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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1375500 times)
Red- Beard
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January 24, 2014, 03:46:12 PM
 #61

I thought Ethereum was launching tonight at midnight, did that change?

I read through this forum waiting for someone to ask, but never saw the question.  I'm starting to think I had my dates wrong.
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January 24, 2014, 03:59:04 PM
 #62

Hi Vitalik, I've learned about the project yesterday and I'm already in love with the idea, can't wait to help you fund it.

I have looked at CLL wiki entry and a simple use case I have in mind (app for company shares), and I found it won't be possible to implement dividend sending, since there is no way to iterate over contract storage. I've uploaded a contract sketch to gist and you can see it here https://gist.github.com/goshakkk/c97a8aa330c1f0a2d34b

I don't really see an issue with allowing to iterate over contract storage, the contract would get charged for every computation step regardless. It might be a bit of an issue to keep all the keys and values in RAM on large data stores though... So it could maybe keep just keys in memory? Perhaps, instead of the way I propose (`contract.storage` acting like a dictionary), it could at least be possible to access storage keys with `contract.storage.keys`?

The workaround I see is to use `contract.storage[1001]` and store an array of shareholder addresses there and then iterate over it when invoked with pay a dividend command (it's possible to store arrays as values, right?), but it would use up precious contract storage space to store shareholder addressed in two places.

So... are you planning on adding some way to iterate over storage keys? It would be super cool to see it.
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January 24, 2014, 04:02:54 PM
 #63

I thought Ethereum was launching tonight at midnight, did that change?

I read through this forum waiting for someone to ask, but never saw the question.  I'm starting to think I had my dates wrong.

The ethereum website originally had a timer without any indication as to what the timer actually meant. Some people interpreted that timer as a deadline to begin the IPO, others as a deadline for the announcement to be made...etc.

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E.Sam
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January 24, 2014, 04:21:44 PM
 #64

I thought Ethereum was launching tonight at midnight, did that change?

I read through this forum waiting for someone to ask, but never saw the question.  I'm starting to think I had my dates wrong.

If you are talking about the IPO launch, then no.

  • Ethereum will be made available for purchase on February 1st, 2014 at a price of 0.001 BTC for 1 Ether (base unit of the system)

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At what time (please also state the timezone) will the IPO start on Feb 1st?

Good old 00:00 GMT

IPO countdown:

sakkosekk
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January 24, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
 #65

I am in, I really like this project, I will risk this investment and see how good are you guys Wink

Me too. If it goes to hell I wont lose much anyway.
Vitalik Buterin
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January 24, 2014, 04:53:22 PM
 #66

Interesting but I'm not comfortable locking down my investment for 1-3 years. The uncertainty about the future of Cryptography currency is too high making long term commitment risky

Fundraiser participants are not locked down. Only the premine is locked down.

Argumentum ad lunam: the fallacy that because Bitcoin's price is rising really fast the currency must be a speculative bubble and/or Ponzi scheme.
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January 24, 2014, 04:57:51 PM
 #67

Some of you have said "but they get the bitcoins, and then they get a share of ether, too!" But you aren't reading their terms carefully enough--those bitcoins go to pay for development. They do not go into the pockets of the founders (other than inasmuch as they are paid salaries, as employees).

Who/what could stop them giving themselves a $20million annual salary for developing?



1. We will have transparent accounting
2. Ethereum is 100% open source. If the community gets angry at the way we handle the funds, they can release a fork and delete whatever portion of the issuance they don't like out of existence. We are thus very aware that we have to tread carefully here.

Also, over two years, we will be transitioning the Ethereum org itself into a DAO, so at some point its reserve holdings will also be maximally trust-free.

Argumentum ad lunam: the fallacy that because Bitcoin's price is rising really fast the currency must be a speculative bubble and/or Ponzi scheme.
Red- Beard
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January 24, 2014, 05:08:30 PM
 #68

I thought Ethereum was launching tonight at midnight, did that change?

I read through this forum waiting for someone to ask, but never saw the question.  I'm starting to think I had my dates wrong.

The ethereum website originally had a timer without any indication as to what the timer actually meant. Some people interpreted that timer as a deadline to begin the IPO, others as a deadline for the announcement to be made...etc.

But it didn't coincide with anything, that's my point.  According to what it showed me, it was set to expire at midnight tonight (Pacific Time) -- but now it seems that nothing is happening at midnight tonight, the website was updated, there's new content and such to mull over, but that didn't align with midnight tonight.

My best guess is that there's legal stuff for them to finish sorting out, so they had to push it back.  Any official word on this?
marcusnz
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January 24, 2014, 05:11:10 PM
 #69


Could someone help clear the air? Assuming I invest 5 BTC, therefore receiving 10,000 ether, what is the worst/best case scenario after the release?

Sorry for the tangent!

I too would like to read an answer to this question.
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January 24, 2014, 05:19:41 PM
 #70

I don't understand why this thread does not belong in the Altcoin section.
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January 24, 2014, 05:44:55 PM
 #71

I don't understand why this thread does not belong in the Altcoin section.

It does but someone maybe paid enough bitcoins to some address to not make it happen.

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ThePatient
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January 24, 2014, 06:13:00 PM
 #72

^That's why I'm liking this project.  The people behind it seem to have enough power to be able to pull the necessary strings to achieve success
revjp
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January 24, 2014, 06:13:29 PM
 #73

Hello Vitalik! Quick question! Is there a minimum amount required for initial investment? On the blog you wrote:

Quote
...on February 1, the fundraiser will begin, at which point anyone will be able to obtain some of the initial pre-allocated ether (Ethereum's internal currency) at a rate of 1000-2000 ether for 1 BTC by going to http://fund.ethereum.org. The fundraiser will run throughout February and March, and early funders will get higher rewards; anyone who sends money in the first seven days will receive the full 2000 ether, then 1980 ether on the 8th day, 1960 on the 9th day, and so forth until the baseline rate of 1000 ether per BTC is retained for the last three days of the fundraiser.

Will the minimum purchase be 1 BTC worth or will you be able to purchase with .5BTC or less for example? I think there are a lot of people who don't have thousands to invest but still want to get involved early on. Me being one of them  Smiley
ddink7
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January 24, 2014, 06:15:11 PM
 #74

I don't understand why this thread does not belong in the Altcoin section.

Vitalik posted a Youtube video yesterday where he suggests that ethereum is not an altcoin, but rather a platform. FWIW.


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asdlolciterquit
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January 24, 2014, 06:21:49 PM
 #75

a question about the mining: is it work like other alt coin?
justusranvier
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January 24, 2014, 06:27:46 PM
 #76

I don't understand why this thread does not belong in the Altcoin section.

Vitalik posted a Youtube video yesterday where he suggests that ethereum is not an altcoin, but rather a platform. FWIW.
I know.

Just because people say things on the Internet doesn't make it true.
ddink7
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January 24, 2014, 06:31:28 PM
 #77

I don't understand why this thread does not belong in the Altcoin section.

Vitalik posted a Youtube video yesterday where he suggests that ethereum is not an altcoin, but rather a platform. FWIW.
I know.

Just because people say things on the Internet doesn't make it true.

Just sayin'

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edok
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January 24, 2014, 06:39:48 PM
 #78

On your site you say fundraising will begin at the Miami conference tomorrow, but then here you say Feb 1st. Will those at the conference have an opportunity to invest? Will they be given better multipliers than those investing on Feb 1?

Ademan
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January 24, 2014, 07:02:27 PM
 #79

So there's a lot to read before asking a *completely* educated question about Ethereum, but hopefully I'm not jumping the gun too much...

Because Ethereum has a Turing complete scripting language, you cannot necessarily know how many cycles a script will take to execute, but Ethereum charges a fee based on how many cycles (past 16) that it takes your script to execute, how are you handling that?

If the contract doesn't have enough funds to fully feed it, my understanding is that it will cease execution. After all, if you're a miner, why would you do work for no fee?

Well that really sucks, that means you have to significantly overpay if you can't predict the runtime of your contract (which is a fact of turing completeness, though it's possible to write programs which have a deterministic run-length, what's the point of having a turing complete scripting language in that case?)

Then again it'd also suck to have an address drained of funds because of an accidental infinite loop in one of your scripts (though I hope you're not "testing live"!).

My point is there are multiple ways to handle this, all of them seem to suck in multiple ways, so I'm wondering what the devs are doing.
ddink7
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January 24, 2014, 07:15:09 PM
 #80

So there's a lot to read before asking a *completely* educated question about Ethereum, but hopefully I'm not jumping the gun too much...

Because Ethereum has a Turing complete scripting language, you cannot necessarily know how many cycles a script will take to execute, but Ethereum charges a fee based on how many cycles (past 16) that it takes your script to execute, how are you handling that?

If the contract doesn't have enough funds to fully feed it, my understanding is that it will cease execution. After all, if you're a miner, why would you do work for no fee?

Well that really sucks, that means you have to significantly overpay if you can't predict the runtime of your contract (which is a fact of turing completeness, though it's possible to write programs which have a deterministic run-length, what's the point of having a turing complete scripting language in that case?)

Then again it'd also suck to have an address drained of funds because of an accidental infinite loop in one of your scripts (though I hope you're not "testing live"!).

My point is there are multiple ways to handle this, all of them seem to suck in multiple ways, so I'm wondering what the devs are doing.

Vitalik says: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/9671/ethereum-next-generation-cryptocurrency-decentralized-application-platform/

Quote
Fees - Ethereum contracts will regulate its Turing-complete functionality and prevent abusive transactions such as memory hogs and infinite loop scripts by instituting a transaction fee for each computational step of script execution. More expensive operations, such as storage accesses and cryptographic operations, will have higher fees, and there will also be a fee for every item of storage that a contract fills up. To encourage contracts to clean up after themselves, if a contract reduces the amount of storage that it uses a negative fee will be charged; in fact, there is a special SUICIDE opcode to clear a contract and send all funds and the hefty negative fee back to its creator.

Dash - Digital Cash
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