[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[organizer]

Holy crap these Ethereum threads have devolved. Probably not going to get any more good discussions.

Most people are here to make money. Whether that's through mining or trading or even creating their own coins.

Gutshot in your posts about the ground-breaking Klondike coin a phrase gets used over and over again, let the free market run it's course. So why not just STFU and let it happen. Thank god we have Klondike coins or Kitteh coins instead of Ethereum.

First, if you think Bitcoin is IT in terms of crypto, why bother trolling here. You aren't going to change anyone's mind if they are interested in this or any other project.

There will be a "next big thing" in terms of crypto. In my small mind, whatever that might be will meet certain criteria. But crypto is at a point now where it's beginning to consume itself with the amount of crap coins that are coming out. At some point the music stops.

Is Ethereum going to be the next big thing? I dunno. Could it be a scam? Sure.

There are other projects like Eth I think, trying to evolve crypto to something else so if you don't like Eth, look somewhere else. But I do know that the future of Crypto isn't all these crap coins that we're all mining & trading right now. The market we have now is a hairs width away from nothing more than a game of musical chairs with few coins that have legit longevity.

You can say you "believe" in Klondike or some other clone coin, but the reality is most everyone here is trying to accumulate and sell for a profit. I doubt in 2 months you'll hold any of the coins from your other posts. So stop trying to come off as everyone's white knight.

Anyways, back to Eth. I have no idea if i would invest or not at this point. If I do, i would know going in it's complete speculation and would be with an amount I could either mine for or trade for in a relatively short amount of time. If anyone's investing by maxing out a credit card or using rent, then they deserve to get punished.

But for those that do, it's investing in a startup. I've been in the tech world since the dot com bubble and you'd be surprised at the valuations that are still given to 1 and 2 man "companies" today. Money will always chase an idea in the hopes that it might be the next disruptive "thing". Most aren't. But the money will always chase it.

Spoiler alert: $36mil in terms of startup investing is not a shocking amount.

Maybe they'll deliver, maybe they won't. Who cares who invests in it.

[1714229994]

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[1714229994]

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[1714229994]

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[gutshot5820]

Federal Legislation
Thanks in part to the Crowdfunding exemption movement, the JOBS Act was signed into law by President Obama on April 5, 2012. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has been given approximately 270 days to set forth specific rules and guidelines that enact this legislation, while also ensuring the protection of investors.[65] Some rules have already been proposed by the SEC.[66][67]
The bill went through a number of amendments and on April 5, 2012 President Barack Obama signed the JOBS Act into law.[68] The legislation mandates that funding portals must register with the SEC as well as an applicable self-regulatory organization to operate.[69]
The JOBS Act places limits on the value of securities issuer may offer and individuals can invest through crowdfunding intermediaries. An issuer may sell up to $1,000,000 of its securities per 12 months, and, depending upon their net worth and income, investors will be permitted to invest up to $100,000 in crowdfunding issues per 12 months.[70] An independent financial statement review by a CPA firm is required for raises $100,000–500,000 and an independent financial statement audit by a CPA firm is required for raises over $500,000.[71]
The SEC is now drafting regulations to implement the equity and debt crowdfunding provisions of the bill. The original deadline for regulations is in January 2013.[67][72][dated info] In parallel to the SEC regulations, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) is creating additional rules related to member firms engaged in crowdfunding.[69]
On October 23, 2013, the SEC unanimously approved the progress of the crowdfunding bill and SEC commissioners explained that the commission's goals are to ease online fundraising for small companies and fraud protection for investors. As of the date of approval, the proposal is open for public comment for a 90-day period that is followed by another SEC vote to enable the enactment of the proposal.[73]

[_ingsoc]

Bitcoin was revolution that changed the world, these guys are just hopping on the train and taking advantage of the Bitcoin community while crypto coins are still hot.  It's obvious you are a tech nerd and like the work these guys are doing, but if they can't get money from a bank or venture capitalist, and need to beg to Bitcoin community to fund their project, while having no initial investment of their own, that sends warnings bells through my head.  You have a right to your opinion, if you like then so much, go ahead and invest 100k and be an early adopter. If they were were asking for a few million to fund for expenses and a %percentage of pre-mine to reward them if things work out, then I would be behind this.  But the mere fact that they are asking for up to 36 million is just ridiculous on an entirely different greedy level.  

So anything that uses any idea involved with Bitcoin in any way is ripping people off? That's what you're telling me. And I'll have you know I'm not a tech nerd. I have rock hard abs and bed thousands of women weekly. I just happen to be taking a break from all that sex to correct someone spreading FUD on the Internet. The facts: (1) we don't know if they got money from a bank or venture capitalist, (2) crowd contributions != begging, (3) we don't know what they have in store (in detail) with regards to expenses, but we know that will be made public.

Also, give them a damn minute to get all this information to you. We're on the Internet and the connection speeds can be slow.

[organizer]

these guys are just hopping on the train and taking advantage of the Bitcoin community while crypto coins are still hot. 

WTF. why are you even involved in alt-coins then, they're pretty much all pump & dumps (nothing against it, but at least i'm honest with myself).

[gutshot5820]

Under the proposed SEC rules, issuers who intend to conduct a crowdfunding offering are required to file certain information with the SEC and provide this information to investors, potential investors and the crowdfunding intermediary that they'll be using — there are many vying for dominance, but Kickstarter is a popular example.

In addition, an issuer — for our purposes, let's think of them as a startup company, but other groups will get involved — is required under the proposed rules to prepare and file a Form C on EDGAR (the Electronic Data-Gathering, Analysis, and Retrieval system, which is used by those required by law to file forms with the SEC) before the offering commencement. Among other things, Form C requires the reporting to the SEC of the following:

information on the issuer, directors and officers, owners (if they own 20 percent or more of the issuer),
business plan,
intended use of proceeds,
targeted offering amounts,
offering price and how it was determined,
information about the intermediary being used,
and additional information set forth in the proposed rules.
The implementing rules also require disclosure of certain information not required by the JOBS Act, such as the number of current employees of the issuer, risk factors relating to the offering, the issuers of debt position and related party transactions, among other information.

The SEC's implementing rules follow the original statutory framework and require an equity crowdfunding issuer to provide the following financial information:

For offerings of $100,000 or less, US GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles) financial statements for the two most recently completed fiscal years or shorter period during which the issuer has been operating as well as filed income tax returns for the most recently completed fiscal year.
For offerings between $100,000 and $500,000, CPA reviewed US GAAP financial statements along with the CPA's review report; and for offerings over $500,000, CPA audited US GAAP financial statements.
An issuer, like a tech startup, would also be required to provide a narrative discussion of its financial condition covering, among other things, historic results of operations and liquidity and capital resources. In many respects, this is similar to a MD&A (Management Discussion and Analysis, which provides a narrative explanation, through the eyes of management, of how an entity has performed in the past, its financial condition, and its future prospects), but is not intended to be as lengthy or detailed.

The proposed regulations also require each issuer to do the following:

file with the SEC and post to its website an annual report within 120 days of the end of each fiscal year that discloses information about ongoing business and capital-raising activities.
In addition, issuers are restricted in their ability to advertise their crowdfunding offering only through a print or electronic notice containing specific limited information.
The notice must direct potential investors to the crowdfunding intermediary platform being utilized, where these investors could then access additional information about the offering.
However, under the proposed rules, there would be no restriction on an issuer's ability to communicate with investors or potential investors on the intermediary's platform, or make communications that do not refer to the terms of the offering. For example, an issuer can advertise its products or services so long as it does not refer to its crowdfunding offering in the advertisement.
The SEC's proposed rules clarify issues arising from the $1 million capital raise maximum prescribed by Congress in Title III of the JOBS Act as well as the per investor maximums. Under the proposed rules, only securities sold in the crowdfunding offering would count toward an issuer's $1 million capital raise maximum. The proposed rules also permit crowdfunding issuers to rely on the efforts of crowdfunding intermediaries to determine whether an investor has reached the per investor limits prescribed by Title III of the JOBS Act.

[gutshot5820]

According to US Law, you can't just offer a crowdfunding of this type without filing the proper legal paperwork.  This is a free market, but there are rules in place to prevent companies from defrauding their investors. Where is all the paperwork that is required?  This technically could be construed as an entirely illegal enterprise and all the funds seized.

[gutshot5820]

The Senate's Amendments:

Crowdfund investing may occur only through SEC approved crowdfunding platforms.
Business would be able to raise no more than $1 million per year through approved crowdfunding platforms. Additionally, crowdfund investors will be limited in their investments based on their income, leaving some investors unable to invest more than $2,000 via crowdfunding.

[_ingsoc]

According to US Law, you can't just offer a crowdfunding of this type without filing the proper legal paperwork.  This is a free market, but there are rules in place to prevent companies from defrauding their investors. Where is all the paperwork that is required?  This technically could be construed as an entirely illegal enterprise and all the funds seized.

(1) They're in Canada. (2) They're not selling equity.

[kovand11]

What happens, if the founders also 'invest' in their own company? It costs them exactly nothing, and reduce the share of the other investors.
The investors must know exactly what they get for their money.

[gutshot5820]

According to US Law, you can't just offer a crowdfunding of this type without filing the proper legal paperwork.  This is a free market, but there are rules in place to prevent companies from defrauding their investors. Where is all the paperwork that is required?  This technically could be construed as an entirely illegal enterprise and all the funds seized.

(1) They're in Canada. (2) They're not selling equity.

Canada, but asking for US investors.  Also, I'm sure there are rules that apply for this level of funding that is on a whole different level.  I'm pretty sure they have to file with the SEC and provide ten times more documentation for the dollar amounts they are requesting.  Also, Canada has very restrictive crowdfunding laws to prevent this type of investment where transparency is almost non-existent,

[_ingsoc]

What happens, if the founders also 'invest' in their own company? It costs them exactly nothing, and reduce the share of the other investors.
The investors must know exactly what they get for their money.

Quoting from vbuterin (Vitalik) on Reddit:

"The organization will absolutely not attempt to increase its reserve by investing BTC into its own fundraiser."

[gutshot5820]

According to US law the maximum this company can raise is  in crowdfunding is one million.  Their alternative is Regulation A and allows for up to 50 million and is required to fully register with the SEC and have full and detailed disclosure.

On top of all this, Ethereum is trying to pass this off as an offical IPO.  They are probably breaking multitudes of laws with the SEC, that directly has restrictions placed on these types of offerings in order to prevent fraud.  Anyone that asks for 36 million from the public without filing the proper paperwork with USA and Canada law is operating illegally.  This is a free market, but rules are in place to protect the average joe from fraudsters that try to avoid transparency at all costs.

[turtoro]

According to US Law, you can't just offer a crowdfunding of this type without filing the proper legal paperwork.  This is a free market, but there are rules in place to prevent companies from defrauding their investors. Where is all the paperwork that is required?  This technically could be construed as an entirely illegal enterprise and all the funds seized.

(1) They're in Canada. (2) They're not selling equity.

Canada, but asking for US investors.  Also, I'm sure there are rules that apply for this level of funding that is on a whole different level.  I'm pretty sure they have to file with the SEC and provide ten times more documentation for the dollar amounts they are requesting.  Also, Canada has very restrictive crowdfunding laws to prevent this type of investment where transparency is almost non-existent,

Right, because the sec has oversight authority over US citizens investing abroad

Who is to say they are incorporated in Canada? If they are smart they went through another jurisdiction.

I still havent made up my mind on this project but your shameless shilling is annoying

[tk808]

What happens, if the founders also 'invest' in their own company? It costs them exactly nothing, and reduce the share of the other investors.
The investors must know exactly what they get for their money.

Quoting from vbuterin (Vitalik) on Reddit:

"The organization will absolutely not attempt to increase its reserve by investing BTC into its own fundraiser."

The developers will not, but third parties that are associated with the project (behind the scenes) will.

Get ready for the most insane IPO funding ever

[miKnutty]

so is there a scrypt release for mining ? when is that date?

[marcusnz]

You are crazy off in your calculations, 36 million to support how many guys for how many years and that is not excessive?  We are living in two different worlds because I'm sure any venture capitalist would tell these guys to blow off if they presented them with the investment numbers they are asking from the public.  You are acting as if this coin will actually survive in the long run.  Every coin forum I have been to has a group of devs that think they have the best and innovative tech.  You know what?  There will be more coins and even better tech next month from the next group and so on and so on.  If ANY coin survived in the long run it would make a 100M investment look cheap, that is a very lame apologist explanation.  The chances of any coin to surviving besides bitcoin after the crypto hype is over is slim to none.  This coin and every coin before and after it is a long long long shot to survive when the crypto hype dies.  You can take all the technology you want and nobody cares except for tech nerds.  The only thing people care about in coins is the ability to transfer money anonymously and liquidity liquidity liquidity.  What good is a coin if you cant cash it out, I dont care what tech is behind it.

You're right. We should never think of anything ever again. This is the furthest humanity will ever go, and we've reached it. Let's shut down everything. Ideas are scary, and they're risky, and that's why we do them. I think it's cool that these guys are at least trying to do something interesting. That's all there is to it. It's novel, they're delivering code, and they're open about things. That's cool to me.

Bitcoin was revolution that changed the world, these guys are just hopping on the train and taking advantage of the Bitcoin community while crypto coins are still hot.  It's obvious you are a tech nerd and like the work these guys are doing, but if they can't get money from a bank or venture capitalist, and need to beg to Bitcoin community to fund their project, while having no initial investment of their own, that sends warnings bells through my head.  You have a right to your opinion, if you like then so much, go ahead and invest 100k and be an early adopter. If they were were asking for a few million to fund for expenses and a %percentage of pre-mine to reward them if things work out, then I would be behind this.  But the mere fact that they are asking for up to 36 million is just ridiculous on an entirely different greedy level.  

If a company or government wants to utilize this emerging cc/blockchain technology, and they can basically chose which blockchain/coin they want to build on, why would they choose Ethereum? Isnt it quite possible when it is released and is potentially much easier to build upon than bitcoin, ripples etc that it will be heavily adopted and may make up ground rapidly? But then whats stopping bitcoin or others using their advantageous work and implementing into their protocol? (side note: also, isnt it conceivable that people could start building on the dogecoin blockchain?) All these "ifs" make the ipo price a little crazy imo, but then i dont know shit. Im interested in economics and the histroy of money and really like this new technology, but dont really understand it despite doing my best to learn about it, including watching a few vids with Vitalik. Having watched these vids, and confident that ive always had a really good "gut brain" and high level of EI, Id say he doesnt appear to me at all as someone who wants to wrong anyone let alone rip people off for greed. In fact, he donest strike me as someone who is likely to care about money much at all, certainly not at the expense of his reputation which is on the line so early in his career.

I cant see myelf investing at this stage.

[_ingsoc]

Right, because the sec has oversight authority over US citizens investing abroad

Who is to say they are incorporated in Canada? If they are smart they went through another jurisdiction.

I still havent made up my mind on this project but your shameless shilling is annoying

They're also not selling equity. They're selling digital coins on the Internet that have no inherent value. It's friggin' software. We also don't know what the exact offer is. If that's illegal, we need to shut down all of Bitcointalk. This gutshot5820 user is quoting random laws that have no application here and making wild threats to scare people - God only knows why.

[hostmaster]

cool project

[Armando]

Interesting project. The only thing I could not understand - what exactly is starting today? )) I've seen before this date marked as official start of project, but the IPO will be in 1 week only, so what will be today then? )))

[_ingsoc]

Interesting project. The only thing I could not understand - what exactly is starting today? )) I've seen before this date marked as official start of project, but the IPO will be in 1 week only, so what will be today then? )))

My understanding is that the timer that counted to today launched the web site and information about the people behind it. They made a thread here.