[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[BetMoose]

I was first to accept in this thread. I have PMed smaragda. I should be on other side of bet. Leaving home to make an errand does not preclude someone else taking my place.

TwinWinNerD's bet has been matched by windjc...  Bets Closed!   

Kinda feeling pretty good about this bet. 

Haha yes looks not bad but I expect many people to wait for the end of the 2000 period to invest. It is a long time to go still!

If anyone is looking for more action on this don't forget this bet is live for the next 35 days. Betting early adds weight to your bet so if you're super sure of the total sale amount, we recommend you place now now.

https://www.betmoose.com/bet/total-ether-sold-will-exceed-25-000-btc-659

[1714128077]

1714128077

[1714128077]

1714128077

[1714128077]

1714128077

[1714128077]

1714128077

[msin]

They are most definitely a competitor and probably not even on Ethereum's radar. 

Not on Ethereum's radar? It seems to me that pre-Maidsafe Ethereum was all about Decentralized Autonomous Organisations and contracts, and now its all about Decentralized Apps and making a new internet. Don't get me wrong - I like the expansion to cover more different things, but I suspect it was partly inspired by Maidsafe.

Yes, I was more referring to the willingness to work with Maidafe in general, which I think not a chance.

[freedomfighter]

Ursium Hi,

Few questions on how ether the token can gain value:

Obviously, the more demand for the token, the more value it will generate. However, specifically:

1) will if be required as a fee for every transaction? is there a fee structure?

2) will dac's be required to use ether to found themselves and pay dividends in ether only or will they be able to pay dividends in any currency including BTC? 

3) what are the other example of uses for ether that will drive its REAL value in the short and longer term aside from speculation.

4) can ether become a currency like token with which i'll be able to buy in overstock for example (which will accept ether as they are BTC) or will it only be used as a currency for applications on top of the ethereum platform?


Thanks

[yweetot]

Sinkhole

[mcjavar]

Also, in the youtube video you provided of Gavin's presentation, the question/answer part of the presentation which happened after his speech was cut out from this version. When I watched this some time ago, I found the Q and A part to be the most interesting and informative part of the speech. Do you have a link to the FULL version, unedited?

It's still very much up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMbBsdE45U

I'll trace back your questions. I find it very difficult to deal with this thread between the 'satanic vitalik' comments and the 'scam' libel. It's not exactly super motivating to wake up to this, which I guess, is the whole point of trolling.

To be fair you're much better off jumping our forums at this point, http://forum.ethereum.org.

In this case, the 8000BTC you already got, should provide enough motivation to answer all questions here.

[BigOrangeBee]

In this case, the 8000BTC you already got, should provide enough motivation to answer all questions here.

Hehe, I think the opposite rule would apply. Why should he answer all questions here? They already got 8000 BTC.

I keep wondering about what this ether sale really is, though. It very much looks more like a crowdfunding event than an investment or a software sale. There has been a lot of attention given to the financial and legal aspects of Ethereum, not to mention the massive PR effort on the part of the developers/founders. A lot of the technical issues, like the problem of blockchain bloat are problems "to be dealt with in time" but these are problems that absolutely cripple the chances of Ethereum even working and fulfilling its endeavors.

Unlike past large scale explosions of technology from the open source community, for example, Linux, the business side of this has not been ignored, and the product is not being offered for free as all open source has been in the past. The Ethereum client (inside a browser or eventually an OS) might be offered for free, however, you would not be able to use it without ethers, which cost money.

So there are huge efforts in the business, legal, and PR aspects of this, which we have never seen before in the past. And many of the technical problems with actually making the software work are being pushed off to be dealt with at a later time. That undermines my confidence in it.

Although, I do believe its time for developers and the "smart people" of the world to get the financial compensation that they deserve. And this might be why the founders have put so much effort into the business and legal side. Developers, techies, and "geeks" worldwide have been exploited and forced to take small compensation for work that their employers or clients would never be able to do or even understand. The true order should be that the smartest people should be the bosses, and not be exploited by people less intelligent than themselves.

So in that way, I respect how the Ethereum founders have taken the business side very seriously, and hopefully they will raise the standard for open source software globally. There's too many intelligent people doing hard work for zero or very little pay, trying to support their efforts on only donations. It's certainly time to change that, when their efforts are so important, for example, Wikipedia is a huge and very important source of information for the world and they live on donations.

Back to the ether sale. Despite what I wrote above, I think 2000 ether per 1 bitcoin, is a very HIGH price to pay for a token that has no value yet in anything but Ethereum, which is a software that still has so many technical issues to accomplish if it will survive long term.

But my confusion lies in whether I believe the founders really care whether Ethereum survives long term. This I can't decide. From my research, it seems to me that all the effort put into Ethereum has culminated to this point, the ether sale, and this is the harvest for the seeds that have been planted many months ago. I have heard things being mentioned by the founders (they like to be called founders, not devs) which suggest that their efforts were to get to this point and after Ethereum goes live, they seek to recruit a new team to take over and continue the project. I'm not sure if that is correct, but that was my impression from some of things being said by them. I could be wrong there.

But 0.0005 bitcoin per 1 ether is a very high initial price for something that will only be used by developers at first to build applications. But if you're quick enough, it may be worth it. My feeling is that hype and PR are a huge part of this, and very key and important people who were responsible for getting bitcoin off its feet and into the mainstream are the same people who are involved with Ethereum. There are certainly HUGE whales behind this project.

So regarding the value of ethers: I think it will pump above the pre-sale price initially with help from PR and hype, and several large whales who want to see this project succeed. Then after the dust settles, a few weeks or months after it goes live, I believe the value will fall to below the pre-sale price.

This is all pure speculation and I really have no idea. Just trying to work out my thoughts on this in a public space and hopefully get some feedback from people who have no investment in its success or failure, and are able to give an objective opinion.

[llocally]

I'm not sure if I should invest in Ethereum...

[FrictionlessCoin]

I wasn't aware that Ethereum was working on a decentralized internet...

That's pretty much the whole purpose of our project MemoryShock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGIeSCgskc

Skip to 50:00 for screenshots or refer to this handy pdf of the slides:

http://www.slideshare.net/ethereum/the-ethereum-experience

Thank you for that; I somehow missed that in all of the reading I was doing.

Any plans to work with Maidsafe or are they a competitor?

They are most definitely a competitor and probably not even on Ethereum's radar. 

Not on Ethereum's radar? It seems to me that pre-Maidsafe Ethereum was all about Decentralized Autonomous Organisations and contracts, and now its all about Decentralized Apps and making a new internet. Don't get me wrong - I like the expansion to cover more different things, but I suspect it was partly inspired by Maidsafe.

Agree with this observation,  that Ethereum seems to have tweaked their message to something about 'Decentralized Apps' that Maidsafe originated.

[llocally]

I wasn't aware that Ethereum was working on a decentralized internet...

That's pretty much the whole purpose of our project MemoryShock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGIeSCgskc

Skip to 50:00 for screenshots or refer to this handy pdf of the slides:

http://www.slideshare.net/ethereum/the-ethereum-experience

Thank you for that; I somehow missed that in all of the reading I was doing.

Any plans to work with Maidsafe or are they a competitor?

They are most definitely a competitor and probably not even on Ethereum's radar. 

Not on Ethereum's radar? It seems to me that pre-Maidsafe Ethereum was all about Decentralized Autonomous Organisations and contracts, and now its all about Decentralized Apps and making a new internet. Don't get me wrong - I like the expansion to cover more different things, but I suspect it was partly inspired by Maidsafe.

Agree with this observation,  that Ethereum seems to have tweaked their message to something about 'Decentralized Apps' that Maidsafe originated.

so we had to wait so long for Ethereum ...   

[dragnar]

thats a nice amount of bitcoin in the wallets of a couple of peeps ( 5 million usd LOL ) prob way more in a couple of years

what have they dont till now ( nice website and shit ton of talks )

even if this turns out to be ( profitable ) i will not touch it

[rapport]

In this case, the 8000BTC you already got, should provide enough motivation to answer all questions here.

Hehe, I think the opposite rule would apply. Why should he answer all questions here? They already got 8000 BTC.

I keep wondering about what this ether sale really is, though. It very much looks more like a crowdfunding event than an investment or a software sale. There has been a lot of attention given to the financial and legal aspects of Ethereum, not to mention the massive PR effort on the part of the developers/founders. A lot of the technical issues, like the problem of blockchain bloat are problems "to be dealt with in time" but these are problems that absolutely cripple the chances of Ethereum even working and fulfilling its endeavors.

Unlike past large scale explosions of technology from the open source community, for example, Linux, the business side of this has not been ignored, and the product is not being offered for free as all open source has been in the past. The Ethereum client (inside a browser or eventually an OS) might be offered for free, however, you would not be able to use it without ethers, which cost money.

So there are huge efforts in the business, legal, and PR aspects of this, which we have never seen before in the past. And many of the technical problems with actually making the software work are being pushed off to be dealt with at a later time. That undermines my confidence in it.

Although, I do believe its time for developers and the "smart people" of the world to get the financial compensation that they deserve. And this might be why the founders have put so much effort into the business and legal side. Developers, techies, and "geeks" worldwide have been exploited and forced to take small compensation for work that their employers or clients would never be able to do or even understand. The true order should be that the smartest people should be the bosses, and not be exploited by people less intelligent than themselves.

So in that way, I respect how the Ethereum founders have taken the business side very seriously, and hopefully they will raise the standard for open source software globally. There's too many intelligent people doing hard work for zero or very little pay, trying to support their efforts on only donations. It's certainly time to change that, when their efforts are so important, for example, Wikipedia is a huge and very important source of information for the world and they live on donations.

Back to the ether sale. Despite what I wrote above, I think 2000 ether per 1 bitcoin, is a very HIGH price to pay for a token that has no value yet in anything but Ethereum, which is a software that still has so many technical issues to accomplish if it will survive long term.

But my confusion lies in whether I believe the founders really care whether Ethereum survives long term. This I can't decide. From my research, it seems to me that all the effort put into Ethereum has culminated to this point, the ether sale, and this is the harvest for the seeds that have been planted many months ago. I have heard things being mentioned by the founders (they like to be called founders, not devs) which suggest that their efforts were to get to this point and after Ethereum goes live, they seek to recruit a new team to take over and continue the project. I'm not sure if that is correct, but that was my impression from some of things being said by them. I could be wrong there.

But 0.005 bitcoin per 1 ether is a very high initial price for something that will only be used by developers at first to build applications. But if you're quick enough, it may be worth it. My feeling is that hype and PR are a huge part of this, and very key and important people who were responsible for getting bitcoin off its feet and into the mainstream are the same people who are involved with Ethereum. There are certainly HUGE whales behind this project.

So regarding the value of ethers: I think it will pump above the pre-sale price initially with help from PR and hype, and several large whales who want to see this project succeed. Then after the dust settles, a few weeks or months after it goes live, I believe the value will fall to below the pre-sale price.

This is all pure speculation and I really have no idea. Just trying to work out my thoughts on this in a public space and hopefully get some feedback from people who have no investment in its success or failure, and are able to give an objective opinion.

>But 0.005 bitcoin per 1 ether is a very high initial price

You either made a mistake typing, or will be happy to know it's 10 times cheaper than what you think:
1/2000 = 0.0005

[Henrietta.UK]

Almost 9000BTC...good luck with ETH.ETH has a great communiy.

[xibeijan]

Not sure what to make of it.  Will IPO investors become bag holders?  The IPO goes until September, at which point there could be 100Mil ETH....

[rapport]

https://blockchain.info/address/36PrZ1KHYMpqSyAQXSG8VwbUiq2EogxLo2

Why are they sending 0.0001 outputs to change addresses?

Related to mining fee?

[BigOrangeBee]

>But 0.005 bitcoin per 1 ether is a very high initial price

You either made a mistake typing, or will be happy to know it's 10 times cheaper than what you think:
1/2000 = 0.0005

Yes, it was a typo, I corrected it.

[superresistant]

People here keep using words like "dump", "investment", "IPO", and these words are not relevant because Ethereum is not an altcoin, and ethers are not a currency, they are tokens to be used to work within the Ethereum space and create and use DApps. Legally, ethers are considered purchased software.

These technical words apply here. It doesn't matter if it's a currency, a token, an asset or a share. It behave the same way.
Ethereum investment is made through an IPO.

Believe it or not, many people have bought ethers simply to support the efforts of the developers to create a decentralized foundation for a new internet, and they are not looking to pump and dump when it hits the market.

If you gave money to support a project, good for you but Ethereum chose to do an IPO and give the investors the ability to trade the tokens.
Therefore we are talking about value, offer, demand, ...pump & dump.
If you don't agree with that, you must not invest.

F***ing wall street mentality.

Do I have to remind you that people from Goldman Sachs are backing the project and using it to make money for the sake of making money ?

I am so tired of listening to people like superresistant,

... so there is a lot of people like me ? I would be glad if you could introduce me to them.

who talk crap about everything and don't know anything. Free speech is a right that we all value but it aspires to create good ideas and have real communication. People like superresistant fill the threads with the written equivalent of cow manure. Stop stinking up this forum.

From a (very probable) sockpuppet account that registered only for the 777coin.com promotion.

Username: orange

Gracias!

BigOrangeBee Credibility -100

It's ok to not agree with me and discuss but insulting me behind noob account is not acceptable.

[FrictionlessCoin]

The original intention of Ethereum was to raise roughly 35 million USD.

With 18,559,839 ETH sold at 2,000 ETH/BTC that comes up to 5.3 million USD invested so far. 

In contrast MAIDsafe raised around 6 million USD on their own IPO.   

These two coins are the strongest competitors in terms of the development resources that are backing the project.  The superiority of one over the other is completely debatable.   

It is however clear that Ethereum intends/believes that it needs greater funding for development.   Ripple is another coin that has strong development support,  I recall it initially have VC funding.  I am unaware of how much VC funding they received.

The crypto-currency space is becoming now more competitive in that coins are going beyond the simple cut-and-paste clone like Litecoin and moving to coins that are heavily backed by development.  It is anybody's guess who will come up on top.   

[profitofthegods]

The original intention of Ethereum was to raise roughly 35 million USD.

With 18,559,839 ETH sold at 2,000 ETH/BTC that comes up to 5.3 million USD invested so far. 

In contrast MAIDsafe raised around 6 million USD on their own IPO.   

These two coins are the strongest competitors in terms of the development resources that are backing the project.  The superiority of one over the other is completely debatable.   

It is however clear that Ethereum intends/believes that it needs greater funding for development.   Ripple is another coin that has strong development support,  I recall it initially have VC funding.  I am unaware of how much VC funding they received.

The crypto-currency space is becoming now more competitive in that coins are going beyond the simple cut-and-paste clone like Litecoin and moving to coins that are heavily backed by development.  It is anybody's guess who will come up on top.   

I believe Ripple has raised more money than either Maidsafe or Ethereum so far, at $9 million - and they continue to run new funding rounds on a fairly regular basis so I am sure they will end up raising a lot more than that. And of course that is just VC funding, we don't know how much if any of their XRP they have sold.

Etheruem may well equal that by the end of its sale though, because the way its structured means some people may be waiting till the end of the sale to see how expensive its become before deciding how much, if any, to buy.

[FrictionlessCoin]

The original intention of Ethereum was to raise roughly 35 million USD.

With 18,559,839 ETH sold at 2,000 ETH/BTC that comes up to 5.3 million USD invested so far.  

In contrast MAIDsafe raised around 6 million USD on their own IPO.  

These two coins are the strongest competitors in terms of the development resources that are backing the project.  The superiority of one over the other is completely debatable.  

It is however clear that Ethereum intends/believes that it needs greater funding for development.   Ripple is another coin that has strong development support,  I recall it initially have VC funding.  I am unaware of how much VC funding they received.

The crypto-currency space is becoming now more competitive in that coins are going beyond the simple cut-and-paste clone like Litecoin and moving to coins that are heavily backed by development.  It is anybody's guess who will come up on top.  

I believe Ripple has raised more money than either Maidsafe or Ethereum so far, at $9 million - and they continue to run new funding rounds on a fairly regular basis so I am sure they will end up raising a lot more than that. And of course that is just VC funding, we don't know how much if any of their XRP they have sold.

Etheruem may well equal that by the end of its sale though, because the way its structured means some people may be waiting till the end of the sale to see how expensive its become before deciding how much, if any, to buy.

Do you recall how much Mastercoin was able to raise?  

A strong development organization or community is critical for any crypto-currency.  They've been many complaints that the Bitcoin development community lacks funding.

Ethereum is promising in that at least they have their development funding squared away.   The same can be said about Maidsafe.

Money of course doesn't guarantee success.  Mastercoin a while ago had a massive war chest, unfortunately I think their development is dropping the ball.

Counterparty runs a lean staff, they've done much better than Mastercoin despite less development funds.

Bytecoin/Monero seem to have active developers, however there seems to be some infighting going on over there.

Development funding is a doubled edged sword,  if you raise too much then your valuation may be to high for any investor to make a profit.  That is my current concern with Ethereum. 

[Aru Hasa-Special]

A listing, it will be much heavy selling ah .........