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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1308296 times)
BitcoinForumator
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January 26, 2014, 07:57:58 PM
 #401

Vitalik is a 19 y.o. child - IQ is irrelevant here, he can be gamed very easily...

Bill Gates founded Micro$oft at 20. Say what you will about Microsoft and its collusion with power structures... Investing on day 1 might have been a good  move,  had you had the opportunity to do so... Which of the frontrunners in this space...Etherium, Mastercoin, NXT, Invictus... which are currency, smart property solutions, and which are distributed OS?
I have invested in all of them and I will invest in Ethereum too, only difference is I know I invest to Google or Microsoft here...

No anarcho/will change the world illusions!

Klee, would you mind saying ratios of your investing into Mastercoin, NXT, BitShares and Ethereum?

I have no agenda behind this other than to get another perspective for my own investing.

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January 26, 2014, 08:11:17 PM
 #402

Genesis block was still under construction the next day according to posts in NXT thread. Indeterminate when it was started, but if the coin that went in while I was waiting for an answer was included, then mine could have been as well.

Again, the math: presale price = 21 BTC/1,000,000,000 NXT = 0.000000021
                       price when first offered in NXT sale thread = 1,000,000 NXT/BTC = .000001

                      .000001/.000000021 = 47.62 = 4762% increase in price

If you bought right after the genesis block at 0.000001, it'd be worth 0.000085/0.000001 = 85 = 8500% increase in price.

So the initial stakeholders actually made most of their gains after the fundraiser... which meant that NXT was already released and anyone could buy in with less risk.

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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January 26, 2014, 08:21:15 PM
 #403

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Ok, thanks. Pretty important that this gets pointed out. Smiley
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January 26, 2014, 08:22:12 PM
 #404

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.
Wait, aren't miners the ones "printing" the money?  How is bitcoin mining different from Ethereum mining in that sense if the Ethereum inflation goes to the miners?

Bitcoin inflation (and Ethereum apparently) will eventually stop. Fiat money never does.
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January 26, 2014, 08:32:28 PM
 #405

I had a longer reply written up...but you know what it slowly became an angry post so I'll start simple...

I read your whitepaper, I've followed the news, I planned on investing...

So someone please explain to me, why a startup with no demo, beta, product, requires 30 million dollars (30000 btc) and 50% of the currency?

Its a currency, not a product, but sure...lets call it a product. Google didn't ask you for 30 million dollars and say you can only use our search engine 50% of the time or you only get every other result for your searches?

...30000 btc which can be ALOT more than 30 million dollars even by the time they launch (if we're following the overall trend) AND 50% of all coins owned?

Common people...

The money is for devs and the team?

Well this is my informal application....I'm a soft eng.... I'd like to become an insta millionaire please? even before we have a product.

Guys we're NOT doing this for the profit we just believe so much in what we're making. ( I hope I get hired)

it seems some people underestimate the project size and real goals ethereum is after for.
this is not a currency, looking at it as it if were, gives a wrong perpective what is going
on here. ethereum tries to built a global, decentralized financial grid layer, populated by
semi autonomous code-reactors, hibernating within the blockchain until wakeup and acting as
more or less maintenance free financial servants when feeded with the appropiate value.
and you wonder why some old school entities are more than interested in this tech?
the first mover, able to access a global finance api (boiled down to what it is) gains
huge profit margins. a 30m usd invest is nothing compared to those margins but this tech
raises some other important questions, besides the pure tech ones.

as a nxt deveopler i am working on a similar approach but with a focus on decentralized
applications and there is a good change nxt will run the first usefull prototype within
the blockchain in a couple of weeks. but as mentioned above, applications should serve
all users, not only entities with the biggest pocket, again leading into islands of
centralization within a dezentralized meta-structure. this makes no sense.

the concept for sure is very interesting. i don't intend to invest but watching
this tech attentive, because it is clear the way to go, at least from my pov.
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January 26, 2014, 09:05:49 PM
 #406

Bcnext asked for 21 btc for the lot and he got the 21 btc and consequently closed the IPO. if he had carried on selling nxt coins even past the 21 btc goal he would have screwed the ones who had invested thinking the 21 btc would buy the whole pie. for example if someone had invested 1btc thinking he would get around 450k of nxt....selling nxt even past 21 btc it would have screwed that investor as his share would be much less than what he had agreed into.

Care to show where exactly BCNext asked for 21 BTC? From what I see, the fundraiser was abruptly and unexpectedly cut in the middle, with interested investors left overboard, having to buy in later on much higher valuation (which contributed to explosive speculative growth).

After this case, I much support and prefer any public project with clear and well communicated deadlines.
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January 26, 2014, 09:15:01 PM
 #407

*Following*.
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January 26, 2014, 09:28:15 PM
 #408

...having to buy in later on much higher valuation (which contributed to explosive speculative growth).

There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.

Simcoin (SIM) & CryptoPlay (CPS) DEV NxtChg IS A FUCKIN' LOW-LIFE PIECE OF SHIT EMBEZZLING PSYCHOPATH   Angry
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=929688.msg10205597#msg10205597                    "A world with the money can not be perfect." - BCNext
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January 26, 2014, 09:39:51 PM
 #409


They are NXTers. And low tier to boot.  They are followers; you can't expect them to question authority.
I for one thank you for wording my doubts.

30,000 BTC or 300 BTC, does not matter - there is no wrong question when you're asking other people's money.
but if you're dealing with 30,000 BTC, no stone should be left unturned within legal and contractual framework.

Actually, most Ether followers hate Nxt.  Nxt had an IPO of 21 BTC (1 BTC was from the founder).  The creator (BCNext) didn't allow anyone to invest more than 1BTC.  Most people were skeptical, called it a scam, so they didn't invest and he launched Nxt.  Then everyone screamed that the distribution was unfair and they didn't have enough time to invest.  Personally, I don't like large public IPO's for crypto's, it's lame, if it's POW, it should be launched for free and mined.  POS is tricky, because it has to be launched all at once, I don't think any POS will have a small IPO after Nxt.  Regardless, I'll avoid Ether, it's going to be killed by greed.
Vitalik hates NXT - nothing ever mentioned by him or his magazine about it. He pretends as if it non exists!
Go figure...
 Cheesy

When I asked when was the deadline to invest in NXT while it was still open, it was suddenly closed without any advance notice, and I was not allowed to invest in it. The deadline was not clear in the announcement, but most people, including myself, thought it was January 3, 2014. The genesis block was not created yet. It is very clear to me that they did not want any further dilution of existing investment, though no one will admit this. If there was some technical reason for ending the pre-sale early without advance notice, they could have just said something to the effect of "We are closing the sale now, so if you want to send in your Bitcoin you need to do so within the next X hours." They did allow another coin in which was sent while I was waiting for an answer. A week later, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup over the presale price.

The presale of Ethereum, like that of Mastercoin, is very well defined with a clearly defined period of investment, and in the case of Ethereum, a clearly defined limit on total investment. NXT, on the other hand, was arbitrarily closed at the convenience of the founder with no advance warning, and not everyone who was interested was allowed to invest.



I think the situation with Ethereum the same. IPO could end next day, 2nd of Feb, if someone with IGS (incurable greed syndrome) invests 29500 BTC. So people many disappoint not get coin any...
TooDumbForBitcoin
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January 26, 2014, 09:45:23 PM
 #410

Question for the founders:

What will Matthew N. Wright's involvement in Ethereum be?

I put Satoshi on "ignore".
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January 26, 2014, 09:47:18 PM
 #411

I forbid anyone to invest in this bullshit. ETH is 1 step above from being a heist.
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January 26, 2014, 09:49:07 PM
 #412

this is more like mastercoin. MSC doesn't have a wallet yet, 7 months later. as the first "coin" of its kind only few people trusted it
to invest into. i don't know yet where it is going, but i am sure those kind of coins will have great future. i'll give them 1-2 years to prove
them self Wink
i expect more people with more "coins" like this
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January 26, 2014, 09:53:28 PM
 #413

I had a longer reply written up...but you know what it slowly became an angry post so I'll start simple...

I read your whitepaper, I've followed the news, I planned on investing...

So someone please explain to me, why a startup with no demo, beta, product, requires 30 million dollars (30000 btc) and 50% of the currency?

Its a currency, not a product, but sure...lets call it a product. Google didn't ask you for 30 million dollars and say you can only use our search engine 50% of the time or you only get every other result for your searches?

...30000 btc which can be ALOT more than 30 million dollars even by the time they launch (if we're following the overall trend) AND 50% of all coins owned?

Common people...

The money is for devs and the team?

Well this is my informal application....I'm a soft eng.... I'd like to become an insta millionaire please? even before we have a product.

Guys we're NOT doing this for the profit we just believe so much in what we're making. ( I hope I get hired)

it seems some people underestimate the project size and real goals ethereum is after for.
this is not a currency, looking at it as it if were, gives a wrong perpective what is going
on here. ethereum tries to built a global, decentralized financial grid layer, populated by
semi autonomous code-reactors, hibernating within the blockchain until wakeup and acting as
more or less maintenance free financial servants when feeded with the appropiate value.
and you wonder why some old school entities are more than interested in this tech?
the first mover, able to access a global finance api (boiled down to what it is) gains
huge profit margins. a 30m usd invest is nothing compared to those margins but this tech
raises some other important questions, besides the pure tech ones.

as a nxt deveopler i am working on a similar approach but with a focus on decentralized
applications and there is a good change nxt will run the first usefull prototype within
the blockchain in a couple of weeks. but as mentioned above, applications should serve
all users, not only entities with the biggest pocket, again leading into islands of
centralization within a dezentralized meta-structure. this makes no sense.

the concept for sure is very interesting. i don't intend to invest but watching
this tech attentive, because it is clear the way to go, at least from my pov.


Congratulations...You efficiently and sufficiently answered my question as to why they need 30000 btc and 50% of the product. Good job Smiley -- Sorry...33.3%

GPC: LMQpqXVg7f3XhLmKZR7HESMYY1aC6XoWWC
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January 26, 2014, 10:00:59 PM
 #414

One after the other (Mike Hearn, Vitalik etc) the Bitcoin cartelists join the state, what a surprise!
They need to make real money their big BTC portfolios and SR was never an option for them, go figure..

Miners, early adopters and big investors - the three big cartels in Bitcoin world.

Aye…coinvalidation team, mike hearn and all state friendlies should team up..Make no mistake the draconian status quo which favors the elite and oppress the poor, exist to control and will do all they can to co-opt, kill or adulterate innovative financial technology that snatches power away from their claws…it would be a terrible state of affairs if the people: users, business end up handing control back in the hands of oppressors to create an even worse oppressive and exclusive financial system through the likes of coinvalidation.
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January 26, 2014, 10:03:23 PM
 #415

There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.

Once the NXT's distributed, they were immediately traded on 1BTC / 1M rates, with a x47 multiplier for these who invested 1 BTC, that just kept pushing the price further within a very short amount of time, without any actual innovative features provided by Nxt.

Here at least we have a predictable ROI for everyone.
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January 26, 2014, 10:09:14 PM
 #416

There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.

Once the NXT's distributed, they were immediately traded on 1BTC / 1M rates, with a x47 multiplier for these who invested 1 BTC, that just kept pushing the price further within a very short amount of time, without any actual innovative features provided by Nxt.

Here at least we have a predictable ROI for everyone.

How can there be a multiplier if there was NO prior valuation?  0.000001 NXT/BTC was the first market rate.

Simcoin (SIM) & CryptoPlay (CPS) DEV NxtChg IS A FUCKIN' LOW-LIFE PIECE OF SHIT EMBEZZLING PSYCHOPATH   Angry
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=929688.msg10205597#msg10205597                    "A world with the money can not be perfect." - BCNext
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January 26, 2014, 10:23:42 PM
 #417

There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.

Once the NXT's distributed, they were immediately traded on 1BTC / 1M rates, with a x47 multiplier for these who invested 1 BTC, that just kept pushing the price further within a very short amount of time, without any actual innovative features provided by Nxt.

Here at least we have a predictable ROI for everyone.

How can there be a multiplier if there was NO prior valuation?  0.000001 NXT/BTC was the first market rate.

When NXT was first offered for sale at a price for .000001 BTC, the cost of goods sold was 0.000000021 BTC/NXT. This is a 4762% markup over the original purchase price. The fact that no price per NXT was announced during the pre-sale has no bearing on what the original cost was of what was being resold.
SyRenity
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January 26, 2014, 10:28:35 PM
 #418

There was NO valuation prior to the Genesis Block.

Once the NXT's distributed, they were immediately traded on 1BTC / 1M rates, with a x47 multiplier for these who invested 1 BTC, that just kept pushing the price further within a very short amount of time, without any actual innovative features provided by Nxt.

Here at least we have a predictable ROI for everyone.

How can there be a multiplier if there was NO prior valuation?  0.000001 NXT/BTC was the first market rate.

When NXT was first offered for sale at a price for .000001 BTC, the cost of goods sold was 0.000000021 BTC/NXT. This is a 4762% markup over the original purchase price. The fact that no price per NXT was announced during the pre-sale has no bearing on what the original cost was of what was being resold.

+1, exactly what I was about to say.

This valuation jump (caused by artificial shortage, created by the abrupt fundraiser ending) is exactly what caused every investor and his dog to be in panic they are missing "the next BTC" train, and subsequently driven the the valuations to where we see them at this point, without any actual tangible proof of value up to this very moment, and without any clear indication how it will hold once Ethereum or any other competing platform enters the market.
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January 26, 2014, 10:29:00 PM
 #419

Can we keep on topic please?
SyRenity
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January 26, 2014, 10:31:51 PM
 #420

Can we keep on topic please?

Sure, I just personally find it funny how so many NXT holders keep attacking any potential competition, by making example of their own "ideal" IPO every time.
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