[ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain

[domob]

i've made hunters, i figured out that the lighter colored squares are the bank so i go and collect the reward for the coins there.
if i click destruct, i pay 20 huc but it only destructs when i hit a bank. it does not destruct when another players hunter is nearby.
other players have destroyed 2 of my hunters, but their hunter is still alive. how does this work? i don't get it. other players i've come close to haven't killed me and i wasn't able to kill them by clicking destruct.

It used to be that "destruct" actually killed your hunter, as well as others around you.  That was changed, now destruct "only" costs you the 20 HUC fee - but you still potentially kill hunters around you (depending on how much life they have left).  Just getting close to others has no effect.  Also note that the time when your destruct tx is actually mined counts, which is not entirely predictable from the time when you hit the button.

[qumatru]

i managed to kill another hunter. i pressed destruct once and nothing happened. then he came on my square and i pressed it again and i won. could you explain this in more detail so that i know what i have to do? i see one of my hunters has 400 life

[wiggi]

i've made hunters, i figured out that the lighter colored squares are the bank

i managed to kill another hunter. i pressed destruct once and nothing happened. then he came on my square and i pressed it again and i won. could you explain this in more detail so that i know what i have to do? i see one of my hunters has 400 life

Use one of the 3 "alternative clients" that are linked in OP. If using BetterQt, just press middle mouse button to get un-blindfolded
and see what's happening on the map.

Btw, I've put large parts of the functionality that was previously only in the binary releases on Github yesterday, now it's viable to play Huntercoin with an open source client. (once again after a long long time really). Did a test run and it killed an ik while afk, so I give it a good to go

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Not going to spam this thread anymore, but I have to repeat.

This coin would be so valuable, not just financially, if there were a simple game any person can play quickly, with no learning curve, no language barrier, no technical limiters.

We agree, and are moving in that direction, but limited resources are reducing the speed at which we do. You have to remember that this coin is running on no pre-mine, ICO or investment capital right now. The latter is likely to change in the future, but the former two will not, and that's probably why some people keep calling Huntercoin "ethical."

If you or anybody you know wants to help speed things along, please let us know. We're all chipping in spare time, for now. Price isn't high enough yet for us to be selling HUC enough to cover living expenses

[wiggi]

This coin would be so valuable, not just financially, if there were a simple game any person can play quickly, with no learning curve, no language barrier, no technical limiters.

Agreed.

Simple game...Huntercoin had a "newbie area" in the past. Remember the rush out of the gates after disasters? It was possible to get loot from dead hunters, with some luck 100 coins from dead guys who wanted to carry loot from center to the bank strip in the corners.

This wasn't trivial, and bots usually lost the first tempo while going through the gate. For 250 blocks, until different colored armies met, no one was killed, and players could stop playing at any time (i.e. all hunters nearer to own base than the enemy) I usually got >1000 coins on such a day (if by chance was aware and could play in this moment)

The removal of name_new would have made this even more practical, but something bad happened. A hardfork removed all dropping of loot on disaster death, essentially handing over all spawning coins to the dominator (who camped the center and was unattackable by anyone without infinite time, and could now bank without risk) and the Dark Ages began. That was a long time ago.

The real problem is the question how to decide such things and what is better for Huntercoin, absolute monarchy, or some kind of shareholder democracy (+ constitutional monarchy of course).


Or something else? The simple game will not get made if there is no chance to get it into Huntercoin mainnet. That's why I made a voting system (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435170.msg14541434#msg14541434) and everyone can call for votes.

e.g hunter Bob on his way to bank sends chat msg like this: (max length is ~1000 chars)

Code:

# This coin need to do exactly xy and z or will rot
etc etc
1 yea, kinda
2 no way
3 for the revolution of the world!

and immediately after that, the last tx this wallet should send until block 1339975 (it's a bit late for 1329975, and perhaps using sendtoname for big numbers is like asking for a nasty typo)

Code:

sendtoname Bob <big_number>.31339975

Try it out, you'll have my vote!

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

... If you or anybody you know wants to help speed things along, please let us know. We're all chipping in spare time, for now. Price isn't high enough yet for us to be selling HUC enough to cover living expenses

If I see some people trying to chop down a tree with a baseball bat, and they ask me to help, what should I do? I tell them "Don't do it that way". When they start using an axe or a chain saw I will get dirty, til then no reason.

I think it's unfair to liken what domob is doing to whacking a tree with a bat. He is developing a click-and-play client under 1 GB in size. That will decrease the technical requirements of the game, which you have acknowledged as being one of the obstacles to mainstream adoption. It's just going slowly because he and SnailBrain both have "real" jobs

Once done, we can all focus more on improving the gameplay to make things less confusing. Wiggi has been doing a great job coming up with ideas for that, but we can't implement them quite yet, which is a shame. That's why I've been asking if anybody wants to help speed things along... I was trying to be sincere and not snarky or anything 

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I don't understand clearly the "click-and-play client under 1 GB", what the finished product might be. Is it basically the hunter game, but a more manageable set up for most people? My strongest suggestion, again and again, is that if you make an ultra simple game, as one of many options for human miners perhaps, a game that an illiterate person can play within a few minutes of being shown, then Huntercoin will skyrocket and the Human mineable aspect will start to develop an importance you might not yet sense.

Yes, it will use blockchain pruning to keep the file size small. There will just a .exe you can click and play. Then it can be adapted to the other clients, like MithrilMan's, which comes with a tutorial for new players.

From what I understand, testing has been a huge bottleneck for us--SnailBrain was doing it, himself. I believe the client is currently "done," but the bugs aren't all fixed, yet.

[domob]

From what I understand, testing has been a huge bottleneck for us--SnailBrain was doing it, himself. I believe the client is currently "done," but the bugs aren't all fixed, yet.

Yes, exactly.  I've been running the client (just syncing the chain and keeping a wallet, not doing any playing) for some time now, without any issues.  There seems to be a bug related to name_list which is keeping the Unity client from correctly functioning with the new client, but we're working on that.  Apart from this, I'm not aware of any issues - so feel free to test with other clients.

Also, miners, feel free to try using the new client - maybe a little careful in the beginning (I'm not aware of any miner yet using the new client in production), but I am not aware of any issues that prevent mining from taking place with the new client.

[wiggi]

Yes, it will use blockchain pruning to keep the file size small. There will just a .exe you can click and play. Then it can be adapted to the other clients, like MithrilMan's, which comes with a tutorial for new players.

I was under the impression that Huntercore can be built as a windowed, Qt- based executable only in principle, but without functionality for gameplay.
To play, you must plug another client into it. The advantage is, players on Windows get a stable system (using MithrilMan's client) and a smaller initial download.

This would be fine and dandy if Snail would vow, in case of a game rule change or other hard fork, to update the old Qt-client so it remains compatible. Otherwise it's a plan to burn bridges and force everyone to play the game using proprietary software, at least for some time.

[wiggi]

5) Look at Neucoin, which is utter garbage compared to Huntercoin, except in one regard. Neucoin is an ico, premine, corporate coin with no redeeming qualities but one. It actually has a game that can be played by anybody. "solitaire racer" is a game on facebook where essentially people "human mine" neucoin. If you look under the hood it does not compare to Huntercoin, but superficially they are doing what Huntercoin should have started already. A lot of people in Asia "human mine" the neucoins, you can play the solitaire racer game and see most players are in less developed asian countries. A simple game, a person who speaks any language and has no schooling can play and make a few pennies. The mechanics of neucoin are different than HUC, so the coin does not benefit from their "human mining", which is actually just "premine distribution". 

Any person can play because the game is so simple, or any person can play because no coins required to play?

What are other examples, would you say a game like the original Rogue (the gameplay, not the old-school interface) is also so simple that anyone can play? (if you don't need coins to start playing)

[domob]

Yes, it will use blockchain pruning to keep the file size small. There will just a .exe you can click and play. Then it can be adapted to the other clients, like MithrilMan's, which comes with a tutorial for new players.

I was under the impression that Huntercore can be built as a windowed, Qt- based executable only in principle, but without functionality for gameplay.
To play, you must plug another client into it. The advantage is, players on Windows get a stable system (using MithrilMan's client) and a smaller initial download.

That is not quite correct - the client is not graphical at all (also not Windows-based if you mean that) and does not use Qt.  It is just like the Bitcoin Core daemon client (bitcoind) and like the old huntercoind.

This would be fine and dandy if Snail would vow, in case of a game rule change or other hard fork, to update the old Qt-client so it remains compatible. Otherwise it's a plan to burn bridges and force everyone to play the game using proprietary software, at least for some time.

To be honest, I personally don't have any plans to keep updating the old client code and I don't think snailbrain has, either - that's just not a good use of scarce development time.  But I hear you on proprietary clients, and am with you there - I'm myself a big believer in free software and have actually never used any of the proprietary clients myself.  But I don't play, either, so that does not really count.

Do you think it would be feasible for your client to either rebase on the new codebase or switch to using the RPC interface for the core blockchain daemon?

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Apologies for my misunderstanding about domob's client, before. I think it is still true, however, that once his work is completed, it can and probably will be adapted to MithrilMan and wiggi's clients. It would be nice to keep the open source version more up to date, but that's another thing we need more development help for. Another would be building a web/mobile client.

Anyways, when the blockchain pruning addition is complete, domob will have time to make minor protocol changes required to allow wiggi to build his Huntercoin 2.0 (Can we call it that?) stuff on top of the base Huntercoin network. Technically, this is analogous to something like Counterparty, but practically, it may actually make the game much simpler. He can build separate play areas for people of different skill levels, which addresses one of the major points no-ice-please made.

There's no reason MithrilMan couldn't incorporate all of those features in his easy-to-play client with the tutorial. Sure, his is proprietary, but there are plenty of proprietary services on the Bitcoin network, and just look at the market cap, there. Huntercoin needs to be an ecosystem; snailbrain and domob are rather like managers, but not micromanagers, as its healthy for the community and its economy to evolve naturally. We just have to help it along and provide some guidance

So, I really think the right pieces are all here for Huntercoin to be successful, but I am sensing no-ice-please has more of a philosophical disagreement. I think human mining is very important to Huntercoin, but that it isn't necessarily the primary focus. If we go that route, there would be no reason to care if it's a video game, at all--other tasks might be more suitable. Huntercoin, however, is revolutionary in that it is the first autonomous MMO--to the extent that it is self-regulating, we could even call this game world somewhat "alive." Years from now, Huntercoin or its successor will obsolete Blizzard's central server system.

[snailbrain]

..... it would be cool if there was a module approach to games so a new dev could come in and say "I have a completely new game, a module, to plug into the Hunter core and let people play pacman, rogue, whatever.

this would allow it, but no one seems too interested -

http://forum.huntercoin.org/index.php/topic,22249.0.html

i'm sure there are better ways, but i think this is what you are saying in the most simple way.
Crypto coins can be minted as well, they would be similar to what mastercoins are to bitcoin (like wiggi's gems).
or it can just be a p2p game engine.
All people would need to do is design their own gamestate rules, then they can have an entirely new game with whatever rules they want.

[snailbrain]

A hardfork removed all dropping of loot on disaster death, essentially handing over all spawning coins to the dominator (who camped the center and was unattackable by anyone without infinite time, and could now bank without risk) and the Dark Ages began. That was a long time ago.

I thought at that time, the hunters picking up 99% of those dropped coins were automated bots which automatically spawned when a disaster struck.. or people with infinite time who could wait for a disaster..

--

The only real issue huntercoin has, is lack of funds/devs - so development is progressing but not at the rate we would like it to.

If someone has a good idea and the time/skill to implement it, i say put it forward and lets open a discussion.

I'm limited in what i can do at the moment - but if any developers want to help push the project then please do and get in contact, same for investors/funders.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

..... it would be cool if there was a module approach to games so a new dev could come in and say "I have a completely new game, a module, to plug into the Hunter core and let people play pacman, rogue, whatever.

this would allow it, but no one seems too interested -

http://forum.huntercoin.org/index.php/topic,22249.0.html

I'm interested. I just can't upgrade the Huntercoin client to do that, myself. I was just going to wait for domob to eventually get around to it and/or another developer volunteers. Initiatives like this are viral, I think, such that new developers won't feel compelled to contribute until existing developers push out enough new stuff to catch their attention.

Also, someone needs to stop killing our price rallies. I assume he or she will run out of HUC, eventually. Maybe a bagholding bot from Huntercoin's early days, or something

[wiggi]

..... it would be cool if there was a module approach to games so a new dev could come in and say "I have a completely new game, a module, to plug into the Hunter core and let people play pacman, rogue, whatever.

this would allow it, but no one seems too interested -

http://forum.huntercoin.org/index.php/topic,22249.0.html

I'm interested. I just can't upgrade the Huntercoin client to do that, myself. I was just going to wait for domob to eventually get around to it and/or another developer volunteers. Initiatives like this are viral, I think, such that new developers won't feel compelled to contribute until existing developers push out enough new stuff to catch their attention.

I still think the way to do it is a "spectator mode" for hunters, this has all advantages of the standard names, plus:

You probably could upgrade the client (give hunters the choice to be suspended from killing, being killed, and harvesting coins; easy implementation)

Hunters can switch modules, and communicate with hunters from other modules.
Example: no matter what they are currently playing, they can short chronoDollars (== use this particular "module") because, as hunters, they are in the main player loop, and show up in all clients. Standard names can't do that.

Can trade loot from one module for zorkmids from another module (if the module developers allow it)

And spectator mode solves the logout problem too

[wiggi]

To be honest, I personally don't have any plans to keep updating the old client code and I don't think snailbrain has, either - that's just not a good use of scarce development time.  But I hear you on proprietary clients, and am with you there - I'm myself a big believer in free software and have actually never used any of the proprietary clients myself.  But I don't play, either, so that does not really count.

Do you think it would be feasible for your client to either rebase on the new codebase or switch to using the RPC interface for the core blockchain daemon?

Even an "empty" Huntercore Qt client with only a console window and nothing else would be valuable for the development of a modern Huntercoin Qt client. But there's probably a good reason why Namecore/Huntercore don't use Qt at all.

Using the RPC interface from the core blockchain daemon is moderately difficult, keeping the old client code compatible seems to be the easiest option for now.

It's feasible to rebase the non-gameplay, trading stuff on the Huntercore codebase of course.

[wiggi]

So, you think "human mining" is not necessarily the "primary focus" of Huntercoin. I think it is the most important aspect and should be the primary focus. All other things, including the game itself, will not advance unless there is a bigger focus than the game itself, and HUC was lucky to have started the "human mineable" concept, which should not be minimized nor underestimated.

Who is right? I am. But I'll delete my previous posts on the page so nobody will call me a spammer, and I will leave the thread for a few days or weeks but I keep looking for ways to push Hunter devs towards genuine human mining.

I think your posts are a very interesting read, you shouldn't delete them.

[domob]

To be honest, I personally don't have any plans to keep updating the old client code and I don't think snailbrain has, either - that's just not a good use of scarce development time.  But I hear you on proprietary clients, and am with you there - I'm myself a big believer in free software and have actually never used any of the proprietary clients myself.  But I don't play, either, so that does not really count.

Do you think it would be feasible for your client to either rebase on the new codebase or switch to using the RPC interface for the core blockchain daemon?

Even an "empty" Huntercore Qt client with only a console window and nothing else would be valuable for the development of a modern Huntercoin Qt client. But there's probably a good reason why Namecore/Huntercore don't use Qt at all.

That's actually already present - Huntercoin Core includes the Qt UI of Bitcoin Core, which is fully functional (same in Namecoin).  So you can use it to manage your coins (without playing) from there, or use the console window - this may make it straight-forward for you to rebase your gaming UI onto it.

[e1ghtSpace]

.....  and let people play pacman, rogue, whatever.

this would allow it, but no one seems too interested -
http://forum.huntercoin.org/index.php/topic,22249.0.html

I'm interested. I just can't upgrade the Huntercoin client to do that, myself....

I still think the way to do it is ...

4) An important part of the game is that it should not have any aspect of 'waiting for the next block'. One of the biggest annoyances of one of the people I got to play the game was that waiting for a move is not good. Maybe a board starts with a small amount of "potential HUC" and each block updates the "potential HUC" that a player might earn, but the actual gameplay is seamless and does not involve waiting.

This (I believe) would allow bots to easily give themselves a win (aka cheat) every time, it might even be more profitable than playing the original game. I can't think of a situation where this isn't possible.

To be fair I haven't played this game for like, a year so I don't know much about it right now.