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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1113764 times)
nesco1805
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January 29, 2014, 09:22:17 PM
 #841



Thanks Charles for your answer. I personally find the idea behind Ethereum ingenius. I want to believe in it. Now I feel that we'll get answers to our concerns from the Ethereum team. I hope that Goldman Sachs is not involved. Without making a poll I suppose 80% of the forum members think that GS is responsible for lot of bad things in this world and we don't want a crpyto which GS has a finger in it.


So you'll be happier and compliant once you can hear a slick employed PR mouth piece to make all your concerns seem silly. Some people deserve what they get IMO...

That is basically what most of so called critics have said:

I want to believe. Why are you not speaking to us? Throw me a bone. Just tell me what I want to hear, and I'll gladly throw my money in.

Which is not only pathetic, but fully deserved. Every satoshi they lose will be well invested not only in their education, but that of an entire community.
And I'm not saying investors will lose money, just that I will pray that they lose(same like I prayed with NEON).

In my opinion that would be the best overall outcome of this whole matter.
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kvb
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January 29, 2014, 09:32:53 PM
 #842

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Thank you for posting that here as well, in case people miss it. We've maintained a list of community questions in post #634. Is it possible to get some direct answers on these at one point? I think it covers most of the concerns people have here.

We've done two things. First, we have hired a director of communications to help address as many questions as possible and he will be coming online as soon as possible (most likely Friday). Second, we are going to hold some form of AMA and build a complete FAQ.

Vitalik and I will also be trying to do some sort of regular Q&A session to fully address everyone's concerns. I'm really sorry for the delays in communication. Most of the team was in Miami and we were hit so hard down there with work it was nearly impossible to regularly check things here.

The best part about the bitcoin community is that they are very smart and have great ideas. I really do value a lot of the feedback we've received here and I make a promise we'll answer as much as we can as soon as we can. This said, it will take some time as the queue is really long, but hopefully we can at least address a lot of the core questions within the next week or so.

We are also releasing the centralized proof of concept testnet on Feb 1st and making an announcement about how we plan to better engage the cryptocurrency community on Feb. 20th or so. Please check out the code, look at the protocol specs, the high level language and the compiler we have, and write some contracts. Costa and co are building a full clearinghouse on top of the testnet.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your enormous patience and I look forward to hearing from you all soon.  

Hi Charles,

Excellent and sensible move with the delay. That will give a time for a breath for everyone because the rapid time schedule was a press for many.

Keep up with the excellent and constructive attitude. The spirit of cooperation is one of the highest values and will lead to a major success and easier solution to different issues.

I'm as a quality engineer can recommend the following approach:
"Doing the Right thing, Right, Right the First Time"
It's the most effective and straightforward way to achieve any goals with minimum time, energy, money and effort.

Things should be done from the start in the Right manner because you never may have the time or opportunity to fix them later, you never know. This is why unjustified haste leads to errors and waste of time, money, reputation. This should be avoided as much as possible.

What do you think about improving the decision making process to include the community in a more direct way? Some kind of system for voting on proposals and maybe a road-map with milestones? that way it's managed more democratically and the level of participation will definitely improve considerably, benefiting everyone involved.

May the Ether bless us! In Ether we Trust!  Wink  Cheesy  Grin
pand70
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January 29, 2014, 09:38:01 PM
 #843

I want to believe. Why are you not speaking to us? Throw me a bone. Just tell me what I want to hear, and I'll gladly throw my money in.

This pretty much sums up the last 44 pages. Checkpoint.

frga13
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January 29, 2014, 09:41:47 PM
 #844

This pretty much sums up the last 44 pages. Checkpoint.

true
moderator, now you can lock this thread  Cool

CoinHeavy
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January 29, 2014, 10:10:23 PM
 #845

Does anyone know if there are official plans for things like a ruby gem or a python library?  Allowing contracts to easily integrate with existing web applications seems like the best way to encourage adoption.  The more developers who can understand/test/validate contract code the better.

Smith + Crown Research Index » SmithandCrown.com/research-search
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January 29, 2014, 10:37:01 PM
 #846

For the non-techie among us, would I be able to install alpha release of the testnet client on my Win 8? Some guidance would be helpful.  What does all this mean? "two official clients released at the same time, with one written in C++ and the other in Go; a Python client is also in the works. A compiler from the Ethereum CLL to Ethereum script will be released very soon."
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January 29, 2014, 10:49:14 PM
 #847

For the non-techie among us, would I be able to install alpha release of the testnet client on my Win 8? Some guidance would be helpful.  What does all this mean? "two official clients released at the same time, with one written in C++ and the other in Go; a Python client is also in the works. A compiler from the Ethereum CLL to Ethereum script will be released very soon."

see if this helps..
http://dr-pra.tumblr.com/post/73526554416/build-and-run-the-ethereum-go-client-on-windows
LeoC
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January 29, 2014, 10:57:00 PM
 #848

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.
arcke
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January 29, 2014, 11:18:54 PM
 #849

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

It's horse shit to believe keyloggers or viruses will be loaded onto ethereum. The running of a contract does not affect the local system except for the ethereum node.

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Lauda
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January 29, 2014, 11:33:12 PM
 #850

I'll keep watching this with a chunk of doubt.
All those names sound too random.
Why not give an inside look to a senior or VIP from here?  Roll Eyes




       
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charleshoskinson
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January 29, 2014, 11:50:39 PM
 #851

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Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.

Also please be aware that LeoC sent this message to me via a PM:

Quote
10 BTC and I'll remove my posts even though they are factual and won't make any more. 15 and I will change my tune and promote.

eMunie have already lost hundreds of BTC and were forced to cancel their IPO when I called them out here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=411366.0

I was going to create a similar thread regarding Ethereum, unless you send the above amounts.

I'd suggest you think long and hard about this. Which would you prefer to lose, 10 BTC or 1000, your choice.

1C7MPUTTWQjinfbRcQtW6HAc4ips7wMuiJ

Please ignore the FUD. We are going to make every attempt to address all concerns. In many cases, with Vitalik and Me directly.

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
Chang Hum
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January 30, 2014, 12:34:41 AM
 #852

alot of posts being deleted on this thread this post wont last long....eutherium!!!
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January 30, 2014, 12:36:26 AM
 #853

I have heard that etherium might already have received investments. If this is true, What sort of preferential terms did they get? If it is not true, can you please confirm that there are no preexisting investors

The tech vision seems to be quite ambitious, does testnet release support all of what will be in the final release? If not, when will everything be completed? Is source code available?

Inflation concerns abound, ignoring preferential tems for early investors, wouldnt someone have to continue buying 40 percent more per year to maintain their stake?

Many more questions, but if the final product is many months away, or if preexisting investors get lions share of gains or if dilution cannot be avoided, then i am leery of ipo

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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January 30, 2014, 12:37:28 AM
 #854

alot of posts being deleted on this thread this post wont last long....eutherium!!!
You are not kidding!
Used to be 80 pages, now 45
That is why they didnt bother to respond

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Platonicgap
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January 30, 2014, 12:43:36 AM
 #855

http://platonicgap.wordpress.com/
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January 30, 2014, 12:46:12 AM
 #856

I can compare only Nxt and Ethereum:

1. Nxt is simple (for casual programmers), Ethereum is hardcore (for hardcore programmers). I think most of coders will choose Nxt if noone creates a simple Ethereum Contract Creation Kit.
2. Nxt can process 1000s transactions per second (coz of absence of scripts and Transparent Forging), Ethereum can't process too many transactions but they r much richer. I think these platforms would go on par if Nxt didn't have Transparent Forging. With TF Nxt will win.
3. Nxt has fixed supply of coins, Ethereum will be inflationary for a long period of time. Ordinary people prefer non-inflationary currencies.
4. Nxt is 100% PoS, Ethereum is PoW + PoS, so the latter is not so "green".

These r just a few points that came to my mind.

Please stop trying to talk up Nxt at every opportunity in this thread. You forgot to mention Nxt is vulnerable to nothing-at-stake attacks, poorly implemented in Java (known for security!), you can't store anything in an offline wallet, and the currency is owned by 71 people who sell it to everyone else. Just get real if you want to talk things up.


There is nothing wrong with Java as programing language. Don't confuse programing language with Java Applet that is a web browser plugin

It's much easier to write secure software in Java than C and C++

NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://nxtforum.org
ffssixtynine
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January 30, 2014, 01:03:38 AM
 #857



The dilution potential is huge. Set the cap at 5000 BTC and implement a max investment cap to allow many small investors.

+1

+1

At the moment it makes no sense. The risk is way too high. Besides, there are many ways they can make money once they launch, such as with their own exchange or other software.

A 5000-10000 BTC limit with 50 BTC limit per person (at least for the first month) is more sensible. Assuming BTC doesn't collapse, that's $4-8m even at current prices. In six months there is a fair chance that will have doubled. Appreciate that 'a person' is imprecise but it's a start. This way everyone knows what they are getting. This also allows people to share the coin pre-mine which I think is better pr and better for the market post launch. If month 1 goes by and the limit is not reached, then remove the coin limit for month 2.

To flip it round, any investor has to assume a 30,000 BTC valuation, making it already a valuable coin. The upside is immediately limited to the coin being a major success. Anything else and the money is lost. Factor in the minting model and the clones that will appear immediately, which may be a better gamble for those so inclined, and the investment is too high risk.

Note: The 50% pre-mine is not for the coin creators. That's for the coin investors, i.e. Potentially us. The rest is split between year 1 miners (not enough I would say), creators, and funding for dev. Correct me if I am wrong.

I want to support this and like some of those involved, but the fund raising model is wrong. That doesn't mean they won't manage to raise it, but it's raising too many eyebrows amongst investors I work with and it's a poor start to a good concept.
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January 30, 2014, 01:10:23 AM
 #858



The dilution potential is huge. Set the cap at 5000 BTC and implement a max investment cap to allow many small investors.

+1

+1

At the moment it makes no sense. The risk is way too high. Besides, there are many ways they can make money once they launch, such as with their own exchange or other software.

A 5000-10000 BTC limit with 50 BTC limit per person (at least for the first month) is more sensible. Assuming BTC doesn't collapse, that's $4-8m even at current prices. In six months there is a fair chance that will have doubled. Appreciate that 'a person' is imprecise but it's a start. This way everyone knows what they are getting. This also allows people to share the coin pre-mine which I think is better pr and better for the market post launch. If month 1 goes by and the limit is not reached, then remove the coin limit for month 2.

To flip it round, any investor has to assume a 30,000 BTC valuation, making it already a valuable coin. The upside is immediately limited to the coin being a major success. Anything else and the money is lost. Factor in the minting model and the clones that will appear immediately, which may be a better gamble for those so inclined, and the investment is too high risk.

Note: The 50% pre-mine is not for the coin creators. That's for the coin investors, i.e. Potentially us. The rest is split between year 1 miners (not enough I would say), creators, and funding for dev. Correct me if I am wrong.

I want to support this and like some of those involved, but the fund raising model is wrong. That doesn't mean they won't manage to raise it, but it's raising too many eyebrows amongst investors I work with and it's a poor start to a good concept.

Which is why they've delayed the IPO. They've obviously got the pulse of the community and decided to make adjustments.

When they'll be out with this project, others like Mastercoin or Next will be well underway and have first adopter advantage which can be huge advantage.

In this crypto world 1 month = 1 year. Too little, too late.


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Level Coin
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January 30, 2014, 01:19:21 AM
 #859

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.


I too would like to know this. Turing complete is dangerous and highly insecure.
arcke
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January 30, 2014, 01:26:11 AM
 #860

Has anyone addressed the security of having a Turing complete foundation? Turing complete means that Ethereum contracts will likely be absolutely loaded with common and proprietary viruses, keyloggers, malware, adware, and a slew of other bad things. I am willing to bet my bank account that in a few short months people will be crying about how they got all their wallets/currency stolen, or their computers are now running slow, or how they blue screen every few minutes after a reboot.

If you want an example of how Turing complete works, load up a peer to peer sharing program and download a bunch of .MOV files and run them. I GUARANTEE that you will get a virus. That's because Quicktime movie files are Turing complete. This is why mkv, mpeg, mpg and avi, while not impervious, are much much safer to download. If you want to invest, mine, and run contracts at the risk of losing everything then go ahead. We will never know for sure how secure Ether is going to be until post release, so asking for money without proof of security is another red flag.


I too would like to know this. Turing complete is dangerous and highly insecure.

You are calling every turing complete programming language out there dangerous and highly insecure. You do not seem to know what you are talking about.

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