Bitcoin Forum
October 19, 2017, 01:24:00 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.0.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 [23] 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 ... 778 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1584801 times)
gutshot5820
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 09:43:09 AM
 #441

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.

Just to be correct here, these moneys have not actually went to any specific party but rather were exchanged for another one - so I'm not sure how SEC/etc. rules apply here.

There is some vagueness of law when it pertains to coins, but currently entities are hiding under the umbrella of that vagueness to skirt the law, The interpretation and how aggressively the SEC and other agencies will pursue investigations will probably be based entirely on intent and purpose.  By blatantly advertising this as an "IPO" with a "Prospectus" that are framing/selling this as an equity transaction have automatically triggered multiple felonies.  I could probably research it myself and provide something more concrete if I wanted to.  Ultimately, you do not get to skirt the law when your "intent" is obvious and that is raising capital through the exchange of coins and converting that capital into usd.  You can claim that and maybe nobody will notice, UNLESS you start asking for 36 million.  Then you will get all eyes on you, including SEC feds, taxman etc..
1508419440
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508419440

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508419440
Reply with quote  #2

1508419440
Report to moderator
1508419440
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508419440

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508419440
Reply with quote  #2

1508419440
Report to moderator
1508419440
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508419440

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508419440
Reply with quote  #2

1508419440
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1508419440
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508419440

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508419440
Reply with quote  #2

1508419440
Report to moderator
1508419440
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508419440

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508419440
Reply with quote  #2

1508419440
Report to moderator
1508419440
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508419440

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508419440
Reply with quote  #2

1508419440
Report to moderator
miramare
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


Spectiv VR Crowdsale: 08/14/17


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 09:44:29 AM
 #442

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Let's say 0% in the "distant" future.
How distant exactly is it ?
We need expect Eth can still survive for so long time.
I was interested in this project as it's with new features, transparent teams, well spread.
I am in hesitation. I think the investors will take all risks (maybe very high) and have no equally high profit expectation.




              ▄▄████████████▄▄             
          ▄███▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░▀▀▀███▄▄         
       ▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀██▄       
     ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀███     
   ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄█████████████▄   
  ▄██░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄█████████░░░░░░░░░░░░▀█▌ 
 ▐██░░░░░░░░▄█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░░░░░░░░▀█▌
▐██░░░░░░▄███▀▀███████████████▀▀██▄░░░░░░██▌
████▄░░▄██▀███████▄██████▄████████▀██▄░░░▐██
██░▀████▀██████████████████████████████▄░░██
██░░░▀██▄█████████████████████████▄██▀▀██▄██
██▌░░░░▀███▄████████▀▀▀▀███████▄██▀░░░░░▀███
▐██░░░░░░░▀███▄▄███████████▄▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░██▌
 ▐██░░░░░░░░░░▀▀████████████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌
  ▀██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌ 
   ▀███▀▀▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀   
     ▀██▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀     
       ▀███▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄██▀       
          ▀████▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄███▀         
              ▀▀▀██████████▀▀▀             

     
                   [ Whitepaper ]        [ Website ]                     
     
swansong
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 151



View Profile
January 27, 2014, 09:50:25 AM
 #443

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.



Wait what? I will pay for something and not even be able to sell?
digitalindustry
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


Rocking Retro world since that Star got moved !


View Profile WWW
January 27, 2014, 09:55:38 AM
 #444

Vitalik:

The whole Quark team and community has a lot of respect for you , I also do.

We have a response , i'm asked why the 50% pre-mine and people are asking why not distribute the single blockchain via PoW with our 6 hash algorithm.

people would accept maybe a 1% stake for founders such as yourself .

this way anyone can have a chance to mine your design.

why a 50% premine

Why an IPO ?

why all the complex "Financialization" ?

you are welcome to join the Quark team any time you want, if you want to get on board with a next gen Crypto that meets a Neutral control principal :

1. EQ reward
2. PoW distribution  (imperfect all be it )
3. CPU mining still to this day .
4. fast distribution no control vectors .  

Regards .

tiny rick !
- https://voat.co/v/Contact/
- Twitter @Kolin_Quark
digitalindustry
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812


Rocking Retro world since that Star got moved !


View Profile WWW
January 27, 2014, 09:56:11 AM
 #445

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.



Wait what? I will pay for something and not even be able to sell?

Just like at a real Bank !  lol : D

tiny rick !
- https://voat.co/v/Contact/
- Twitter @Kolin_Quark
lonsharim
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 09:57:04 AM
 #446

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.



Wait what? I will pay for something and not even be able to sell?

This applies only to founder's share of ETH and not to investors, a self imposed vesting period to demonstrate developer commitment of the project.

lonsharim
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 10:03:50 AM
 #447

i'm asked why the 50% pre-mine and people are asking why not distribute the single blockchain via PoW with our 6 hash algorithm.

They had an interesting explanation in another thread - mining would empower the miners only - by a 2 month IPO an post 0.4x mining and trading allows 3 broadly different types of crypto currency users to participate

1. The investors
2. Miners
3. Developers who can meaningfully contribute to the project and earn their share.
niner
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 189


You are here ---------> but you're not all there.


View Profile WWW
January 27, 2014, 10:05:18 AM
 #448

Until such time that there is a decentralized exchange, where will investors go to buy and sell ETH after the initial 60 day offering?

Ⓑ Ⓘ Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓞ Ⓘ Ⓝ 1NMBixVgJyA63MExRuChcxjhKAW1QkvZU4
digital49ers.com   bitcoin.de   Alt Coins: CryptsyVircurex
miramare
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


Spectiv VR Crowdsale: 08/14/17


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 10:07:32 AM
 #449

The "potential' investors have a lot of doubts. And none of "official" ETH would like to answer them.  Cry Cry Cry


              ▄▄████████████▄▄             
          ▄███▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░▀▀▀███▄▄         
       ▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀██▄       
     ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀███     
   ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄█████████████▄   
  ▄██░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄█████████░░░░░░░░░░░░▀█▌ 
 ▐██░░░░░░░░▄█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░░░░░░░░▀█▌
▐██░░░░░░▄███▀▀███████████████▀▀██▄░░░░░░██▌
████▄░░▄██▀███████▄██████▄████████▀██▄░░░▐██
██░▀████▀██████████████████████████████▄░░██
██░░░▀██▄█████████████████████████▄██▀▀██▄██
██▌░░░░▀███▄████████▀▀▀▀███████▄██▀░░░░░▀███
▐██░░░░░░░▀███▄▄███████████▄▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░██▌
 ▐██░░░░░░░░░░▀▀████████████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌
  ▀██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌ 
   ▀███▀▀▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀   
     ▀██▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀     
       ▀███▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄██▀       
          ▀████▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄███▀         
              ▀▀▀██████████▀▀▀             

     
                   [ Whitepaper ]        [ Website ]                     
     
TwinWinNerD
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


CEO BitPanda.com


View Profile WWW
January 27, 2014, 10:13:02 AM
 #450

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Let's say 0% in the "distant" future.
How distant exactly is it ?
We need expect Eth can still survive for so long time.
I was interested in this project as it's with new features, transparent teams, well spread.
I am in hesitation. I think the investors will take all risks (maybe very high) and have no equally high profit expectation.




Actually we can calucate that fairly easily. Lets say you define 2% as "No inflation".

Then
1.5X+0.4XY        = 1.02
1.5X+0.4X(Y+1)



miramare
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


Spectiv VR Crowdsale: 08/14/17


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 10:52:47 AM
 #451

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Let's say 0% in the "distant" future.
How distant exactly is it ?
We need expect Eth can still survive for so long time.
I was interested in this project as it's with new features, transparent teams, well spread.
I am in hesitation. I think the investors will take all risks (maybe very high) and have no equally high profit expectation.




Actually we can calucate that fairly easily. Lets say you define 2% as "No inflation".

Then
1.5X+0.4XY        = 1.02
1.5X+0.4X(Y+1)


Something is wrong with this equation.
The right part should be 1/1.02, I think.
To solve the equation, we can get Y~46.25.
Yeah, we will have no inflation in 2070s. (consistent with the result in whitepaper).






              ▄▄████████████▄▄             
          ▄███▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░▀▀▀███▄▄         
       ▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀██▄       
     ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀███     
   ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄█████████████▄   
  ▄██░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄█████████░░░░░░░░░░░░▀█▌ 
 ▐██░░░░░░░░▄█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░░░░░░░░▀█▌
▐██░░░░░░▄███▀▀███████████████▀▀██▄░░░░░░██▌
████▄░░▄██▀███████▄██████▄████████▀██▄░░░▐██
██░▀████▀██████████████████████████████▄░░██
██░░░▀██▄█████████████████████████▄██▀▀██▄██
██▌░░░░▀███▄████████▀▀▀▀███████▄██▀░░░░░▀███
▐██░░░░░░░▀███▄▄███████████▄▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░██▌
 ▐██░░░░░░░░░░▀▀████████████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌
  ▀██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌ 
   ▀███▀▀▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀   
     ▀██▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀     
       ▀███▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄██▀       
          ▀████▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄███▀         
              ▀▀▀██████████▀▀▀             

     
                   [ Whitepaper ]        [ Website ]                     
     
MsCollec
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 10:55:37 AM
 #452

OMG so much drama with Ethereum  Sad  The beginning of mayhem and trolls accusations of scam conspiracy  Lips sealed
pandaisftw
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 10:59:56 AM
 #453

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Let's say 0% in the "distant" future.
How distant exactly is it ?
We need expect Eth can still survive for so long time.
I was interested in this project as it's with new features, transparent teams, well spread.
I am in hesitation. I think the investors will take all risks (maybe very high) and have no equally high profit expectation.




Actually we can calucate that fairly easily. Lets say you define 2% as "No inflation".

Then
1.5X+0.4XY        = 1.02
1.5X+0.4X(Y+1)


Something is wrong with this equation.
The right part should be 1/1.02, I think.
To solve the equation, we can get Y~46.25.
Yeah, we will have no inflation in 2070s. (consistent with the result in whitepaper).






What is the total amount of inflation from IPO until 2070?

NXT: 13095091276527367030
TheMightyX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350

Vires in Numeris


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 11:12:21 AM
 #454

This thread is such a joke.  You have the EXACT three or four guys repeating over and over again what a great product it is and attacking and demoralizing anyone who has a negative opinion about it.  Go to just about any forum thats sells products and you see the same pattern.  Three or four shills pumping up the product throughout the entire thread making it seem like the entire community thinks it is awesome.  This crowdfundraising is a total scam job.  Who in their right mind gives 30,000 in untraceable bitcoins to a bunch of total strangers that refuse to file the proper paperwork that is required when crowdfundraising.  This legally required fundraising is designed to provide transparency and protect people against fraud.  This is not your average coin launch that does a percentage of pre-mine for advertising.  They lost their right of anonymity as small time devs just casually creating coins when they asked for 36 million dollars from the public. When you ask for that kind of cash, you MUST file the proper paperwork.

They are asking YOU and the entire bitcoin community to TRUST them and GIVE them 30,000 BTC before launch and make them millions before one coin is mined with absolutely no documentation, no insurance, no bond, no transparency, no regulatory filings.  Do not let them deceive you.  This is not just another coin launch.  When you ask for this type of money, you MUST file the proper paperwork and background checks.  Who are these guys?  ONE youtube video and they are asking for 30,000 BTC.  Let them earn their money like every other dev, mine a small part and let the market decide how much the coins should be worth. Even if you like the tech DO NOT enable this kind of behaviour and let these fukin devs take advantage of the bitcoin community.  They want to be millionaires with YOUR money before even launching.  They want YOU to take ALL the risk while they become millionaires with ZERO risk.    They will be laughing all the way to the bank in their new Lamborghinis and Homes, while you are nervous about your money the entire time.  They have no sweat equity or money in of their own in this project.  Does this seem right to you?

Actually if anyone has bombarded this thread by repeating the same point over and over and over again, it is you.

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.
30,000 BTC = 25 million, so a bit off. They probably should not have set a cap at all, because it shows what they think they are capable of acquiring from the people in a best case scenario.

Quote
You ask for conformity with US regulations when this is NOT a project within American jurisdiction and global investors including investors from outside your country. You know people do exist who are not American. Should they file paperwork with every country where investors come from?
So because it won't have any effect in some countries we should do away with any kind of recourse at all? What the hell kind of logic is that? "Hey your seatbelt wont save you from ALL injuries so you just shouldn't wear it"
At least if shit went sideways and they were regulated in canada, there would be SOME recourse, wouldn't you agree?

Quote
Everyone has a choice. You have made it clear that this is scam. So don't invest in it. You want to educate others about it? I have read a dozen of your posts that essentially make the same point. It's got to a point where this is now verbal diarrhea ad nauseum.
What he is doing (countering bullshit posts) is helpful to the community, because the majority of people don't read a 20, 50 or 100 page thread in its entirety. They read the first page and the last page(s). If he was to just shut up it would let people spread misleading propoganda. So thank you for bringing some issues to light Gunshot5820.

Quote
I suspect you actually do want to invest a large amount yourself so by scaring the crap out of people you want to minimize dilution. You can deny all you want but there is no other motive strong enough to repeatedly change the narrative of this thread your way with nothing else to gain. If I thought this was a scam I would have had my say and then left this thread alone.
He's doing what he feels is right, warning others about a potentially bad situation waiting to happen. It looks like he is trying to prevent others from being misled.

The truth is ETH has some very large issues in overrall design. We need people to point these out and bring things to our attention. The creators are treating this like a product. Well we are tired of being sold crap. ETH was not created by god, it was created by people. People can be stupid, nearsighted, petty, greedy and wrong. The creators of ETH are no different. People are people. The motivation for this project is obviously greed. Not a desire to create a better world.
miramare
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


Spectiv VR Crowdsale: 08/14/17


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 11:18:26 AM
 #455

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Let's say 0% in the "distant" future.
How distant exactly is it ?
We need expect Eth can still survive for so long time.
I was interested in this project as it's with new features, transparent teams, well spread.
I am in hesitation. I think the investors will take all risks (maybe very high) and have no equally high profit expectation.




Actually we can calucate that fairly easily. Lets say you define 2% as "No inflation".

Then
1.5X+0.4XY        = 1.02
1.5X+0.4X(Y+1)


Something is wrong with this equation.
The right part should be 1/1.02, I think.
To solve the equation, we can get Y~46.25.
Yeah, we will have no inflation in 2070s. (consistent with the result in whitepaper).






What is the total amount of inflation from IPO until 2070?

Assuming that Eth will reach the hard cap (30000BTC) at IPO, there are about 30,000,000-60,000,000 eths sold in total (Let's take a median value 45,000,000). Considering 50% premine, the amount of eth should be 1.5*45,000,000 ~ 67,500,000 at launch.
Until 2070, the total amount of eth should be 67,500,000*(1+0.4*46)~ 1,309,500,000.

So just don't worry about the inflation. The amount JUST increase about 20 times in 46 years.
It's only a bit, isn't it?


              ▄▄████████████▄▄             
          ▄███▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░▀▀▀███▄▄         
       ▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀██▄       
     ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀███     
   ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄█████████████▄   
  ▄██░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄█████████░░░░░░░░░░░░▀█▌ 
 ▐██░░░░░░░░▄█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░░░░░░░░▀█▌
▐██░░░░░░▄███▀▀███████████████▀▀██▄░░░░░░██▌
████▄░░▄██▀███████▄██████▄████████▀██▄░░░▐██
██░▀████▀██████████████████████████████▄░░██
██░░░▀██▄█████████████████████████▄██▀▀██▄██
██▌░░░░▀███▄████████▀▀▀▀███████▄██▀░░░░░▀███
▐██░░░░░░░▀███▄▄███████████▄▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░██▌
 ▐██░░░░░░░░░░▀▀████████████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌
  ▀██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌ 
   ▀███▀▀▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀   
     ▀██▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀     
       ▀███▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄██▀       
          ▀████▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄███▀         
              ▀▀▀██████████▀▀▀             

     
                   [ Whitepaper ]        [ Website ]                     
     
miramare
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672


Spectiv VR Crowdsale: 08/14/17


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
 #456

Quote


My other question is, where do the other 30'000 bitcoins go? Do the founders have to invest into the project too or are they simply awarded the 0.5X Ethereum.

Otherwise, the project looks promising but there I'm skeptical regarding ROI.

Read the first post. 30000 BTC will go to the pocket of devs according to salary, bounty....


              ▄▄████████████▄▄             
          ▄███▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░▀▀▀███▄▄         
       ▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀██▄       
     ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀███     
   ▄██▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄█████████████▄   
  ▄██░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄█████████░░░░░░░░░░░░▀█▌ 
 ▐██░░░░░░░░▄█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄░░░░░░░░▀█▌
▐██░░░░░░▄███▀▀███████████████▀▀██▄░░░░░░██▌
████▄░░▄██▀███████▄██████▄████████▀██▄░░░▐██
██░▀████▀██████████████████████████████▄░░██
██░░░▀██▄█████████████████████████▄██▀▀██▄██
██▌░░░░▀███▄████████▀▀▀▀███████▄██▀░░░░░▀███
▐██░░░░░░░▀███▄▄███████████▄▄██▀▀░░░░░░░░██▌
 ▐██░░░░░░░░░░▀▀████████████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌
  ▀██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄█▌ 
   ▀███▀▀▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀   
     ▀██▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄██▀     
       ▀███▄░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄██▀       
          ▀████▄▄░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄███▀         
              ▀▀▀██████████▀▀▀             

     
                   [ Whitepaper ]        [ Website ]                     
     
etparle
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238

I love NACHOS


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 11:35:39 AM
 #457

this amount of premine and greed with Ethereum devs are of epic proportion. good luck to those "invest" in this.
_ingsoc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 449



View Profile WWW
January 27, 2014, 11:37:31 AM
 #458

Read the first post. 30000 BTC will go to the pocket of devs according to salary, bounty....

The thing I think people don't understand is that the everything I've read so far from the Ethereum guys indicates they have a long-term view. People don't seem to understand this. That money is going to be transparent and will go to the development of Ethereum in multiple programming languages, as well as applications and services on the platform. And from what I've read that's just the beginning. Vitalik talked about detailed spending plans that go all the way up to the hard cap. Of course, all of this is yet to be revealed, but that takes time to develop as well.

The point is, would you rather have a pump and dump coin that has a few months outlook (if that), or something that tries to grow value over the long-term? That's my take so far anyway, by ignoring the FUD, and looking at what they've actually said.

LeoC
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 11:47:02 AM
 #459

This thread is such a joke.  You have the EXACT three or four guys repeating over and over again what a great product it is and attacking and demoralizing anyone who has a negative opinion about it.  Go to just about any forum thats sells products and you see the same pattern.  Three or four shills pumping up the product throughout the entire thread making it seem like the entire community thinks it is awesome.  This crowdfundraising is a total scam job.  Who in their right mind gives 30,000 in untraceable bitcoins to a bunch of total strangers that refuse to file the proper paperwork that is required when crowdfundraising.  This legally required fundraising is designed to provide transparency and protect people against fraud.  This is not your average coin launch that does a percentage of pre-mine for advertising.  They lost their right of anonymity as small time devs just casually creating coins when they asked for 36 million dollars from the public. When you ask for that kind of cash, you MUST file the proper paperwork.

They are asking YOU and the entire bitcoin community to TRUST them and GIVE them 30,000 BTC before launch and make them millions before one coin is mined with absolutely no documentation, no insurance, no bond, no transparency, no regulatory filings.  Do not let them deceive you.  This is not just another coin launch.  When you ask for this type of money, you MUST file the proper paperwork and background checks.  Who are these guys?  ONE youtube video and they are asking for 30,000 BTC.  Let them earn their money like every other dev, mine a small part and let the market decide how much the coins should be worth. Even if you like the tech DO NOT enable this kind of behaviour and let these fukin devs take advantage of the bitcoin community.  They want to be millionaires with YOUR money before even launching.  They want YOU to take ALL the risk while they become millionaires with ZERO risk.    They will be laughing all the way to the bank in their new Lamborghinis and Homes, while you are nervous about your money the entire time.  They have no sweat equity or money in of their own in this project.  Does this seem right to you?

Actually if anyone has bombarded this thread by repeating the same point over and over and over again, it is you.

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.
30,000 BTC = 25 million, so a bit off. They probably should not have set a cap at all, because it shows what they think they are capable of acquiring from the people in a best case scenario.

Quote
You ask for conformity with US regulations when this is NOT a project within American jurisdiction and global investors including investors from outside your country. You know people do exist who are not American. Should they file paperwork with every country where investors come from?
So because it won't have any effect in some countries we should do away with any kind of recourse at all? What the hell kind of logic is that? "Hey your seatbelt wont save you from ALL injuries so you just shouldn't wear it"
At least if shit went sideways and they were regulated in canada, there would be SOME recourse, wouldn't you agree?

Quote
Everyone has a choice. You have made it clear that this is scam. So don't invest in it. You want to educate others about it? I have read a dozen of your posts that essentially make the same point. It's got to a point where this is now verbal diarrhea ad nauseum.
What he is doing (countering bullshit posts) is helpful to the community, because the majority of people don't read a 20, 50 or 100 page thread in its entirety. They read the first page and the last page(s). If he was to just shut up it would let people spread misleading propoganda. So thank you for bringing some issues to light Gunshot5820.

Quote
I suspect you actually do want to invest a large amount yourself so by scaring the crap out of people you want to minimize dilution. You can deny all you want but there is no other motive strong enough to repeatedly change the narrative of this thread your way with nothing else to gain. If I thought this was a scam I would have had my say and then left this thread alone.
He's doing what he feels is right, warning others about a potentially bad situation waiting to happen. It looks like he is trying to prevent others from being misled.

The truth is ETH has some very large issues in overrall design. We need people to point these out and bring things to our attention. The creators are treating this like a product. Well we are tired of being sold crap. ETH was not created by god, it was created by people. People can be stupid, nearsighted, petty, greedy and wrong. The creators of ETH are no different. People are people. The motivation for this project is obviously greed. Not a desire to create a better world.

MightX you are the most self entitled pig I have ever met. Have you yourself done ANYTHING other than bitch about other peoples ideas, products or services?
If you don't like something, then make one yourself. Sick of seeing you on these forums with ZERO ideas, but bashing all the good ones.
lonsharim
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
January 27, 2014, 11:48:02 AM
 #460

30,000 BTC = 25 million, so a bit off. They probably should not have set a cap at all, because it shows what they think they are capable of acquiring from the people in a best case scenario.
36-25=11 million dollars. It might be a bit for you but to most others that represents a lot of money. At least you acknowledge that it is a best case scanario, Gunshot propagates repeatedly that 36 mill is what the devs are looking to raise, that is just as bullshit and just as misleading. I have as much right to disagree. Do you not question a man who clearly knows the math is wrong and repeats the same in every single post?

Quote
You ask for conformity with US regulations when this is NOT a project within American jurisdiction and global investors including investors from outside your country. You know people do exist who are not American. Should they file paperwork with every country where investors come from?
So because it won't have any effect in some countries we should do away with any kind of recourse at all? What the hell kind of logic is that? "Hey your seatbelt wont save you from ALL injuries so you just shouldn't wear it"
At least if shit went sideways and they were regulated in canada, there would be SOME recourse, wouldn't you agree?

A recourse for making an investment in what governments around the world consider commodity and not currency. There is a difference between desirability and realism. To raise such an objection to one project while not applying the same logic to others is also extremely selective. I have to agree regulated is better than unregulated but do you really think that is possible?

Quote
Everyone has a choice. You have made it clear that this is scam. So don't invest in it. You want to educate others about it? I have read a dozen of your posts that essentially make the same point. It's got to a point where this is now verbal diarrhea ad nauseum.
What he is doing (countering bullshit posts) is helpful to the community, because the majority of people don't read a 20, 50 or 100 page thread in its entirety. They read the first page and the last page(s). If he was to just shut up it would let people spread misleading propoganda. So thank you for bringing some issues to light Gunshot5820.
Well what he said in response is called abuse. Calling someone scum and asshole because they questioned your post is unhelpful and bullying. You might unfortunately find that helpful but it shows extremely poor taste and is an accurate reflection of his culture and upbringing.

He's doing what he feels is right, warning others about a potentially bad situation waiting to happen. It looks like he is trying to prevent others from being misled.
Why is that his exclusive right to post what he feels is right? Why can no one respond without getting abused by him?

The truth is ETH has some very large issues in overrall design. We need people to point these out and bring things to our attention. The creators are treating this like a product. Well we are tired of being sold crap. ETH was not created by god, it was created by people. People can be stupid, nearsighted, petty, greedy and wrong. The creators of ETH are no different. People are people. The motivation for this project is obviously greed. Not a desire to create a better world.

You may be right I do not debate that. No project, especially a financial project can be born out of altruism alone. Next we can debate on how much greed is acceptable to a majority of the community. It is subjective at the end of the day. I personally think the founders should not be remunerated from the BTC and also receive ETH as part of the premine. You might hold a more extreme or liberal view on the matter but either of us have say in the matter but surely we can debate it with civility?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 [23] 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 ... 778 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!