886/linux-ubuntu-install-guide

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February 01, 2014, 02:03:02 AM
 #1040

onboarding devs


if only it were possible to put together this developer dream team:
Vitalik
Satoshi
Sunny King (peercoin, primecoin)
BcNext (nxt)
Fuserleer (emunie)
Javier (bitcloud)


and I'm sure you'd have the best possible protocol within a couple of months ;P
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