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Author Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning  (Read 1803281 times)
ffssixtynine
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March 27, 2014, 08:56:44 AM
 #1401

mining ether is already possible?

I heard on LTB today that they'd start selling ether very soon -- like within a month.

That is not gonna happen... It is Q4 or later...

I was at an Ethereum meet last night. The sale will happen next quarter, expected to be within a month (so said an Ethereum team member). Ethereum itself won't be ready until Q4 earliest, and even then it'll be very early days.
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March 27, 2014, 09:00:19 AM
 #1402

mining ether is already possible?

I heard on LTB today that they'd start selling ether very soon -- like within a month.

That is not gonna happen... It is Q4 or later...

I was at an Ethereum meet last night. The sale will happen next quarter, expected to be within a month (so said an Ethereum team member). Ethereum itself won't be ready until Q4 earliest, and even then it'll be very early days.


Ok but then this is news. Until recently the word was that it will be in Q4.

Also i am not sure how i feel about investing in one month and receiving something in Q4 and then being restricted from selling it for XX months

ffssixtynine
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March 27, 2014, 09:10:11 AM
 #1403

Ok but then this is news. Until recently the word was that it will be in Q4.

Also i am not sure how i feel about investing in one month and receiving something in Q4 and then being restricted from selling it for XX months

I can only say what was told to people last night. Maybe there is some confusion over when you can invest and when you can actually use Ethereum because that's Q4.

I'm pretty sure you can still sell, but you can't use ether so you would sell your investment rather than your actual ether. If that makes sense.

As an investment it's going to be very risky for a lot of reasons. I'll be interested to see what they put together for the actual offer.
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March 27, 2014, 11:05:18 AM
 #1404

Ok but then this is news. Until recently the word was that it will be in Q4.

Also i am not sure how i feel about investing in one month and receiving something in Q4 and then being restricted from selling it for XX months

I can only say what was told to people last night. Maybe there is some confusion over when you can invest and when you can actually use Ethereum because that's Q4.

I'm pretty sure you can still sell, but you can't use ether so you would sell your investment rather than your actual ether. If that makes sense.

As an investment it's going to be very risky for a lot of reasons. I'll be interested to see what they put together for the actual offer.

So, how can I sell it? any exchange available at that time?

NEM Coin 100% built from scratch
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March 27, 2014, 11:08:43 AM
 #1405

What will determine the starting price of ethereum?
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March 27, 2014, 11:30:24 AM
 #1406

This coin looked really exciting, but after thinking about this for 5 minutes, I have some questions:

1. The VM is too low level, efficient algorithms cannot be used.

It seems that contracts will have to use a fixed number of instructions.  If a contract tries to use any randomized data structure or any structure that is not completely deterministic, then it is vulnerable to DoS.  Any contract that tries to keep some ethers stashed away in order to use algorithms that work well on average is vulnerable to DoS.

This indicates to me that the VM should be at a higher level where concepts such as collections of items, priority queues etc. are available.  The implementation can then use efficient data structures, making contracts more versatile and cheaper for everybody.

This doesn't just move the DoS problem to miners.  Miners can change the implementation of these data structures dynamically or at will.

This inefficiency means that a competing implementation of this idea will have better applications.


2. How are contracts updated when resource pricing changes?

When the developers choose to change the fees, how can contracts be updated?  If a business is started based on a given contract, and the developers change the base fee, the business might be killed.  This makes the setting of the base fee a highly controversial issue, potentially with lawsuits from businesses relying on this.

This is complicated by contracts carrying state.  An incumbent gets an advantage by knowing the current resource prices.

3. Extra pricing for reading foreign memory runs counter to a robust security architecture for contracts.

For complex services implemented as contracts, it would be desirable to isolate subcomponents or services as separate contracts.  The extra cost incurred by doing proper isolation of the memory space means that a competing service with a worse security architecture needs lower fees.  This is bad.

4. Is reliable time available to contracts?

Without reliable time, no specific time can be given for elections, which renders them useless.

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March 27, 2014, 12:48:23 PM
 #1407

This coin looked really exciting, but after thinking about this for 5 minutes, I have some questions:
1. The VM is too low level, efficient algorithms cannot be used.
It seems that contracts will have to use a fixed number of instructions.  If a contract tries to use any randomized data structure or any structure that is not completely deterministic, then it is vulnerable to DoS.  Any contract that tries to keep some ethers stashed away in order to use algorithms that work well on average is vulnerable to DoS.
This indicates to me that the VM should be at a higher level where concepts such as collections of items, priority queues etc. are available.  The implementation can then use efficient data structures, making contracts more versatile and cheaper for everybody.
This doesn't just move the DoS problem to miners.  Miners can change the implementation of these data structures dynamically or at will.
This inefficiency means that a competing implementation of this idea will have better applications.
2. How are contracts updated when resource pricing changes?
When the developers choose to change the fees, how can contracts be updated?  If a business is started based on a given contract, and the developers change the base fee, the business might be killed.  This makes the setting of the base fee a highly controversial issue, potentially with lawsuits from businesses relying on this.
This is complicated by contracts carrying state.  An incumbent gets an advantage by knowing the current resource prices.
3. Extra pricing for reading foreign memory runs counter to a robust security architecture for contracts.
For complex services implemented as contracts, it would be desirable to isolate subcomponents or services as separate contracts.  The extra cost incurred by doing proper isolation of the memory space means that a competing service with a worse security architecture needs lower fees.  This is bad.
4. Is reliable time available to contracts?
Without reliable time, no specific time can be given for elections, which renders them useless.

Well said astor.

In case people don't understand, Ethereum project want to make the impossible. Simple as that.

You can have all the faith and hope, if Ethereum project can't be done, it can't be done.

I know it is hard to accept it because of all the great promises of "changing the world and blabla" but you better forget about it and go on.

PS : That's just my opinion. Keep waiting for the messiah if you like.
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March 28, 2014, 01:41:13 PM
 #1408

sorry for the ignorance, but when begin the fundraising?

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March 29, 2014, 05:52:49 AM
 #1409

sorry for the ignorance, but when begin the fundraising?
+1
Have a little understanding of the Ethereum Ecosystem
greentea
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March 29, 2014, 06:11:46 AM
 #1410


I was at an Ethereum meet last night. The sale will happen next quarter, expected to be within a month (so said an Ethereum team member). Ethereum itself won't be ready until Q4 earliest, and even then it'll be very early days.


Classic IPO ... investing in an idea before anything is done, they have to pay all their founders, staff, and partners somehow.  What's the premine at these days?

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kelpy
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March 29, 2014, 04:48:52 PM
 #1411


I was at an Ethereum meet last night. The sale will happen next quarter, expected to be within a month (so said an Ethereum team member). Ethereum itself won't be ready until Q4 earliest, and even then it'll be very early days.


Classic IPO ... investing in an idea before anything is done,

No, you can just use and test Ethereum client and protocol.

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March 29, 2014, 08:19:13 PM
 #1412

NXT is also "Turing complete" with their Automatic Transactions feature. It will probably compete with Ethereum.

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March 29, 2014, 08:59:48 PM
 #1413

NXT is also "Turing complete" with their Automatic Transactions feature. It will probably compete with Ethereum.


Seriusly? Where can i see that?

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March 29, 2014, 09:01:09 PM
 #1414

NXT is also "Turing complete" with their Automatic Transactions feature. It will probably compete with Ethereum.


Seriusly? Where can i see that?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=463731.0
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March 30, 2014, 01:20:07 AM
 #1415

The nxt implememtation of turing languae is called AT or automated transactions.  Its not live yet though. hopefully soon!
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March 30, 2014, 08:14:33 AM
 #1416


also here a detailed description:

http://ciyam.org/nxt/

◈▣ KOMODO ● Set Your Ideas Free ▣◈
.......AN ECOSYSTEM FOR NATIVE BLOCKCHAINS.......
Blockchain Generator | Decentralized Crowdfunding | Decentralized Exchange | Bitcoin Security | Zero-Knowledge Proofs | Blockchain Interoperability | Scalable Infrastructure
bitcoinpaul
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March 30, 2014, 04:16:02 PM
 #1417

Now they get nervous Wink
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April 01, 2014, 09:27:02 AM
 #1418

This is one of the most ambitious projects to be undertaken in the cryptoworld.

It could be a game changer IF the ethereum developers can deliver what they promise and develop a robust platform for services to be easily build upon. Watching closely. 

When is the IPO going to take place ?     
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April 01, 2014, 06:50:32 PM
 #1419

This is one of the most ambitious projects to be undertaken in the cryptoworld.

It could be a game changer IF the ethereum developers can deliver what they promise and develop a robust platform for services to be easily build upon. Watching closely. 

When is the IPO going to take place ?     

Q4 of 2014
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April 01, 2014, 07:06:39 PM
 #1420

This is one of the most ambitious projects to be undertaken in the cryptoworld.

It could be a game changer IF the ethereum developers can deliver what they promise and develop a robust platform for services to be easily build upon. Watching closely.  

When is the IPO going to take place ?    

Q4 of 2014

Good, that way we will be investing in something closer to a finished product and not just based on powerpoint presentations.  
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