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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1584808 times)
td services
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January 28, 2014, 01:21:57 AM
 #561

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!
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tk808
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January 28, 2014, 01:27:43 AM
 #562

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!

Just shows the level of incompetence of their public relations team. Whenever you ask for 30,000btc, you better have an air tight reason why, otherwise, piss off.

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January 28, 2014, 01:32:09 AM
 #563

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!
I'm glad that those things were brought up in this thread. Too bad for ethereum itself.. The whole project may be ruined because of bad IPO. VB should reconsider this fundraising plan and start over again.

BTW I haven't seen any of the ether devs clarifying ppl concerns .Did they suddenly gave up on this thread?
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January 28, 2014, 01:38:59 AM
 #564

I really think they should delay the IPO and reevaluate. It's clear that a significant portion of the community has issues with the current structure.


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January 28, 2014, 01:44:39 AM
 #565

I really think they should delay the IPO and reevaluate. It's clear that a significant portion of the community has issues with the current structure.

Definitely. I doubt they will though because they probably spoke of this structure at the miami conference, and so don't want to go back on that.

But the thing is, I bet a lot of people would invest if this distribution was different. The technology really does seem like crypto 2.0....but that greed, good god....

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January 28, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
 #566

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!
I'm glad that those things were brought up in this thread. Too bad for ethereum itself.. The whole project may be ruined because of bad IPO. VB should reconsider this whole investing idea and start over again.

BTW I haven't seen any of the ether founders clarifying any doubts. Did they suddenly lost they faith in this project?

VB doesn't even care about this thread. He hasn't been on since the 25th. You'd think they would show more commitment then that

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January 28, 2014, 01:45:26 AM
 #567

I am officially out of investing during the IPO.  This is just too much BS for me. I'll (maybe) buy them for much cheaper when mining starts

+1



Get ETH @ 75% discount

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January 28, 2014, 01:50:55 AM
 #568

I am officially out of investing during the IPO.  This is just too much BS for me. I'll (maybe) buy them for much cheaper when mining starts

+1



+!

Exactly, by the public reaction you can tell that this will be way undersold.  They will unload millions of shares onto the public to pay obligatory commitments, the shares that were designated for pre-sale.  They will initially sink to the price that the market will accept.  The benefit will be that, you will signal to wall street that the bitcoin community will not be taken advantage of and you cannot gouge the miners and crypto investors.  
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January 28, 2014, 02:04:08 AM
 #569

I really like the idea behind this and it may very well be the future, but I can't imagine why you guys are begging for bitcoins in order to create a better version of bitcoin. If you guys lack the motivation and the skills to create this without a $35,000,000 hand out, there are many other people who will be more than happy to do this without you.

10/10 for the most ambitious ploy to get my bitcoins.
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January 28, 2014, 02:55:05 AM
 #570

Let's start a new ethereum. I'm down.

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January 28, 2014, 03:19:24 AM
 #571

I don't have opinion yet.

But did any of you see the post by the guy who attended the Miami conference?

He clearly stated that the 30,000 BTC was a self imposed cap on fund raising.  It was not the amount they're claiming they need.

He clearly stated that V named 500 BTC as what they actually need.  If they have that, they can continue with the project.

Stop saying they're demanding 30,000 BTC from investors.  Apparently its not factual.  Or its lacking some information.

If this became a 500 BTC IPO .... would that make people happier? 

---------------------

I need some clarification please. 

Lets say someone invests 10 BTC ...

Why does everyone say they won't get much ROI?  I realize its going to gradually decrease in value, but this seems bewildering to me. 

Nobody is going to invest in something declared ahead of time to decrease in value.  So there's information missing from this response as well.

Someone said you *might* double your money after a few years.  Is that really the likely outcome?  I probably would save my $10,000 in BTC for something else if I have to wait 3-5 years for it to go to a whopping $20,000.  I would appreciate a response to this from someone who actually understands the system.  That eliminates 90% of people in this thread.

-B-

Bitcoin's true purpose defined in Satoshi's message on the Genesis Block:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
View it on the Blockchain | Genesis Block Newspaper Copies
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January 28, 2014, 03:38:19 AM
 #572

^Well for one, do you really think that when mining starts and trading on exchanges happen, that the price will be .1btc for 100 ethers?

Probably not. I highly doubt it will start that high. Right there, you lose money.
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January 28, 2014, 03:40:45 AM
 #573

I don't have opinion yet.

But did any of you see the post by the guy who attended the Miami conference?

He clearly stated that the 30,000 BTC was a self imposed cap on fund raising.  It was not the amount they're claiming they need.

He clearly stated that V named 500 BTC as what they actually need.  If they have that, they can continue with the project.

Stop saying they're demanding 30,000 BTC from investors.  Apparently its not factual.  Or its lacking some information.

If this became a 500 BTC IPO .... would that make people happier? 

It does not matter because there are a number of people who want to run this project to the ground with complete misinformation. They will stick to their claim of 30,000 BTC and 36 million dollars paying no heed to others. They twist every little piece of information that has been listed with their lies and have completely infected this thread. People who are too lazy to read the original posts or comprehend it correctly buy into their lies.

If you like this project you are either a "HUGE" investor, or scum of the earth or a wall street stooge or your are simply getting paid to mislead people. They will bully, intimidate and abuse you until you no longer give a shit about clearing this misinformation. If you want information on this project this is no longer the thread to seek, look for information on their official website and forum, you might be able to decide if you want to invest or not to.

I have no problem with the opinion that the founders are asking for too much (BTC and premine share) but the numbers being thrown around has become the theater of absurd.
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January 28, 2014, 03:43:04 AM
 #574

I need some clarification please.  

Lets say someone invests 10 BTC ...

Why does everyone say they won't get much ROI?  I realize its going to gradually decrease in value, but this seems bewildering to me.  

Nobody is going to invest in something declared ahead of time to decrease in value.  So there's information missing from this response as well.

Someone said you *might* double your money after a few years.  Is that really the likely outcome?  I probably would save my $10,000 in BTC for something else if I have to wait 3-5 years for it to go to a whopping $20,000.  I would appreciate a response to this from someone who actually understands the system.  That eliminates 90% of people in this thread.

-B-

1) This is Crypto-currency. It's either death or an immediate high valuation. Especially for a technically superior currency. There is so much risk involved, and by pumping 2000-5000usd worth of BTC there better be a pretty fucking good ROI for the chance that was taken. Just like NXT. Would you invest in NXT now? Fuck yeah you would. but those early adopters invested petty amounts of btc. .001btc .0001btc... etc. go look it up

2) The amount given per btc is underwhelming to say the least. ETH is generated by X amount of BTC gained through the IPO, great i support IPOs, so do most people.


The flaws:


  a) They are valuing eth at an extreme price. 1000-2000ETH per btc. @ 30-60million at launch, and forever increasing to hundreds of millions... billions at the mysterous .4% which means .4% of 100%? or 40%? Your initial investment of 1000usd = 1btc gained you 2000eth. 2000eth???

You would be better off buying eth at an exchange. These valuations are absured. This model would work if eth was a 10billion-1000billion dollar market cap.
 
  b) What happens after the IPO. ETH gets to be mined. So immediately, your investment devalues the minutes eth launches, due to more market supply. The massive whales are going to send their 1000 tera hashes and completely nuke the hell out of ETH.


3) Eth has a lot of potential. No one is undermining their technical achievements, i love technical achievements and fully support them in the crypto space. The flaw is the distribution IPO and the transparency in the project.

Who is funding this? Goldmandicks? Who decided on the IPO scheme? ....

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January 28, 2014, 04:21:58 AM
 #575

and for fucks sake can the devs properly explain where they pulled their IPO numbers from? Their ass, thin air?

Please, vitalik, explain to me how and why you decided upon a 1000 - 2000 ether per BTC ratio for these upcoming 60 days.

If I get a good response, maybe I'll invest

And please don't say that the price doesn't matter, only the percentage that you own. If so, I still want to know how the decision was made to price ETH where it is at.
The actual number of Ether you get per BTC is completely inconsequential. They are going to adjust the total number of Ether to be produced based on the amount of BTC received from the IPO. IPO investers will own 50% of all Ether 1 year from the start of mining. Miners will own 25%, and there will be 25% distributed between the founders, a long term expense reserve and bounties. Every year after that, mining will add .4 * (Ether awarded to IPO investors).

There are plenty of reasons to be cautious about investing in Ethereum, but this is not one of them. Would you really feel better if you had 10,000 ether instead of 2000, but the supply was 5x greater? In terms of ROI, it won't make any difference.


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January 28, 2014, 04:28:44 AM
 #576

1 ether = 10^18 wei
1 btc = 10^8 satoshi
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January 28, 2014, 05:00:38 AM
 #577

Ok, that is fine and all good and dandy.

My question though for the devs is this: How exactly did they settle upon a ratio of between 1000 - 2000 Ethers per BTC?  I am curious as to that rational, that's all. Why not 100-200 ethers per btc? or 10000 - 20000 ethers per BTC? What was the reasoning?

probably because its closer to todays dollar amount.

you don't want one ether being worth $1000 at least not initially because there will always be some ill informed people who will be turned away from investing based on the price alone.

conversely you don't want the value of Ether to be too small either because then it would create too much dust and be too hard to manage.
extremely low prices also add unnecessary volatility to the market (see penny stocks as an example)

1 ether being worth 50c - $1 is much more in line with a small cap IPO price.

if your going to hand out 10,000 ETH for every 1 BTC then you might as well call them DOGE COIN 2.0 or Zimbabwe Dollars 2.0


KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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January 28, 2014, 05:15:39 AM
 #578

hmm, seems logical
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January 28, 2014, 05:26:40 AM
 #579

Ok, that is fine and all good and dandy.

My question though for the devs is this: How exactly did they settle upon a ratio of between 1000 - 2000 Ethers per BTC?  I am curious as to that rational, that's all. Why not 100-200 ethers per btc? or 10000 - 20000 ethers per BTC? What was the reasoning?

probably because its closer to todays dollar amount.

you don't want one ether being worth $1000 at least not initially because there will always be some ill informed people who will be turned away from investing based on the price alone.

conversely you don't want the value of Ether to be too small either because then it would create too much dust and be too hard to manage.
extremely low prices also add unnecessary volatility to the market (see penny stocks as an example)

1 ether being worth 50c - $1 is much more in line with a small cap IPO price.

if your going to hand out 10,000 ETH for every 1 BTC then you might as well call them DOGE COIN 2.0 or Zimbabwe Dollars 2.0



1 Ether = $1 is ridiculous, especially when you consider fees.  You will pay $1 per Ether but that will immediately be worth $.5 per Ether because of 50% founder premine and further devaluation from mining in the first year.  It's a shitty way to do things. Also, I wouldn't piss on the dogecoin community unless you want the Jamaican Bobsled team knocking on your door.
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January 28, 2014, 05:41:59 AM
 #580

1 Ether = $1 is ridiculous, especially when you consider fees.  You will pay $1 per Ether but that will immediately be worth $.5 per Ether because of 50% founder premine and further devaluation from mining in the first year.  It's a shitty way to do things. Also, I wouldn't piss on the dogecoin community unless you want the Jamaican Bobsled team knocking on your door.

firstly: to avoid making yourself look like an idiotic troll in the future I would advise reading the white paper BEFORE commenting.
the so called "pre mined coins" are the Ether that you are purchasing at the IPO. the so called "founders" end up with only a few percent of the coins over time. the initial distribution model was chosen to be broader than that of Bitcoin.

secondly: DOGE coin was intended to NOT to be taken seriously so why do you taking comments about DOGE seriously?

thirdly: the Jamaican Bob sled team are welcome at my house but unfortunately my house is a bit far from Jamaica and Sochi, perhaps you could organise a fund raiser to fund their flights here?  

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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