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Author Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers  (Read 829544 times)
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MoreBloodWine
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July 18, 2014, 12:03:14 AM
 #7441

Well, if this ends up coming to fruition then I guess ghash will be getting a big bump from people because that's where I'll be going as I suspect others will too when the pool closes if it ever does.

I'll go to everywhere, except GHASH.IO. There are lot of good guys still remaining. SLush, Eligius, p2pool, etc...
Ya but none that will offer the same earnings. Some could argue bitminter is good and while they are. They have days where thy don't find blocks and with the 3.2 Ths I have I should be seeing around 0.09x. So while Ghash has their downfalls, I will always go to them as a backup for earnings.

Ive tried others like slush etc. and while some also argue that a pools size doesn't mean much in the way of earnings the bottom line is that it does. Ghash has the blocks found for people to earn around what they should be seeing with the hash they have available.

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July 18, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
 #7442

Ya but none that will offer the same earnings. Some could argue bitminter is good and while they are. They have days where thy don't find blocks and with the 3.2 Ths I have I should be seeing around 0.09x. So while Ghash has their downfalls, I will always go to them as a backup for earnings.


Another greedy miner ready to join in on sinking the whole experiment for their short term gain, good work, I applaude thee.

Quote
Ive tried others like slush etc. and while some also argue that a pools size doesn't mean much in the way of earnings the bottom line is that it does. Ghash has the blocks found for people to earn around what they should be seeing with the hash they have available.

A pool's size doesn't matter in the long run if there are no bad actors.  You're just tripping up on daily numbers.
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July 18, 2014, 05:16:31 PM
 #7443

 ♫ "In ten years we're going to have one million lawyers..." ♫

Now we know what the surplus bastards are doing to earn a living.

1Eeyore17YeHrbJW5Q3pSdV8sXujkdrrFc
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July 18, 2014, 05:26:03 PM
 #7444

And so it begins.  New York regulators are now proposing things which would make it essentially illegal for anybody to use Bitcoin in that state without being registered. It is so over-reaching that it would even catch things like the Bitcoin tipbot on reddit, which would be an illegally operating entity if it allows you to tip a New York resident.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
Where are you / the pool based ?

I'm in PA.

Nevada currently, but this regulation would affect the pool if it has users in New York.  And I doubt a "I agree I'm not a resident of New York" checkbox would be enough.  Luckily this has 45 days of commenting, then review, and then there are 45 days after it's put into effect before it is enforced.  Quite frankly, if something even remotely close to what is currently open for comment goes into effect, the pool will probably be forced to close.

Living in the US makes trying to sidestep/ignore this a non-option.  I doubt they'd chase international pool owners, but depending on what country they're in, I wouldn't exactly assume they're safe (US doesn't have a history of respecting international borders when it comes to internet businesses).

I mean, I'd argue that under Section 200.3(c)(2) you're exempt as there's a strong case that you're merely a merchant purchasing hashpower in exchange for "virtual currency".

But still. I read this thing over and it sucks. I mean, it has some valid points but it's section 200.1(n)(1) that defines "Virtual Currency Business Activity" as "receiving Virtual Currency for transmission or transmitting the same" that's god damn ridiculous.

I happen to currently reside in New York and you bet your ass I'm submitting comment when it opens up on the 23rd. I have some weighty contacts in the NYC bitcoin community, and I'll be encouraging them strongly to submit comment and have others submit comments.

I want 200.1(n)(1) dropped entirely or made far more specific, and I want an additional exemption for mining pools.  

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July 18, 2014, 05:48:14 PM
 #7445

I have noticed, that user 561818 is doing something, that could be described as pool hopping. So, taking into consideration, that he has more than 1PH/s, is it possible, that we are having these bad and good luck fluctuations because of him continuously disconnecting and connecting back?

Thanks!
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July 18, 2014, 09:18:59 PM
 #7446

Ya but none that will offer the same earnings. Some could argue bitminter is good and while they are. They have days where thy don't find blocks and with the 3.2 Ths I have I should be seeing around 0.09x. So while Ghash has their downfalls, I will always go to them as a backup for earnings.


Another greedy miner ready to join in on sinking the whole experiment for their short term gain, good work, I applaude thee.

Quote
Ive tried others like slush etc. and while some also argue that a pools size doesn't mean much in the way of earnings the bottom line is that it does. Ghash has the blocks found for people to earn around what they should be seeing with the hash they have available.

A pool's size doesn't matter in the long run if there are no bad actors.  You're just tripping up on daily numbers.

It aint about greed, it's about me not going to a pool with 3.2 Th/s which should earn 0.09x a day and settling for whatever I get even if it was something like 0.04. I'm not the only one with this school of thought but probably the only one to speak up and not fear people like you who think were greedy when it has nothing do to with greed.

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jonnybravo0311
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July 18, 2014, 11:46:16 PM
 #7447

Ya but none that will offer the same earnings. Some could argue bitminter is good and while they are. They have days where thy don't find blocks and with the 3.2 Ths I have I should be seeing around 0.09x. So while Ghash has their downfalls, I will always go to them as a backup for earnings.


Another greedy miner ready to join in on sinking the whole experiment for their short term gain, good work, I applaude thee.

Quote
Ive tried others like slush etc. and while some also argue that a pools size doesn't mean much in the way of earnings the bottom line is that it does. Ghash has the blocks found for people to earn around what they should be seeing with the hash they have available.

A pool's size doesn't matter in the long run if there are no bad actors.  You're just tripping up on daily numbers.

It aint about greed, it's about me not going to a pool with 3.2 Th/s which should earn 0.09x a day and settling for whatever I get even if it was something like 0.04. I'm not the only one with this school of thought but probably the only one to speak up and not fear people like you who think were greedy when it has nothing do to with greed.
Take a look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416933.0

It's a pretty good experiment showing the earnings across multiple pools.  It has the benefit of being long-running as well.  There are other options than GHash.io.  They all pay pretty comparably to what you're seeing here.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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July 18, 2014, 11:58:10 PM
 #7448

Ya but none that will offer the same earnings. Some could argue bitminter is good and while they are. They have days where thy don't find blocks and with the 3.2 Ths I have I should be seeing around 0.09x. So while Ghash has their downfalls, I will always go to them as a backup for earnings.


Another greedy miner ready to join in on sinking the whole experiment for their short term gain, good work, I applaude thee.

Quote
Ive tried others like slush etc. and while some also argue that a pools size doesn't mean much in the way of earnings the bottom line is that it does. Ghash has the blocks found for people to earn around what they should be seeing with the hash they have available.

A pool's size doesn't matter in the long run if there are no bad actors.  You're just tripping up on daily numbers.

It aint about greed, it's about me not going to a pool with 3.2 Th/s which should earn 0.09x a day and settling for whatever I get even if it was something like 0.04. I'm not the only one with this school of thought but probably the only one to speak up and not fear people like you who think were greedy when it has nothing do to with greed.
Take a look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416933.0

It's a pretty good experiment showing the earnings across multiple pools.  It has the benefit of being long-running as well.  There are other options than GHash.io.  They all pay pretty comparably to what you're seeing here.
I'll definitely give that a look, Ty.

Just funny that a lot of people jump to greed when Ghash is involved without considering other things like what the person paid for their hardware etc.

Cost of hardware aside, everyone has a tipping point. I doubt dropt would be like ok, I've got 10Th and am seeing about 0.1 a day but that's ok bec shit happens. One of two days fine because that's luck for ya, but I know for a fact he wouldn't be singing that jolly ol tune if he kept seeing 0.1 a day for a week or more on 10 Th/s.

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July 19, 2014, 04:38:12 AM
 #7449

And so it begins.  New York regulators are now proposing things which would make it essentially illegal for anybody to use Bitcoin in that state without being registered. It is so over-reaching that it would even catch things like the Bitcoin tipbot on reddit, which would be an illegally operating entity if it allows you to tip a New York resident.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
I've read several articles about this proposal and most of them seem to give the same quote, that merchant and consumers using bitcoin strictly for the sale of Goods and Services are exempt. I view the fact that you collect a 2% fee for providing me the service of access to bitcoin mining software and a service of reasonable security protection from online attackers, makes you a simple merchant and 'us' the consumers of your service. Therefore "We" are not subject to the SDN verification as well as State Licensing. Though you may want to tweak the support page to make it clear 'You are only providing a Service and are not a Bank, Loan Agent, or Monetary Transfer Provider'.
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July 19, 2014, 05:13:14 AM
 #7450

The proposal also states mining does not need a license.
I have a feeling it is going to change quite a bit before it even gets close to being law.
There is already and uproar here in NY about the invasive privacy issue.


And so it begins.  New York regulators are now proposing things which would make it essentially illegal for anybody to use Bitcoin in that state without being registered. It is so over-reaching that it would even catch things like the Bitcoin tipbot on reddit, which would be an illegally operating entity if it allows you to tip a New York resident.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
I've read several articles about this proposal and most of them seem to give the same quote, that merchant and consumers using bitcoin strictly for the sale of Goods and Services are exempt. I view the fact that you collect a 2% fee for providing me the service of access to bitcoin mining software and a service of reasonable security protection from online attackers, makes you a simple merchant and 'us' the consumers of your service. Therefore "We" are not subject to the SDN verification as well as State Licensing. Though you may want to tweak the support page to make it clear 'You are only providing a Service and are not a Bank, Loan Agent, or Monetary Transfer Provider'.

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July 19, 2014, 05:20:40 AM
 #7451

And so it begins.  New York regulators are now proposing things which would make it essentially illegal for anybody to use Bitcoin in that state without being registered. It is so over-reaching that it would even catch things like the Bitcoin tipbot on reddit, which would be an illegally operating entity if it allows you to tip a New York resident.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
I've read several articles about this proposal and most of them seem to give the same quote, that merchant and consumers using bitcoin strictly for the sale of Goods and Services are exempt. I view the fact that you collect a 2% fee for providing me the service of access to bitcoin mining software and a service of reasonable security protection from online attackers, makes you a simple merchant and 'us' the consumers of your service. Therefore "We" are not subject to the SDN verification as well as State Licensing. Though you may want to tweak the support page to make it clear 'You are only providing a Service and are not a Bank, Loan Agent, or Monetary Transfer Provider'.

The problem is it isn't worth the risk to be operating in the grey area of how it's interpreted.  Prosecutors will always have the upper hand on that one, especially when they have could throw enough prosecutors/lawyers with a combined annual salary higher than the gross income received from the pool in its lifetime.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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July 19, 2014, 11:33:03 AM
 #7452

And so it begins.  New York regulators are now proposing things which would make it essentially illegal for anybody to use Bitcoin in that state without being registered. It is so over-reaching that it would even catch things like the Bitcoin tipbot on reddit, which would be an illegally operating entity if it allows you to tip a New York resident.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
I've read several articles about this proposal and most of them seem to give the same quote, that merchant and consumers using bitcoin strictly for the sale of Goods and Services are exempt. I view the fact that you collect a 2% fee for providing me the service of access to bitcoin mining software and a service of reasonable security protection from online attackers, makes you a simple merchant and 'us' the consumers of your service. Therefore "We" are not subject to the SDN verification as well as State Licensing. Though you may want to tweak the support page to make it clear 'You are only providing a Service and are not a Bank, Loan Agent, or Monetary Transfer Provider'.

A mining pool is not just buying hashpower and paying in units of a virtual currency, it is using that hashpower to create units of a virtual currency.
It can't sensibly be argued to be the same as a retailer accepting payments for goods.

BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
SRC: scefi1XMhq91n3oF5FrE3HqddVvvCZP9KB
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July 19, 2014, 10:48:15 PM
 #7453

So you are saying we should be ready for you to shut down without notice or be blocked based on the state we are in??
I understand not wanting to take the risk I am not belittling that at all.  I just want to have an idea what we need to plan for?
The proposal will not stand as is. It has already been pointed out that it violates federal privacy laws and interstate commerce laws.


And so it begins.  New York regulators are now proposing things which would make it essentially illegal for anybody to use Bitcoin in that state without being registered. It is so over-reaching that it would even catch things like the Bitcoin tipbot on reddit, which would be an illegally operating entity if it allows you to tip a New York resident.

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
I've read several articles about this proposal and most of them seem to give the same quote, that merchant and consumers using bitcoin strictly for the sale of Goods and Services are exempt. I view the fact that you collect a 2% fee for providing me the service of access to bitcoin mining software and a service of reasonable security protection from online attackers, makes you a simple merchant and 'us' the consumers of your service. Therefore "We" are not subject to the SDN verification as well as State Licensing. Though you may want to tweak the support page to make it clear 'You are only providing a Service and are not a Bank, Loan Agent, or Monetary Transfer Provider'.

The problem is it isn't worth the risk to be operating in the grey area of how it's interpreted.  Prosecutors will always have the upper hand on that one, especially when they have could throw enough prosecutors/lawyers with a combined annual salary higher than the gross income received from the pool in its lifetime.

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July 19, 2014, 10:51:15 PM
 #7454

So you are saying we should be ready for you to shut down without notice or be blocked based on the state we are in??
I understand not wanting to take the risk I am not belittling that at all.  I just want to have an idea what we need to plan for?
The proposal will not stand as is. It has already been pointed out that it violates federal privacy laws and interstate commerce laws.

There is a 45 day period before the regulations would go into effect, and that doesn't begin until after they are finalized (which is after a 45+ day comment period and then a revision period).  If they come into effect and still have wording which is absolutely applicable to pools, then the pool will begin shutting down and cease to exist at the end of that 45 day grace period.


At this point, I don't believe what exists currently will pass, but that doesn't mean what does come out won't still be applicable to pools in some way which makes it too risky to continue operating.  The reason for that post is that under those circumstances, the 3-month closure period identified in the 2nd post of this thread and in the FAQ on the website will be reduced from 90 days to 45 days in order to cease operations prior to the regulation going into effect.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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July 19, 2014, 11:52:17 PM
 #7455

I really hope it does not come to this.
I appreciate your straight dealing with us all.
So far it looks like many of the things that would mess with Bitcoin will not happen.  Fingers crossed and we need to keep the community mobilized behind getting the proposal changed.


So you are saying we should be ready for you to shut down without notice or be blocked based on the state we are in??
I understand not wanting to take the risk I am not belittling that at all.  I just want to have an idea what we need to plan for?
The proposal will not stand as is. It has already been pointed out that it violates federal privacy laws and interstate commerce laws.

There is a 45 day period before the regulations would go into effect, and that doesn't begin until after they are finalized (which is after a 45+ day comment period and then a revision period).  If they come into effect and still have wording which is absolutely applicable to pools, then the pool will begin shutting down and cease to exist at the end of that 45 day grace period.


At this point, I don't believe what exists currently will pass, but that doesn't mean what does come out won't still be applicable to pools in some way which makes it too risky to continue operating.  The reason for that post is that under those circumstances, the 3-month closure period identified in the 2nd post of this thread and in the FAQ on the website will be reduced from 90 days to 45 days in order to cease operations prior to the regulation going into effect.

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July 20, 2014, 02:35:51 AM
 #7456

Well, if this ends up coming to fruition then I guess ghash will be getting a big bump from people because that's where I'll be going as I suspect others will too when the pool closes if it ever does.

I'll go to everywhere, except GHASH.IO. There are lot of good guys still remaining. SLush, Eligius, p2pool, etc...

I'm not sure where slush is located, but Eligius I'm pretty sure is a US based pool and would be subject to the same laws as this pool. P2Pool doesn't support all hard, specifically they have problems with bitfury and S2s to my knowledge, and to my knowledge, no one is sure the S3s will work properly on it.  Also, P2Pool doesn't scale very well for small miners.  I was recently mining on there, before coming back to BTC Guild, and I would have 24 hour periods with no shares at 250Gh/s.  Then there is the variance of possible going days without payment from P2Pool.  They way I see it, and I'd REALLY hate to say it, but if the US pools that can at least minimize variance (BTC Guild and Eligius (though I don't know wizkid's stance on the NY Law)) disappear the best remaining option would maybe slush and ghash.  I really hope that NY doesn't go and screw the rest of us over by issuing a vague law that will force pools out of business, but then again, it is NY and who knows what will happen.
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July 20, 2014, 02:52:55 AM
 #7457

Well, if this ends up coming to fruition then I guess ghash will be getting a big bump from people because that's where I'll be going as I suspect others will too when the pool closes if it ever does.

I'll go to everywhere, except GHASH.IO. There are lot of good guys still remaining. SLush, Eligius, p2pool, etc...

I'm not sure where slush is located, but Eligius I'm pretty sure is a US based pool and would be subject to the same laws as this pool. P2Pool doesn't support all hard, specifically they have problems with bitfury and S2s to my knowledge, and to my knowledge, no one is sure the S3s will work properly on it.  Also, P2Pool doesn't scale very well for small miners.  I was recently mining on there, before coming back to BTC Guild, and I would have 24 hour periods with no shares at 250Gh/s.  Then there is the variance of possible going days without payment from P2Pool.  They way I see it, and I'd REALLY hate to say it, but if the US pools that can at least minimize variance (BTC Guild and Eligius (though I don't know wizkid's stance on the NY Law)) disappear the best remaining option would maybe slush and ghash.  I really hope that NY doesn't go and screw the rest of us over by issuing a vague law that will force pools out of business, but then again, it is NY and who knows what will happen.

We have a couple months before anything is really known at this point.  Logically, NY state should not be able to enforce this regulation against any company without a nexus in NY, even though the proposed regulation is trying to claim differently.  The problem is whether or not there is some federal law/agreement that would allow them to extend their authority.  The other problem is that even if they have no authority to do so, it doesn't mean they can't try.

There's also the chance that other states jump on board with the NY regulation.  If that happens, there's no guarantee how much time companies in other states will have to react before they become targets.

At least from what we've spoken about so far, wizkid057 (Eligius) appears to believe there is no legal threat to businesses not based in NY.  I'm much more conservative, and as such have been preparing for the worst.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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July 20, 2014, 03:50:18 AM
 #7458

Eleuthria thanks for being so open about how and why you will react the way you will.
Can I ask if you will join others in the community in creating a response and responsible guidelines on how to regulate it?

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July 20, 2014, 04:28:07 AM
 #7459

If the worst happens, couldn't you just shut down the US server and keep the European server running?

Run a Bitcoin node, support the network.
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July 20, 2014, 06:31:37 AM
 #7460

Section 200.15
(g)(4) Identification required for large transactions. Each Licensee must require verification of accountholders initiating transactions having a value greater than $3,000.    'page 27'
 This is Copy/Pasted from the actual NY proposal document. I think at the very least with respect to miners who carry a high account balance on the BTC Guild Pool, that this is a reasonable threshold and argument for limiting the size of balance any one miner retains in the pool account or could expect to withdraw in a single round of payouts.
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