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Author Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers  (Read 829141 times)
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psahx
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June 29, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
 #7221

Difficulty: 16,818,461,371 (+24.93% over previous).  We're now approaching the fun territory where it is possible for a shift to go unpaid if a block lasts too long (in terms of shares, not time).

Shifts are ~11b shares currently, meaning the total 'N' value is at ~110b, which is 6.875x current difficulty.  This is the largest 'N' value of any PPLNS pool currently, but since the pool is not growing as fast as the network, it is slowly losing ground compared to difficulty.  This means that if a block takes more than 7x the current diff in shares, at least one shift will go unpaid.  You'll see this on GHash (much more frequently since their 'N' value is very low), p2pool, and BitMinter as well when a particularly long block hits.  Again, 'long' in this sense is a measure of shares, not time, though the two are related.

So, .... when are you planning to grow the pool?  Grin
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MoreBloodWine
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June 29, 2014, 08:52:02 PM
 #7222

When he gets rich or cashes out on his coin stash lol

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June 29, 2014, 08:57:41 PM
 #7223

Difficulty: 16,818,461,371 (+24.93% over previous).  We're now approaching the fun territory where it is possible for a shift to go unpaid if a block lasts too long (in terms of shares, not time).

Shifts are ~11b shares currently, meaning the total 'N' value is at ~110b, which is 6.875x current difficulty.  This is the largest 'N' value of any PPLNS pool currently, but since the pool is not growing as fast as the network, it is slowly losing ground compared to difficulty.  This means that if a block takes more than 7x the current diff in shares, at least one shift will go unpaid.  You'll see this on GHash (much more frequently since their 'N' value is very low), p2pool, and BitMinter as well when a particularly long block hits.  Again, 'long' in this sense is a measure of shares, not time, though the two are related.

So, .... when are you planning to grow the pool?  Grin

All public pools are continuing to shrink in their share of the network as manufacturers of ASICs build up private farms for a fraction of the cost of individuals.  Most ASICs these days are not going to turn a profit for an end user, but the manufacturer's cost per hash is significantly lower.  In the last 2016 blocks, BTC Guild, Eligius, BitMinter, p2pool, and Slush combined aren't even 20% of the network anymore, and that has been a continuing trend for most of 2014.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
MoreBloodWine
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June 29, 2014, 09:07:49 PM
 #7224

Difficulty: 16,818,461,371 (+24.93% over previous).  We're now approaching the fun territory where it is possible for a shift to go unpaid if a block lasts too long (in terms of shares, not time).

Shifts are ~11b shares currently, meaning the total 'N' value is at ~110b, which is 6.875x current difficulty.  This is the largest 'N' value of any PPLNS pool currently, but since the pool is not growing as fast as the network, it is slowly losing ground compared to difficulty.  This means that if a block takes more than 7x the current diff in shares, at least one shift will go unpaid.  You'll see this on GHash (much more frequently since their 'N' value is very low), p2pool, and BitMinter as well when a particularly long block hits.  Again, 'long' in this sense is a measure of shares, not time, though the two are related.

So, .... when are you planning to grow the pool?  Grin

All public pools are continuing to shrink in their share of the network as manufacturers of ASICs build up private farms for a fraction of the cost of individuals.  Most ASICs these days are not going to turn a profit for an end user, but the manufacturer's cost per hash is significantly lower.  In the last 2016 blocks, BTC Guild, Eligius, BitMinter, p2pool, and Slush combined aren't even 20% of the network anymore, and that has been a continuing trend for most of 2014.
So basically by say, Feb if not sooner, pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

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June 29, 2014, 09:19:46 PM
 #7225

All public pools are continuing to shrink in their share of the network as manufacturers of ASICs build up private farms for a fraction of the cost of individuals.  Most ASICs these days are not going to turn a profit for an end user, but the manufacturer's cost per hash is significantly lower.  In the last 2016 blocks, BTC Guild, Eligius, BitMinter, p2pool, and Slush combined aren't even 20% of the network anymore, and that has been a continuing trend for most of 2014.

So sad, but true Sad What are the plans? What would you suggest to an end user? I do not want to hash for GHASH. Maybe you guys (BTC Guild, Eligius, BitMinter and Slush) will cooperate and redirect all your hash power to p2pool?

Sorry, if I sound too stupid, just want to know, what will happen to us Smiley
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June 29, 2014, 09:25:14 PM
 #7226

pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

I don't follow your logic?!?

Pools will be obsolete because of private farms which will destroy Bitcoin??

That's kind of like the movie "Soylent Green" where global warming caused all food sources to be destroyed which in turn caused a population boom and over populated the Earth.

Obviously I'm missing something, please explain it too me. Smiley

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
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June 29, 2014, 10:07:55 PM
 #7227

So basically by say, Feb if not sooner, pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

Pools will not become obsolete as there are some many small miners who have a few miners running in their basements and they want to make a few bitcoins. These small miners cannot solo mine and depend on mining pools for their income. However I expect that the trend for 2014/2015 is that small miners will stop mining as the cost of energy will rise and only large (private) farms will be able to make a little profit. The increase in power consumption moves the miners from basements to professional datacenters and increase the complexity of mining bitcoins, thus resulting in less smaller miners.

I still have hope that the small miners remain and bitcoin become available for everyone to mine!

~ Luc
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June 29, 2014, 10:13:45 PM
 #7228

So basically by say, Feb if not sooner, pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

Pools will not become obsolete as there are some many small miners who have a few miners running in their basements and they want to make a few bitcoins. These small miners cannot solo mine and depend on mining pools for their income. However I expect that the trend for 2014/2015 is that small miners will stop mining as the cost of energy will rise and only large (private) farms will be able to make a little profit. The increase in power consumption moves the miners from basements to professional datacenters and increase the complexity of mining bitcoins, thus resulting in less smaller miners.

I still have hope that the small miners remain and bitcoin become available for everyone to mine!

~ Luc
This is what I'm saying, if large farms are the only ones able to eventually turn a profit then small miners connected to pools eventually lose. Shutting their stuff off, draining pool power to the point that most pools eventually close their doors. That said, with large farms being the only ones to eventually turn a profit, it wont exactly be good for the network / your average user such as us.

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June 29, 2014, 10:51:17 PM
 #7229

pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

I don't follow your logic?!?

Pools will be obsolete because of private farms which will destroy Bitcoin??

That's kind of like the movie "Soylent Green" where global warming caused all food sources to be destroyed which in turn caused a population boom and over populated the Earth.

Obviously I'm missing something, please explain it too me. Smiley

It's a bit of a stretch.  Mining centralization has been here since 2011 in the form of pools.  It made miners feel a little better because they knew that if a pool did something, they could just leave, and in aggregate that would be enough.  GHash.io is the next step in that, where you have a "pool" that is attached to a giant private farm.  BTC Guild sort of had this in early 2013, since ASICMINER used BTC Guild exclusively for most of its early launch, and most Avalons also pointed to BTC Guild, but these were separate entities and not within my control.

There's not a huge difference in effect between having 4-6 major pools and having 4-6 private mining corporations, except for the way miners feel about the two.  In one, miners have some control, though how much is up for debate.  In the other, it is entirely out of their control.  I've been in this game for almost 4 years now, and from early on I've known this was going to happen, although I didn't expect to see it in 2014/2015.  Most of us didn't even expect to see ASICs for over a decade, but we underestimated the gullibility of people to pre-order hardware that didn't exist yet in order to fund the development of said hardware.  Then again, even without pre-order madness we would have had ASICs, since ASICMINER did the correct approach by raising investment capital honestly and openly, and they were the first ones to have wide deployment.

These days, I'm not so sure if the mining scene is even a factor in Bitcoin adoption/price/viability.  The technology itself works great even with fewer entities involved in the mining process.  The only concern comes from consolidation/cooperation of those entities to enforce new soft rules on the network.  While mining can never execute a hard fork without the market following it, they can enforce a soft fork which lies within the rules defined in the protocol.  Things like enforcing higher fees by not including transactions, or even forcing higher fees by orphaning blocks that include transactions without fees.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
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June 30, 2014, 12:22:38 AM
 #7230

Ouch, lil over 1Ph loss over 2 days.

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June 30, 2014, 12:27:50 AM
 #7231

Ouch, lil over 1Ph loss over 2 days.

More like over the last 11 days : https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=pool_stats

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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June 30, 2014, 12:38:59 AM
 #7232

Ouch, lil over 1Ph loss over 2 days.

More like over the last 11 days : https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=pool_stats
Ahh lol, my bad then but still... ouch.

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June 30, 2014, 01:00:54 AM
 #7233

Actually, home miners with low electric cost will outlast the large mining farms as long as we have access to the same tech.

It was stated in another thread that someone with a data center mining farm was paying 10c/kwh. Home miners can run without any overhead. No extra fans or a/c cooling needed. I only pay 8c/kwh on average and down to 4-6c/kwh during the winter months. That rivals some data center cost and I know I'm not the only one with these rates. Currently, a home user could easily run 1-5th and break even much faster than a small to large mining farm.
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June 30, 2014, 02:40:38 AM
 #7234

Actually, home miners with low electric cost will outlast the large mining farms as long as we have access to the same tech.

It was stated in another thread that someone with a data center mining farm was paying 10c/kwh. Home miners can run without any overhead. No extra fans or a/c cooling needed. I only pay 8c/kwh on average and down to 4-6c/kwh during the winter months. That rivals some data center cost and I know I'm not the only one with these rates. Currently, a home user could easily run 1-5th and break even much faster than a small to large mining farm.

Good luck making more than what you paid for them.  The sunk cost for you is at minimum 3-4 times what they pay for the same hash rate.  That's the difference, you can never obtain hash rate at even close to the cost the manufacturers can.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
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June 30, 2014, 05:02:05 AM
 #7235

Actually, home miners with low electric cost will outlast the large mining farms as long as we have access to the same tech.

It was stated in another thread that someone with a data center mining farm was paying 10c/kwh. Home miners can run without any overhead. No extra fans or a/c cooling needed. I only pay 8c/kwh on average and down to 4-6c/kwh during the winter months. That rivals some data center cost and I know I'm not the only one with these rates. Currently, a home user could easily run 1-5th and break even much faster than a small to large mining farm.

Good luck making more than what you paid for them.  The sunk cost for you is at minimum 3-4 times what they pay for the same hash rate.  That's the difference, you can never obtain hash rate at even close to the cost the manufacturers can.

This could not be more true.  Yes you might be able to mine with cheap electric if it is available, but they are still the ones who manufacture the miners.  This means that they don't have the extra cost to you that they build in for their profit.  It also means that they start making BTC while they are test your rig, then they mail it to you.  Then they keep the next rig off the line and set it up for themselves and start mining a week to week and a half before you get your machine.  They they sell your neighbor a machine, at the same price they sold you yours, and charge him a ridiculous hosting fee.  Definitely a win, win, win situation for any manufacturer of mining hardware, with no way a private person can compete against when it comes to a profit model.
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June 30, 2014, 05:57:07 AM
 #7236

I'm about to join the BTCGuild 10 Billion club! 10 billion shares submitted and now in the top 200 for Most Shares (all time).

Do I get a trophy?  Cheesy
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June 30, 2014, 05:59:44 AM
 #7237

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

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June 30, 2014, 06:02:45 AM
 #7238

I'm about to join the BTCGuild 10 Billion club! 10 billion shares submitted and now in the top 200 for Most Shares (all time).

Do I get a trophy?  Cheesy

Hmm...I can only provide the following trophy:


R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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June 30, 2014, 06:04:30 AM
 #7239

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

Do you mind me asking who you refer, when you say WE. It is more than obvious, that you mine at ghash (I've figured it out from your sig). So, why do you care at all?
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June 30, 2014, 06:07:52 AM
 #7240

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

Well hopefully some of those S3s, Neptunes and AM3 chips come this way.  There was a reason those original ASICs chose to mine here.  I don't think any other pool has had better uptime or as close supervision.

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