[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[jimmothy]

It's 100% backed by real hardware.

Although your word is nice, a publicly disclosed mining address would be better.

[Guy Corem]

It's 100% backed by real hardware.

Although your word is nice, a publicly disclosed mining address would be better.

Why do you assume it's one mining address?
I've seen different implementation in the industry.

[jimmothy]

It's 100% backed by real hardware.

Although your word is nice, a publicly disclosed mining address would be better.

Why do you assume it's one mining address?
I've seen different implementation in the industry.

Does it really matter?

If they have X PH/s, why can't they point X PH/s to an address (or addresses) to prove they aren't running a fractional reserve?

[Guy Corem]

It's 100% backed by real hardware.

Although your word is nice, a publicly disclosed mining address would be better.

Why do you assume it's one mining address?
I've seen different implementation in the industry.

Does it really matter?

If they have X PH/s, why can't they point X PH/s to an address (or addresses) to prove they aren't running a fractional reserve?

Sure, they can do that but then they won't fulfill their contracts...
We're working on different mechanism to show cryptographic proof of hash rate without service interruption in our next gen. More details soon.

[lulu2003]

technical one:

The simplest way to underclock it is by setting limit to ASIC voltage. Don't touch the PSU watt limitation.

why? hard facts not to throttle a certain loop by psu limit in settings?

[philipma1957]

  A very simple question about genesis .  what is the maintenance fee?
I went to the site and it said look at the contract.
 That is a problem since I can't find a contract.
 As it appears I must sign  up to see a contract.


 The price is 469 for  1 th  now if maintenance fee is  0 a month for 1 th   growth is 0 plus freeze btc at 225  I break even in  182 days
 
------------------------------------------------------------- 20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------237 days

_________________________________________40____________________________________ ___________________342 days
____

So I won't argue about diff change or network growth  I won't argue price of coin.   I used 0% growth and froze coin at 225


but they need to show  m-fee clear  and they need to do it now.  They need to show contracts without a signup.

  It is 4:45 am I may have missed the fees , but I would like to see the fees.

[Biffa]

 A very simple question about genesis .  what is the maintenance fee?
I went to the site and it said look at the contract.
 That is a problem since I can't find a contract.
 As it appears I must sign  up to see a contract.


 The price is 469 for  1 th  now if maintenance fee is  0 a month for 1 th   growth is 0 plus freeze btc at 225  I break even in  182 days
 
------------------------------------------------------------- 20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------237 days

_________________________________________40____________________________________ ___________________342 days
____

So I won't argue about diff change or network growth  I won't argue price of coin.   I used 0% growth and froze coin at 225


but they need to show  m-fee clear  and they need to do it now.  They need to show contracts without a signup.

  It is 4:45 am I may have missed the fees , but I would like to see the fees.

Once you start the buy process you have to agree the contract which stipulates:

2. Remuneration
As a consideration for the Services the Customer agrees to pay to the Service Provider an amount of (the "Fee"):  
a. 0.446 USD per GH/s upfront
b. USD 0.0015 per GH/s and day, deducted on a daily basis* from the generated Coins

Full contract link here: https://www.genesis-mining.com/upgrade-hashpower/universal/summary#contract-sha256

For me, one of the major things (apart from the fees) is the pool, unless I can choose the pool, or at the very least Genesis discloses the pool(s) they are currently mining on its a no deal.

[Biffa]

Seems the link is hard coded. So for those who don't want to sign up before seeing the contract, here is the current (as of today) version:

Mining Capacity Share Agreement
sha256

MINING CAPACITY SHARE AGREEMENT

I (the "Customer") agree with the following terms and conditions for the provision of mining services (the "Agreement") made as of today
between :
Genesis Mining LTD, 3rd Floor, Par La Ville Place, 14 Par-la-Ville Road, Hamilton HM 08, Bermuda, ("Service Provider"); and
me, the Customer.

Pursuant to the terms of this Agreement, the Service Provider will make available to the Customer shares in the mining capacity of the Service Provider.

1. Services
The Service Provider agrees to provide to the Customer with the output of its mining capacity (the "Services") subject to the following terms:

Available Technology: SHA-256 Hashing

Term: The contract has no fixed and predetermined end date.

Mining Power: 1 TH/s

Payout frequency: daily

Mining Output ("Coins"): as agreed between Service Provider and Costumer, and, where applicable converted from time to time, e.g., Bitcoin or other electronic currencies

The Customer will be solely liable for the maintenance of the relevant technical equipment (software/hardware) that is required to receive the above service. The Customer will receive Coins mined in accordance with the above Mining Power and of applicable Fees as per 2.b. The Customer also acknowledges that the above Services will be rendered on a best effort basis (bestes Bemühen).  The availability of the Mining Power and, accordingly, the output of Coins may vary up to a maximum of 5%. Otherwise, the Service Provider ensures that it maintains all facilities and the relevant supplies in good working order, in order to avoid any of the above volatility with the diligence that it applies in its own dealings (diligencia quam in suis).

2. Remuneration
As a consideration for the Services the Customer agrees to pay to the Service Provider an amount of (the "Fee"):  
a. 0.446 USD per GH/s upfront
b. USD 0.0015 per GH/s and day, deducted on a daily basis* from the generated Coins

3. Limitation of Liability
Without detriment to the Service Providers obligation to render the Services on a best effort basis, only, any liability of the Service Provider hereunder and or in connection with this Agreement shall be limited to willful misconduct (Vorsatz) and gross negligence (grobe Fahrlässigkeit). Further, the Service Provider shall not be liable for any damages incurred by the Customer as a result of force majeur which shall include any disruption or breakdown of a Coin market.

4. Term
This Agreement is entered into for the term indicated above.
The Service Provider may terminate this Agreement with immediate effect if the Coins generated in the preceding 20 days do not suffice to pay the Fee under 2.b above.
Otherwise, this Agreement may only be terminated by either party for good cause (aus wichtigem Grund).
In the event of a termination for good cause by the Customer, and, for the avoidance of doubt in any such event, the Customer shall be entitled to a repayment of item 2.a above in the proportion of the time lapsed since the beginning of the Term divided by the Term.
In case the Service Provider voluntarily agrees to refund the Customer, a processing fee of USD 10 will be deducted.
5. Communication
All communication between the Service Provider and the Customer shall be made in writing which includes e-mail and other electronic messaging services (Textform).

6. Data Protection
The Customer agrees to the processing of its personal data provided in the context of this Agreement for the purpose described herein and also agrees, until revocation at any time to the storage of its data beyond the above Term. Should the Service Provider be required to obtain any further data in the context of providing its services hereunder, the Customer will without undue delay provide the relevant data so required by the Service Provider

7. Representations and Warranties
The Customer represents and warrants to the Service Provider that he is familiar with mining, crypto currencies and Bitcoin in particular and that he understands the nature and uses of mining crypto currencies and Bitcoin.

The Customer further represents and warrants that he will be the beneficial owner of the Coins.

8. Credit Card Services through Credit Card Service Provider
The following provisions under this section 8 only apply to the extent the Services are paid by credit card:

The Service Provider uses third party services and such third party’s affiliates services which enable the Customer to place monetary deposits and perform transfer of payments within the website of the Service Provider by making use of the Customers existing credit card (as and if available and applicable) (the “Credit Card Services” and the “Credit Card Service Provider”). The Credit Card Services do not include any additional service, and such Credit Card Services do not Customers account.

The Service Provider may share and transfer (including cross border transfer) personal information with the Credit Card Service Provider for the purpose of rendering the Credit Card Services which will be made to Service Providers website via the use of the Customers credit card. The personal information will be shared with the Credit Card Service Provider after the Customer elects to execute such monetary payments by using the Credit Card Services of the Credit Card Service Provider. For the purpose of this section 8 personal information shall include information that identifies or may identify the Customer including the information submitted by the Customer through the registration form when you subscribe to the website such as the Customers E-mail address, country and city and/or information provided through social websites or any other identifying information provided by the Customer while using the Services of the Service Providers website.

In addition, the Service Provider may transfer any non-personal information provided by the Customer through the Customers use of the Services on the Service Providers website to the Credit Card Service Provider in order to allow the Credit Card Service Provider to perform preliminary examinations of non-personal information for the purpose of determining if the Customer is qualified to use the Credit Card Services of such Credit Card Service Provider (including the history of the Customers transactions on the website which will be provided without any identifying information and solely for the purpose examinations of the Credit Card Service Provider).

By accepting these terms, the Customer represents that any and all information the Customer provides to the Service Provider is true and accurate. Any false or fraudulent information and/or use of the Services and/or Credit Card Services rendered to the Customer, is prohibited.

The Customer is not obligated by law to provide the Service Provider and/or the Credit Card Service Provider with any personal information. The Customer hereby acknowledges and agrees that he is providing the Service Provider and/or the Credit Card Service Provider with personal information at his/her own free will, for the purposes of rendering the Services and/or Credit Card Services.

By using the Credit Card Services the Customer hereby agrees and accepts that he will not be allowed and shall be prohibited from withdrawing any amounts that the Customer has deposited and/or is entitled to as a result of the Services rendered by the Service Provider for a period of 30 days. In case the payment by the Customer results in a charge-back or other material issues occur, the Service Provider is entitled to keep all existing, current and future Mining Output.

9. Governing Law, Language and Miscellaneous
This Agreement is governed by German law. To the extent permitted by applicable law the parties agree that the competent courts of Munich shall have non-exclusive jurisdiction to hear and determine any suit, action or proceeding, and to settle any disputes, which may arise out of or in connection with this Agreement
This Agreement is made in the English language and this English language version of this Agreement shall be binding on the parties hereto and shall prevail over any translation of this Agreement provided that in the case of any German translation of a word or phrase in the text of this Agreement, such German translation of such word or phrase shall prevail



*if, on any day, Coins generated on one day do not suffice to pay item 2 of the Fee above, the Service Provider may use Coins generated on any day thereafter for such payment.
Close

I checked for hashrate purchases up to 5TH and the rate was the same, so no sliding scale of charges that I can see

[Guy Corem]

...
For me, one of the major things (apart from the fees) is the pool, unless I can choose the pool, or at the very least Genesis discloses the pool(s) they are currently mining on its a no deal.

It's a feature request we've asked GM to implement down the road.

[Biffa]

So for me, to buy say the equivalent of a SP35 and host it myself vs cloud mining it


SP35: $2235 + $150 shipping = $2385 + your hosting costs

5TH Cloud: $2232 + the "daily charge" of $0.0015/GH works out to $7.5/day or $228/month for 5TH

Just have to compare that to the hosting fees you pay. For me its too close. Cloud mining should be much cheaper than hosted because of economies of scale.

On a final note, I'm not bashing Genesis mining, I think they are, truly one of the real cloud mining providers with real hardware and hashrate to back up their business model, also having Guy and Spondoolies vouch for them goes a long way in my book, its just that for now, for me, cloud mining isn't the solution. But I'll keep an eye out.

[edited to make sense after clearing my brain out]

[zvisha]

technical one:

The simplest way to underclock it is by setting limit to ASIC voltage. Don't touch the PSU watt limitation.

why? hard facts not to throttle a certain loop by psu limit in settings?

It's possible, but it is more difficult to match "start voltage" to "max wattage".  It can cause scenarios in which the top wattage is less then the initial wattage, which can confuse the scaling algorithms.

[Biffa]

technical one:

The simplest way to underclock it is by setting limit to ASIC voltage. Don't touch the PSU watt limitation.

why? hard facts not to throttle a certain loop by psu limit in settings?

It's possible, but it is more difficult to match "start voltage" to "max wattage".  It can cause scenarios in which the top wattage is less then the initial wattage, which can confuse the scaling algorithms.

So we should set psu max wattage to 288 and use the max voltage to manage the power usage of the units?

Obviously start voltage should be less than max voltage, but otherwise shoudl we use max voltage as our tool (as long as its more than start voltage)?

[zvisha]

technical one:

The simplest way to underclock it is by setting limit to ASIC voltage. Don't touch the PSU watt limitation.

why? hard facts not to throttle a certain loop by psu limit in settings?

It's possible, but it is more difficult to match "start voltage" to "max wattage".  It can cause scenarios in which the top wattage is less then the initial wattage, which can confuse the scaling algorithms.

So we should set psu max wattage to 288 and use the max voltage to manage the power usage of the units?

Obviously start voltage should be less than max voltage, but otherwise shoudl we use max voltage as our tool (as long as its more than start voltage)?

Yes, I always do that like that for under-clocking - but when I need different settings for PSU domains I have no choice but to use max PSU wattage.

[zvisha]

In case you missed it, the scheduling should be working in latest FW release.

[Biffa]

technical one:

The simplest way to underclock it is by setting limit to ASIC voltage. Don't touch the PSU watt limitation.

why? hard facts not to throttle a certain loop by psu limit in settings?

It's possible, but it is more difficult to match "start voltage" to "max wattage".  It can cause scenarios in which the top wattage is less then the initial wattage, which can confuse the scaling algorithms.

So we should set psu max wattage to 288 and use the max voltage to manage the power usage of the units?

Obviously start voltage should be less than max voltage, but otherwise shoudl we use max voltage as our tool (as long as its more than start voltage)?

Yes, I always do that like that for under-clocking - but when I need different settings for PSU domains I have no choice but to use max PSU wattage.

By different PSU domains you mean like where the asics furthest from the fans are hotter you might want to drop the watts on those?

[lulu2003]

I only asked this because it is a workaround unless there is no individual max voltage per sp20 loop.
it helps to get the temps equal while keeping fans speeds down in auto mode.
in Europe with high power prices you need to consider the sp20 as a e-heater but noise is likely to prevent that.
trying a lot with fans but hard to get in the +/-40db regions without dropping below 1,2-1,3 TH/s.
most high flow fans in computer stores are 3-pin without PWM and most PWM are way below 90cfm, though they claim more.
I did not try these Delta fans, but most of them seem to come from server cooling and I do not have much hope, OEMs considered to make them quiet

Sp20 fan is a 2A with capacity to run sp20 in summer with neraly 1,7 TH I think.
For underclocked 1,1 - 1,3 TH in the winter and below 20c ambient 0,8-1A should be ok, but needs to be PWM to use the auto control.
First tests with a Antminer S1 fan dropped noise at least around 4-6db in Auto mode and 1,3 TH

time for a single fan/noise thread  

[seriouscoin]

In case you missed it, the scheduling should be working in latest FW release.

For all SP? or just SP20-35?


when the mining is idle (stop), how much power does it use?

[zvisha]

In case you missed it, the scheduling should be working in latest FW release.

For all SP? or just SP20-35?

Just SP 20 to 35.
I will try and implement for SP10 next week.

Edit: In idle I would guess about 20 - 50 watt.
Never measured it.

[RealMalatesta]

In case you missed it, the scheduling should be working in latest FW release.

Thanks a lot. Ordering an SP3* right now, for this is really something I was waiting for! We pay much less during the night time, so will try how it works.

[Xircom]

Try and see my results on underclocking...its one impressive peace of kit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=933536.0