ANN-EMC2 Einsteinium FUNDING THE FUTURE WITH THE FUTURE OF CURRENCY KMD-dPoW

[learminer]

That's exactly the situation I did point out before: if you weigh all PoW algos combined they're ahead of PoS. I guess doing a "PoW vs. PoS vs. PoW/PoS combined" poll would make sense. If PoW still comes out ahead just make a seperate poll for algos.

Would be kinda awesome if the result of those two polls would lead to 1. stay with PoW and 2. stay with Scrypt - eh? No hard fork required!

[ahumanbeingx]

That's exactly the situation I did point out before: if you weigh all PoW algos combined they're ahead of PoS. I guess doing a "PoW vs. PoS vs. PoW/PoS combined" poll would make sense. If PoW still comes out ahead just make a seperate poll for algos.

Would be kinda awesome if the result of those two polls would lead to 1. stay with PoW and 2. stay with Scrypt - eh? No hard fork required!

I want to do what's best for the community and what our supporters, investors, and miners generally agree upon. For that reason, there will be another poll to solidify the change (or lack thereof).

[afeizhai]

The 1%~5% annual dividend of more appropriate

[matauc12]

ANNOUNCEMENT

I've created a new thread for voting on our new algorithm implementation. Please take into consideration all possibilities and cast your vote accordingly. The poll will last 5 days and I will announce the winner on both threads this coming weekend.

HERE IS THE POLL:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654552.new#new

Please feel free to quote this post and keep discussion alive so that we can make the most balanced decision for everyone. I know that there is no way to make everyone happy, but an open and democratic vote lasting 5 days should help alleviate concerns. Please let me know if you there any other mining options you would like me to add to the poll.

Thanks everyone!

Bumping the poll to make sure everyone gets their vote in! PoS has the clear lead here on Bitcontalk while 'Scrypt (No change)' is the clear winner on the Facebook poll. You can also cast your vote on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/einsteinium/comments/28bcu4/poll_vote_for_einsteinium_coins_new_algorithm/

Bumping the poll again, there's only a few days left before the decision is made. Our facebook poll is overwhelmingly leaning toward "No Change" while Bitcoin talk is leaning heavily for PoS. Which algo wins? YOU decide!

We Have a Winner!

It looks like EMC2 is headed for PoS people!

Even without weighting the votes from BTCTalk, PoS has won the majority user votes when calculating all voting channels. Taking BTCTalk as the primary voting channel (also promoted on twitter), it is clear what direction you guys want to EMC2 take!

BTCTalk: PoS (20), Scrypt (9)
Facebook: Scrypt (13), PoS (2)
Reddit: PoS (3), Scrypt (0)

Totals: PoS (25), Scrypt (22)

Thanks to everyone for voting! Now it's time we discuss implementation of the new PoS system. I'd like to hear member opinions here so that we can try to do what's best for Einsteinium. What do you think?

On BTCTalk only, x11 (3) , x13 (4), scrypt-N (4), Groestl (2), Qubit (2) so this is 15 people voting for a PoW algo add scrypt (9) = 24 vote to keep a PoW algo versus 20 to switch for a PoS algo.

I think that is trying to find a flaw where there isnt really. It is pretty clear that the mativation for voting was change or no change above anything else.

[RJF]

Out of fairness I'm willing to host another poll here on BTCTalk for PoW and PoS only. That should clear the air a bit and allow is to move forward with a clear winner. How does that sound?

Sounds like a fair option and, good way out of the current uncertainty...

Supporter - Investor - Miner

[matauc12]

Honestly, you did a poll and should stick to it. Cant make polls until it suits some people best and then the next ones.

POS won in a pretty clear fashion. No other PoW algo really did any competition other than the one that conveyed "no change" more than the algo. The poll was pretty much (despite the intentions) a poll of change vs no change. Change clearly won, and within the change category theres a pretty clear winner.

[djnocide]

ANNOUNCEMENT

I've created a new thread for voting on our new algorithm implementation. Please take into consideration all possibilities and cast your vote accordingly. The poll will last 5 days and I will announce the winner on both threads this coming weekend.

HERE IS THE POLL:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654552.new#new

Please feel free to quote this post and keep discussion alive so that we can make the most balanced decision for everyone. I know that there is no way to make everyone happy, but an open and democratic vote lasting 5 days should help alleviate concerns. Please let me know if you there any other mining options you would like me to add to the poll.

Thanks everyone!

Bumping the poll to make sure everyone gets their vote in! PoS has the clear lead here on Bitcontalk while 'Scrypt (No change)' is the clear winner on the Facebook poll. You can also cast your vote on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/einsteinium/comments/28bcu4/poll_vote_for_einsteinium_coins_new_algorithm/

Bumping the poll again, there's only a few days left before the decision is made. Our facebook poll is overwhelmingly leaning toward "No Change" while Bitcoin talk is leaning heavily for PoS. Which algo wins? YOU decide!

We Have a Winner!

It looks like EMC2 is headed for PoS people!

Even without weighting the votes from BTCTalk, PoS has won the majority user votes when calculating all voting channels. Taking BTCTalk as the primary voting channel (also promoted on twitter), it is clear what direction you guys want to EMC2 take!

BTCTalk: PoS (20), Scrypt (9)
Facebook: Scrypt (13), PoS (2)
Reddit: PoS (3), Scrypt (0)

Totals: PoS (25), Scrypt (22)

Thanks to everyone for voting! Now it's time we discuss implementation of the new PoS system. I'd like to hear member opinions here so that we can try to do what's best for Einsteinium. What do you think?

On BTCTalk only, x11 (3) , x13 (4), scrypt-N (4), Groestl (2), Qubit (2) so this is 15 people voting for a PoW algo add scrypt (9) = 24 vote to keep a PoW algo versus 20 to switch for a PoS algo.

I think that is trying to find a flaw where there isnt really. It is pretty clear that the mativation for voting was change or no change above anything else.

I'm not trying to find a flaw, i'm only pointing out that the result aren't enough conclusive to change anything right now. If PoS had 30 votes and all the other PoW algo together 29 votes. It would be clear that we had to switch to PoS but since it's not the case we can,t decide to switch to PoS when the community voted for more PoW algos than PoS alone.

[matauc12]

ANNOUNCEMENT

I've created a new thread for voting on our new algorithm implementation. Please take into consideration all possibilities and cast your vote accordingly. The poll will last 5 days and I will announce the winner on both threads this coming weekend.

HERE IS THE POLL:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654552.new#new

Please feel free to quote this post and keep discussion alive so that we can make the most balanced decision for everyone. I know that there is no way to make everyone happy, but an open and democratic vote lasting 5 days should help alleviate concerns. Please let me know if you there any other mining options you would like me to add to the poll.

Thanks everyone!

Bumping the poll to make sure everyone gets their vote in! PoS has the clear lead here on Bitcontalk while 'Scrypt (No change)' is the clear winner on the Facebook poll. You can also cast your vote on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/einsteinium/comments/28bcu4/poll_vote_for_einsteinium_coins_new_algorithm/

Bumping the poll again, there's only a few days left before the decision is made. Our facebook poll is overwhelmingly leaning toward "No Change" while Bitcoin talk is leaning heavily for PoS. Which algo wins? YOU decide!

We Have a Winner!

It looks like EMC2 is headed for PoS people!

Even without weighting the votes from BTCTalk, PoS has won the majority user votes when calculating all voting channels. Taking BTCTalk as the primary voting channel (also promoted on twitter), it is clear what direction you guys want to EMC2 take!

BTCTalk: PoS (20), Scrypt (9)
Facebook: Scrypt (13), PoS (2)
Reddit: PoS (3), Scrypt (0)

Totals: PoS (25), Scrypt (22)

Thanks to everyone for voting! Now it's time we discuss implementation of the new PoS system. I'd like to hear member opinions here so that we can try to do what's best for Einsteinium. What do you think?

On BTCTalk only, x11 (3) , x13 (4), scrypt-N (4), Groestl (2), Qubit (2) so this is 15 people voting for a PoW algo add scrypt (9) = 24 vote to keep a PoW algo versus 20 to switch for a PoS algo.

I think that is trying to find a flaw where there isnt really. It is pretty clear that the mativation for voting was change or no change above anything else.

I'm not trying to find a flaw, i'm only pointing out that the result aren't enough conclusive to change anything right now. If PoS had 30 votes and all the other PoW algo together 29 votes. It would be clear that we had to switch to PoS but since it's not the case we can,t decide to switch to PoS when the community voted for more PoW algos than PoS alone.

Ok, lets we do a PoW vs POS poll. Lets say PoW wins, and now you need to make a poll for which PoW (which were all options in the first poll). You now have a similar poll with the cleae winner of the poll where ALL were an option, is now left out.

Doesnt make it much more logical to me.

Stick to what you did, making a poll and comming back on the interpretation doesnt give much confidence.

[djnocide]

ANNOUNCEMENT

I've created a new thread for voting on our new algorithm implementation. Please take into consideration all possibilities and cast your vote accordingly. The poll will last 5 days and I will announce the winner on both threads this coming weekend.

HERE IS THE POLL:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654552.new#new

Please feel free to quote this post and keep discussion alive so that we can make the most balanced decision for everyone. I know that there is no way to make everyone happy, but an open and democratic vote lasting 5 days should help alleviate concerns. Please let me know if you there any other mining options you would like me to add to the poll.

Thanks everyone!

Bumping the poll to make sure everyone gets their vote in! PoS has the clear lead here on Bitcontalk while 'Scrypt (No change)' is the clear winner on the Facebook poll. You can also cast your vote on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/einsteinium/comments/28bcu4/poll_vote_for_einsteinium_coins_new_algorithm/

Bumping the poll again, there's only a few days left before the decision is made. Our facebook poll is overwhelmingly leaning toward "No Change" while Bitcoin talk is leaning heavily for PoS. Which algo wins? YOU decide!

We Have a Winner!

It looks like EMC2 is headed for PoS people!

Even without weighting the votes from BTCTalk, PoS has won the majority user votes when calculating all voting channels. Taking BTCTalk as the primary voting channel (also promoted on twitter), it is clear what direction you guys want to EMC2 take!

BTCTalk: PoS (20), Scrypt (9)
Facebook: Scrypt (13), PoS (2)
Reddit: PoS (3), Scrypt (0)

Totals: PoS (25), Scrypt (22)

Thanks to everyone for voting! Now it's time we discuss implementation of the new PoS system. I'd like to hear member opinions here so that we can try to do what's best for Einsteinium. What do you think?

On BTCTalk only, x11 (3) , x13 (4), scrypt-N (4), Groestl (2), Qubit (2) so this is 15 people voting for a PoW algo add scrypt (9) = 24 vote to keep a PoW algo versus 20 to switch for a PoS algo.

I think that is trying to find a flaw where there isnt really. It is pretty clear that the mativation for voting was change or no change above anything else.

I'm not trying to find a flaw, i'm only pointing out that the result aren't enough conclusive to change anything right now. If PoS had 30 votes and all the other PoW algo together 29 votes. It would be clear that we had to switch to PoS but since it's not the case we can,t decide to switch to PoS when the community voted for more PoW algos than PoS alone.

Ok, lets we do a PoW vs POS poll. Lets say PoW wins, and now you need to make a poll for which PoW (which were all options in the first poll). You now have a similar poll with the cleae winner of the poll where ALL were an option, is now left out.

Doesnt make it much more logical to me.

Stick to what you did, making a poll and comming back on the interpretation doesnt give much confidence.

The poll is not clear enough to say if the community still want a PoW algo or PoS, we can't switch each month because there's a new hype. If we do a switch right now it have to be clear what the community want. We have to show stability and fairness towards the community if we want this coin to get bigger. ahumanbeingx did a great job by setting up a poll but the majority need to win in a fair way.
The decision have to be interesting for future investors and right now i don't think it is that way.

[matauc12]

Actually I think its pretty easy to deduct from the poll that the majority wants a change. And which change is fairly clear too. Not sure why you really wanna bring in 2 additional polls.

Btw, as a disclosure, I voted X11. It didnt go my way, but I still see a clear winner here.

[learminer]

That's exactly the situation I did point out before: if you weigh all PoW algos combined they're ahead of PoS. I guess doing a "PoW vs. PoS vs. PoW/PoS combined" poll would make sense. If PoW still comes out ahead just make a seperate poll for algos.

Would be kinda awesome if the result of those two polls would lead to 1. stay with PoW and 2. stay with Scrypt - eh? No hard fork required!

I want to do what's best for the community and what our supporters, investors, and miners generally agree upon. For that reason, there will be another poll to solidify the change (or lack thereof).

You sir seem to be a fine dev. Makes me confident about my decision to become a holder of this coin again.

[wizely]

Why is einsteinium.org website currently down?

"Error establishing a database connection"

[Lovethecoins]

That's exactly the situation I did point out before: if you weigh all PoW algos combined they're ahead of PoS. I guess doing a "PoW vs. PoS vs. PoW/PoS combined" poll would make sense. If PoW still comes out ahead just make a seperate poll for algos.

Would be kinda awesome if the result of those two polls would lead to 1. stay with PoW and 2. stay with Scrypt - eh? No hard fork required!

I want to do what's best for the community and what our supporters, investors, and miners generally agree upon. For that reason, there will be another poll to solidify the change (or lack thereof).

You sir seem to be a fine dev. Makes me confident about my decision to become a holder of this coin again.

Actually I think its pretty easy to deduct from the poll that the majority wants a change. And which change is fairly clear too. Not sure why you really wanna bring in 2 additional polls.

Btw, as a disclosure, I voted X11. It didnt go my way, but I still see a clear winner here.

I think these prices will soon be a distinct memory.. but beyond just the price... POS is a great choice IMO.... Now it is everyones job to get out there and tell people!!! Emc2 for everyone!!! Family Friends Neighbours Schools scientists!!! Try try try !!!

[ahumanbeingx]

Why is einsteinium.org website currently down?

"Error establishing a database connection"

I've messaged Eddie and Lucas regarding this issue, it has been fixed. Thanks for notifying me.

[steady712]

Why is einsteinium.org website currently down?

"Error establishing a database connection"

I've messaged Eddie and Lucas regarding this issue, it has been fixed. Thanks for notifying me.

You are part of the dcm team, why you dont do nothing? i hope you can be more presence on our topic too.

[bobq]

Beware: we have tens of votes on the polls, but how many people are helding EMC2 actually? The majority of EMC2 holders may be unaware of our discussions here, not everybody spends their time on forums. To change the fundamentals of a coin is something to do with enormous care - it's a violation of the whole concept behind a cryptocurrency: no serious investor would easily put money in a coin which menaces to change it's way to be generated every time that it's value does not rise.
This being said, if the community nevertheless decides for a change, a mixed PoW/PoW would probably be the best way to go, because it would strenghten the network against possible attacks and in my view our community is still far too little for a successful PoS coin. I'm repeating my question: once we are pure PoS why would someone OUTSIDE our community sudenly wish to buy our coins? If you can explain it to yourself please explain it also to me, I still don't get it. But beware that if your argument then doesn't work that's the case of the value of the coin finally dropping to zero. I understand that the few tens of people who have voted the poll own all together most of the coins in circulation and they dream of becoming rich very fast - I share your same dream, but I am also a realist. Who would buy our coins once we are the only ones to produce them by the way of PoS? Come on, this is a quite childish expectation.

I'm repeating it once again: we are here to give life to a coin which has the embedded property of funding science, no matter which its market price is. If we will be able to achieve that, we will also end up being happy with the coins price. There are no other ways. To this regard, I must say I am not happy with the funding of science having been halted for a few epochs because the price is low, as well as I am not happy with the payments to the awarded scientific projects being delivered in dollars, as it happened in the past. We should ALWAYS send the EMC2 coins to the winners, no matter which their value is. We can explain to the winners how to transform their coins in dollars, if that is what they prefer, but we should exclusively deliver EMC2s. The coins are worth little? Then winners are unlucky, we'll suggest them to keep the coins until they will be worth more. If we deliver dollars instead of EMC2 we betray our own coin, we send out a strong message that EMC2's value is only in terms of dollars, it looks like we don't believe in our own coin, we show that we didn't really get the new paradigm behind cryptocurrencies, we basically just do it wrong. The proof of the validity of I say? If you think in terms of dollars, when the market price drops you'll end up stopping with the process of awarding coins to science, thus destroying the credibility of the whole project. The coin is less than 4 months old, so these mistakes can be still recovered, but if the community does not understand these basic things we'll more likely to go down, rather than up again.

Regarding the change, perhaps we could think at something which has not been done yet (as far as I know, but of course I may be wrong, there are so many coins out there), a mixed PoW/PoS system with the embedded feature of a slow transition to PoS, perhaps over a couple of years.
I agree that IN THE END PoS sounds a way to go for cryptocurrencies in general, because it's echological, doesn't feed an unsustainable "arm race" of ASICS, etc, but you really have to have a big and strong community to be successful in that. Mintcoin had a community much bigger than ours, was quite well branded, but nevertheless since it's PoS the coin's price is slowly fading away.
A mixed PoW/PoS system which slowly goes in the direction of PoS could be an interesting solution. At the beginning it would be mainly PoW, like now, with just a minimal component of PoS. The ratio between PoW and PoS could change with every Epoch. A bit of PoW could be kept even for a some decades, this way there would always be the possibility for mining entusiasts to get some coins this way. Perhaps someone could start doing a bit of math on this.

[learminer]

Beware: we have tens of votes on the polls, but how many people are helding EMC2 actually? The majority of EMC2 holders may be unaware of our discussions here, not everybody spends their time on forums. To change the fundamentals of a coin is something to do with enormous care - it's a violation of the whole concept behind a cryptocurrency: no serious investor would easily put money in a coin which menaces to change it's way to be generated every time that it's value does not rise.
This being said, if the community nevertheless decides for a change, a mixed PoW/PoW would probably be the best way to go, because it would strenghten the network against possible attacks and in my view our community is still far too little for a successful PoS coin. I'm repeating my question: once we are pure PoS why would someone OUTSIDE our community sudenly wish to buy our coins? If you can explain it to yourself please explain it also to me, I still don't get it. But beware that if your argument then doesn't work that's the case of the value of the coin finally dropping to zero. I understand that the few tens of people who have voted the poll own all together most of the coins in circulation and they dream of becoming rich very fast - I share your same dream, but I am also a realist. Who would buy our coins once we are the only ones to produce them by the way of PoS? Come on, this is a quite childish expectation.

I'm repeating it once again: we are here to give life to a coin which has the embedded property of funding science, no matter which its market price is. If we will be able to achieve that, we will also end up being happy with the coins price. There are no other ways. To this regard, I must say I am not happy with the funding of science having been halted for a few epochs because the price is low, as well as I am not happy with the payments to the awarded scientific projects being delivered in dollars, as it happened in the past. We should ALWAYS send the EMC2 coins to the winners, no matter which their value is. We can explain to the winners how to transform their coins in dollars, if that is what they prefer, but we should exclusively deliver EMC2s. The coins are worth little? Then winners are unlucky, we'll suggest them to keep the coins until they will be worth more. If we deliver dollars instead of EMC2 we betray our own coin, we send out a strong message that EMC2's value is only in terms of dollars, it looks like we don't believe in our own coin, we show that we didn't really get the new paradigm behind cryptocurrencies, we basically just do it wrong. The proof of the validity of I say? If you think in terms of dollars, when the market price drops you'll end up stopping with the process of awarding coins to science, thus destroying the credibility of the whole project. The coin is less than 4 months old, so these mistakes can be still recovered, but if the community does not understand these basic things we'll more likely to go down, rather than up again.

Regarding the change, perhaps we could think at something which has not been done yet (as far as I know, but of course I may be wrong, there are so many coins out there), a mixed PoW/PoS system with the embedded feature of a slow transition to PoS, perhaps over a couple of years.
I agree that IN THE END PoS sounds a way to go for cryptocurrencies in general, because it's echological, doesn't feed an unsustainable "arm race" of ASICS, etc, but you really have to have a big and strong community to be successful in that. Mintcoin had a community much bigger than ours, was quite well branded, but nevertheless since it's PoS the coin's price is slowly fading away.
A mixed PoW/PoS system which slowly goes in the direction of PoS could be an interesting solution. At the beginning it would be mainly PoW, like now, with just a minimal component of PoS. The ratio between PoW and PoS could change with every Epoch. A bit of PoW could be kept even for a some decades, this way there would always be the possibility for mining entusiasts to get some coins this way. Perhaps someone could start doing a bit of math on this.

Very good arguments. +1

[afeizhai]

Now that you have decided to use the ballot to decide the future of the coin, then I will respect the outcome of the referendum, what is there in this discussion?

[ahumanbeingx]

Beware: we have tens of votes on the polls, but how many people are helding EMC2 actually? The majority of EMC2 holders may be unaware of our discussions here, not everybody spends their time on forums. To change the fundamentals of a coin is something to do with enormous care - it's a violation of the whole concept behind a cryptocurrency: no serious investor would easily put money in a coin which menaces to change it's way to be generated every time that it's value does not rise.
This being said, if the community nevertheless decides for a change, a mixed PoW/PoW would probably be the best way to go, because it would strenghten the network against possible attacks and in my view our community is still far too little for a successful PoS coin. I'm repeating my question: once we are pure PoS why would someone OUTSIDE our community sudenly wish to buy our coins? If you can explain it to yourself please explain it also to me, I still don't get it. But beware that if your argument then doesn't work that's the case of the value of the coin finally dropping to zero. I understand that the few tens of people who have voted the poll own all together most of the coins in circulation and they dream of becoming rich very fast - I share your same dream, but I am also a realist. Who would buy our coins once we are the only ones to produce them by the way of PoS? Come on, this is a quite childish expectation.

I'm repeating it once again: we are here to give life to a coin which has the embedded property of funding science, no matter which its market price is. If we will be able to achieve that, we will also end up being happy with the coins price. There are no other ways. To this regard, I must say I am not happy with the funding of science having been halted for a few epochs because the price is low, as well as I am not happy with the payments to the awarded scientific projects being delivered in dollars, as it happened in the past. We should ALWAYS send the EMC2 coins to the winners, no matter which their value is. We can explain to the winners how to transform their coins in dollars, if that is what they prefer, but we should exclusively deliver EMC2s. The coins are worth little? Then winners are unlucky, we'll suggest them to keep the coins until they will be worth more. If we deliver dollars instead of EMC2 we betray our own coin, we send out a strong message that EMC2's value is only in terms of dollars, it looks like we don't believe in our own coin, we show that we didn't really get the new paradigm behind cryptocurrencies, we basically just do it wrong. The proof of the validity of I say? If you think in terms of dollars, when the market price drops you'll end up stopping with the process of awarding coins to science, thus destroying the credibility of the whole project. The coin is less than 4 months old, so these mistakes can be still recovered, but if the community does not understand these basic things we'll more likely to go down, rather than up again.

Regarding the change, perhaps we could think at something which has not been done yet (as far as I know, but of course I may be wrong, there are so many coins out there), a mixed PoW/PoS system with the embedded feature of a slow transition to PoS, perhaps over a couple of years.
I agree that IN THE END PoS sounds a way to go for cryptocurrencies in general, because it's echological, doesn't feed an unsustainable "arm race" of ASICS, etc, but you really have to have a big and strong community to be successful in that. Mintcoin had a community much bigger than ours, was quite well branded, but nevertheless since it's PoS the coin's price is slowly fading away.
A mixed PoW/PoS system which slowly goes in the direction of PoS could be an interesting solution. At the beginning it would be mainly PoW, like now, with just a minimal component of PoS. The ratio between PoW and PoS could change with every Epoch. A bit of PoW could be kept even for a some decades, this way there would always be the possibility for mining entusiasts to get some coins this way. Perhaps someone could start doing a bit of math on this.

First of all, I appreciate the time you've spent creating such a passionate and poignant post about the voting issue. I am also somewhat disappointed with the lack of vote count. To answer your question "Why would someone outside of our community want to buy our coin?" - The answer would be, because we are going to introduce a new system for donating to science that will increase the value of coins you hold. To invest in the future of science as well as your own financial future. That new system is much more necessary than a change of algorithm but it will take longer to flesh-out and implement. That being said, it is a priority of mine to introduce the new system as soon as possible. I've been brainstorming a lot but I would also like to hear yours and everyone else's input as well.

I'll be running a new poll for PoS, PoW, or PoW / PoS soon. If there are any other new innovative ideas to be put on the table please let me know ASAP.

Thanks again for your input.

[ahumanbeingx]

Why is einsteinium.org website currently down?"Error establishing a database connection"

We are running into some RAM issues on our server. This will be fixed and back online ASAP. Sorry for the downtime.