Do you trust the co-vid19 vaccine ?

[beertoll]

Thanks for inventing the way things work. Yours in contrast with the links to medical stuff... which I posted.

This is fun.

You didn't post links to medical stuff. You posted links to a commercial, far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory, and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience and far-right extremism and selling crap to people racking up millions.

Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews - https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/
This report presents the findings of an extensive investigation into a network of domains connected to NaturalNews, a US-based commercial enterprise
and website promoting conspiracy theories and disinformation.

[1714642796]

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[1714642796]

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[1714642796]

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[BADecker]

Thanks for inventing the way things work. Yours in contrast with the links to medical stuff... which I posted.

This is fun.

You didn't post links to medical stuff. You posted links to a commercial, far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory, and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience and far-right extremism and selling crap to people racking up millions.

Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews - https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/
This report presents the findings of an extensive investigation into a network of domains connected to NaturalNews, a US-based commercial enterprise
and website promoting conspiracy theories and disinformation.

There absolutely are some conspiracy sites talking bad about NaturalNews.

[tvbcof]

...
Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews - https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/
...

Brought to you by the same people who developed the gene therapy injection, then funded development of the SARS-cov-2 to justify it's use.  Of course.

  https://www.isdglobal.org/partnerships-and-funders/

[beertoll]

Thanks for inventing the way things work. Yours in contrast with the links to medical stuff... which I posted.

This is fun.

You didn't post links to medical stuff. You posted links to a commercial, far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory, and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience and far-right extremism and selling crap to people racking up millions.

Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews - https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/
This report presents the findings of an extensive investigation into a network of domains connected to NaturalNews, a US-based commercial enterprise
and website promoting conspiracy theories and disinformation.

There absolutely are some conspiracy sites talking bad about NaturalNews.

Yeah, and also hundreds of reputable ones.


Don't believe anything you read at Natural News | Grist
https://grist.org/food/heres-why-natural-news-is-neither/

But that’s not the reality for those getting their health information from online sources such as NaturalNews, one of many health-focused sites that peddle false and misleading claims to large audiences.
https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/26/health-websites-are-notoriously-misleading-so-we-rated-their-reliability/

Natural News: A Truly Deadly Brand of Pseudoscience
https://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/who-do-you-know-who-believes-in-the-most-deadly-kind-of-pseudoscience


Overall, we rate Natural News a Questionable source based on the promotion of quackery level pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, as well as extreme right-wing bias. This is one of the most discredited sources on the internet.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/natural-news/


Natural News went from selling cheesy kale chips to peddling far-right prophecies, racking up millions of Facebook followers along the way.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-natural-news-became-a-conspiracy-hub-rivaling-infowars

Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews
https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/

[beertoll]

...
Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews - https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/
...

Brought to you by the same people who developed the gene therapy injection, then funded development of the SARS-cov-2 to justify it's use.  Of course.

  https://www.isdglobal.org/partnerships-and-funders/

Bulshit alert! Another one baseless statement. None of these organizations "developed the gene therapy injection".

[MartinsCoin]

I believe in the vaccine. Many doubts arise because of the internet that creates confusion in people's minds. Since vaccines were discovered, humanity has started to live longer and better.

[BADecker]

Thanks for inventing the way things work. Yours in contrast with the links to medical stuff... which I posted.

This is fun.

You didn't post links to medical stuff. You posted links to a commercial, far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory, and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience and far-right extremism and selling crap to people racking up millions.

Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews - https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/
This report presents the findings of an extensive investigation into a network of domains connected to NaturalNews, a US-based commercial enterprise
and website promoting conspiracy theories and disinformation.

There absolutely are some conspiracy sites talking bad about NaturalNews.

Yeah, and also hundreds of reputable ones.


Don't believe anything you read at Natural News | Grist
https://grist.org/food/heres-why-natural-news-is-neither/

But that’s not the reality for those getting their health information from online sources such as NaturalNews, one of many health-focused sites that peddle false and misleading claims to large audiences.
https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/26/health-websites-are-notoriously-misleading-so-we-rated-their-reliability/

Natural News: A Truly Deadly Brand of Pseudoscience
https://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/who-do-you-know-who-believes-in-the-most-deadly-kind-of-pseudoscience


Overall, we rate Natural News a Questionable source based on the promotion of quackery level pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, as well as extreme right-wing bias. This is one of the most discredited sources on the internet.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/natural-news/


Natural News went from selling cheesy kale chips to peddling far-right prophecies, racking up millions of Facebook followers along the way.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-natural-news-became-a-conspiracy-hub-rivaling-infowars

Anatomy of a Disinformation Empire: Investigating NaturalNews
https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/investigating-natural-news/

Are any of your sources that you listed telling the truth, that Covid is a hoax? If they aren't, reputable is in the eye of the beholder. Everybody tells a little truth sometime. And everybody makes mistakes sometime. Upholding Covid after all the reputable info that has come out that it's a hoax, turns reputable into disreputable.

Check your so-called reputable sources.

I believe in the vaccine. Many doubts arise because of the internet that creates confusion in people's minds. Since vaccines were discovered, humanity has started to live longer and better.

When you look int archeological history, you will find peoples who lived much longer than we do today, as well as those who lived shorter lives. There is no proof that it was vaccines. It easily could have been better hygiene and nutrition.

[beertoll]

Are any of your sources that you listed telling the truth, that Covid is a hoax? If they aren't, reputable is in the eye of the beholder. Everybody tells a little truth sometime. And everybody makes mistakes sometime. Upholding Covid after all the reputable info that has come out that it's a hoax, turns reputable into disreputable.

Check your so-called reputable sources.

Wow, you're the first person I met who thinks that Covid is a hoax. Nice to meet you, I'm thrilled.


WHO | World Health Organization - Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic information.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019


Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center: Deaths and cases:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

[beertoll]

When you look int archeological history, you will find peoples who lived much longer than we do today, as well as those who lived shorter lives. There is no proof that it was vaccines. It easily could have been better hygiene and nutrition.

I don't think anyone states that it is only vaccines achievement. Better nutrition and hygiene are certainly a factor as well.

Vaccination leads to increased life expectancy. Vaccination greatly reduces disease, disability, death and inequity worldwide.
World Health Organization: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089.pdf


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

[MartinsCoin]

When you look int archeological history, you will find peoples who lived much longer than we do today, as well as those who lived shorter lives. There is no proof that it was vaccines. It easily could have been better hygiene and nutrition.

I don't think anyone states that it is only vaccines achievement. Better nutrition and hygiene are certainly a factor as well.

Vaccination leads to increased life expectancy. Vaccination greatly reduces disease, disability, death and inequity worldwide.
World Health Organization: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089.pdf


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

Excellent.

[tvbcof]

When you look int archeological history, you will find peoples who lived much longer than we do today, as well as those who lived shorter lives. There is no proof that it was vaccines. It easily could have been better hygiene and nutrition.

I don't think anyone states that it is only vaccines achievement. Better nutrition and hygiene are certainly a factor as well.

Vaccination leads to increased life expectancy. Vaccination greatly reduces disease, disability, death and inequity worldwide.
World Health Organization: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089.pdf


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

Yeah, if you put markers where vaccines went into widespread use (if they even did in some of those regions) it shows clearly what snake-oil salesmen the people are who are claiming that vaccines did much of anything.

[beertoll]

When you look int archeological history, you will find peoples who lived much longer than we do today, as well as those who lived shorter lives. There is no proof that it was vaccines. It easily could have been better hygiene and nutrition.

I don't think anyone states that it is only vaccines achievement. Better nutrition and hygiene are certainly a factor as well.

Vaccination leads to increased life expectancy. Vaccination greatly reduces disease, disability, death and inequity worldwide.
World Health Organization: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089.pdf


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

Yeah, if you put markers where vaccines went into widespread use (if they even did in some of those regions) it shows clearly what snake-oil salesmen the people are who are claiming that vaccines did much of anything.

If you put markers on fake data, then yes. But if you use actual data then no.

I don't know where is this chart from. Looks like it was made by someone with a strong bias against vaccines. I will post actual data.

I hope you understand that there are more than 3 vaccines and all of them may have different effects in combating diseases. Some diseases can be eradicated some mitigated. Maybe these 3 were chosen to make the chart more trustworthy. I certainly see why diphtheria was chosen for this chart - it is an infection caused by strains of bacteria and of course, better living conditions and hygiene will result in a reduction of cases. They wouldn't put polio on this chart.
List of Vaccines Used in the United States:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/vaccines-list.html

Better living conditions can help with stopping the spread of viral diseases but won't eliminate them.

Vaccination leads to increased life expectancy. Vaccination greatly reduces disease, disability, death and inequity worldwide.
World Health Organization: https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089.pdf

In 2012, the World Health Organization estimated that vaccination prevents 2.5 million deaths each year.
https://www.who.int/teams/immunization-vaccines-and-biologicals/strategies/global-vaccine-action-plan

[beertoll]

Yeah, if you put markers where vaccines went into widespread use (if they even did in some of those regions) it shows clearly what snake-oil salesmen the people are who are claiming that vaccines did much of anything.

Actual data about vaccines:

An infographic to illustrate the numbers about measles:

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/polio.html#:~:text=The%20case%20fatality%20ratio%20for,to%2075%25%20with%20bulbar%20involvement.




This graph illustrates the number of pertussis cases reported to CDC from 1922 to 2019. Following the introduction of pertussis vaccines in the 1940s when case counts frequently exceeded 100,000 cases per year, reports declined dramatically to fewer than 10,000 by 1965.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/surv-reporting.html


Tetanus (diphtheria)


Several factors have contributed to the decline in tetanus morbidity and mortality, including the widespread use of tetanus toxoid–containing vaccines since the late 1940s. Other factors include improved wound care and postexposure use of tetanus immune globulin (TIG), either for prophylaxis in wound management or for treatment of tetanus. In addition, increased rural-to-urban migration with consequent decreased exposure to tetanus spores may also have contributed to the decline in tetanus mortality noted during the first half of the 20th century.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/surv-manual/chpt16-tetanus.html



Source: https://ourworldindata.org/polio

The first polio vaccine was available in the United States in 1955. Thanks to the widespread use of polio vaccine, the United States has been polio-free since 1979.


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/polio

[Tash]

Compulsory workplace vaccination rules cannot apply to vegans
https://web.archive.org/web/20210729231718/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/29/compulsory-workplace-vaccination-rules-cannot-apply-vegans/

Cancer Enzymes in  "normal" Vaccines, not the covid shot
https://hwaairfan.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/murdered-doctors-who-discovered-cancer-enzymes-in-vaccines/

[beertoll]

Compulsory workplace vaccination rules cannot apply to vegans
https://web.archive.org/web/20210729231718/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/29/compulsory-workplace-vaccination-rules-cannot-apply-vegans/

Cancer Enzymes in  "normal" Vaccines, not the covid shot
https://hwaairfan.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/murdered-doctors-who-discovered-cancer-enzymes-in-vaccines/

Nagalase (also called alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase) is not known to be in any vaccine, based on the fact-sheets by the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Oxford University’s Vaccine Knowledge Project. The claim that it is present in vaccines is unsupported.

Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

Nagalase is naturally produced by the body and is not inherently harmful. In fact, the enzyme is needed to enable cells to digest glycolipids.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/claims-that-vaccines-contain-cancer-enzymes-fail-to-understand-what-the-enzyme-nagalase-actually-is-disclosetv/

The article about doctors was removed from the original site when it was debunked.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/04/blog-posting/doctors-deaths-were-not-connected-fake-news-websit/

Then the article was enhanced with more lies (like increasing their number of doctors from a few to 70 and hiding their names so nothing can be verified) and reposted on free wordpress blogs and forums.

[Natsuu]

Yeah, if you put markers where vaccines went into widespread use (if they even did in some of those regions) it shows clearly what snake-oil salesmen the people are who are claiming that vaccines did much of anything.

Actual data about vaccines:

An infographic to illustrate the numbers about measles:

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/polio.html#:~:text=The%20case%20fatality%20ratio%20for,to%2075%25%20with%20bulbar%20involvement.




This graph illustrates the number of pertussis cases reported to CDC from 1922 to 2019. Following the introduction of pertussis vaccines in the 1940s when case counts frequently exceeded 100,000 cases per year, reports declined dramatically to fewer than 10,000 by 1965.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/surv-reporting.html


Tetanus (diphtheria)


Several factors have contributed to the decline in tetanus morbidity and mortality, including the widespread use of tetanus toxoid–containing vaccines since the late 1940s. Other factors include improved wound care and postexposure use of tetanus immune globulin (TIG), either for prophylaxis in wound management or for treatment of tetanus. In addition, increased rural-to-urban migration with consequent decreased exposure to tetanus spores may also have contributed to the decline in tetanus mortality noted during the first half of the 20th century.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/surv-manual/chpt16-tetanus.html



Source: https://ourworldindata.org/polio

The first polio vaccine was available in the United States in 1955. Thanks to the widespread use of polio vaccine, the United States has been polio-free since 1979.


Source: https://ourworldindata.org/polio

The only thing I can't understand thoroughly is why bother posting nonsense shits and faking it. Does it actually do something in this community? is there any rewards or something for posting such things?

If there is, then ok, but if there's not... Just why?

[Porfirii]

Damn,

A regional politician in my country is asking the President of the Government to make mandatory the vaccination of the entire population because "a 5% or 7% of negationists can mess up things for everyone".

Are we crazy!? How non vaccinated people can do any harm to the ones already vaccinated?

In addition, in some regions, it is starting to be mandatory to show the Covid Passport in order to be able to have lunch or dinner at a restaurant.

[beertoll]

Damn,

A regional politician in my country is asking the President of the Government to make mandatory the vaccination of the entire population because "a 5% or 7% of negationists can mess up things for everyone".

Are we crazy!? How non vaccinated people can do any harm to the ones already vaccinated?

In addition, in some regions, it is starting to be mandatory to show the Covid Passport in order to be able to have lunch or dinner at a restaurant.

Some vaccines are already mandatory and have been for many decades,  before some people were born.

Some people who are against vaccines have been vaccinated for a number of diseases and just don't realize it.

For example, in the US, each state decides which vaccines are required for children before enrollment and attendance at childcare facilities or schools.

Some professions require mandatory vaccinations as well.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/records/schools.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/index.html

For the state of Illinois the minimum requirement for mandatory vaccines is:
Diphtheria
Pertussis
Tetanus
Polio
Measles
Rubella
Mumps
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
Invasive Pneumococcal Disease
Hepatitis B
Varicella
Meningococcal Disease

Virtually every country has a list of mandatory vaccines. You can check requirements on your country's health department website and find out what is already mandatory in your country and learn that you have been vaccinated against a bunch of diseases and realize that one more mandatory vaccine is not as big of a deal as people make it.

Regarding why is it important for as many people as possible to get the COVID vaccine, there are several reasons, one of them is to not let the virus mutate in unvaccinated and create new variants that can infect vaccinated.
You can read more here if you are genuinely interested:
https://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2021/05/03/why-is-it-important-for-as-many-people-as-possible-to-get-the-covid-vaccine/

[Porfirii]

A regional politician in my country is asking the President of the Government to make mandatory the vaccination of the entire population because "a 5% or 7% of negationists can mess up things for everyone".

Some vaccines are already mandatory and have been for many decades,  before some people were born.

I agree, but all the vaccines in your list have passed the legal pre-clinical and clinical trials and are proven to be safe to use.

But we are not talking about these, but about a new therapy that has just a few months of research.

I do understand that taking into account the emergency in all the world and the threat for some elderly and vulnerable people, they are helping many people for whom it is less the risk of the vaccine than of the virus; but making mandatory for all, young and children with a near zero risk of dying from Covid included, without knowing the side-efects in the mid-long term, is just insane to me.

I have worked for a biotech and here you are the typical timeline prescripted for any drugs (without the preclinical phase which should be added); taking into account that a vaccine, genic therapy or whatever can be much riskier than any typical drug, it is my opinion that no one should be forced to get it at least for now. Because if we agree, what will be next? Would you really like every children in the world to be inyected with something you don't know which effects could have in, say, 5 years? I don't think we should let any Government to make experiments with the entire population mandatory.

[beertoll]

A regional politician in my country is asking the President of the Government to make mandatory the vaccination of the entire population because "a 5% or 7% of negationists can mess up things for everyone".

Some vaccines are already mandatory and have been for many decades,  before some people were born.

I agree, but all the vaccines in your list have passed the legal pre-clinical and clinical trials and are proven to be safe to use.

But we are not talking about these, but about a new therapy that has just a few months of research.

I do understand that taking into account the emergency in all the world and the threat for some elderly and vulnerable people, they are helping many people for whom it is less the risk of the vaccine than of the virus; but making mandatory for all, young and children with a near zero risk of dying from Covid included, without knowing the side-efects in the mid-long term, is just insane to me.

I have worked for a biotech and here you are the typical timeline prescripted for any drugs (without the preclinical phase which should be added); taking into account that a vaccine, genic therapy or whatever can be much riskier than any typical drug, it is my opinion that no one should be forced to get it at least for now. Because if we agree, what will be next? Would you really like every children in the world to be inyected with something you don't know which effects could have in, say, 5 years? I don't think we should let any Government to make experiments with the entire population mandatory.

I understand when people base their concerns on that. But these concerns are still fueled by misconceptions.

Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

Claims that COVID-19 vaccines are “experimental”, have skipped animal testing, and have not completed initial research trials are false. FDA quote - RNA vaccines have been held to the same rigorous safety and effectiveness standards as all other types of vaccines in the United States. Here is a long read from FDA - https://www.fda.gov/media/139638/download

Why is it rolled out so quickly then? Because of the emergency, vaccine development was accelerated by combining clinical trial phases to help speed up the progress. But the processes and safety weren't compromised. Governments funded the development and usual bureaucratic obstacles weren't in the way.
https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/how-covid19-vaccine-developed-fast
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/how-were-researchers-able-develop-covid-19-vaccines-so-quickly

The modern world is more agile and we have a better technology that allows us to do things better and faster than in the sixties.
RNA-based vaccines are quicker and cheaper to develop and the next vaccines for other diseases will be developed and manufactured much faster than before.

About side effects.
Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. For this reason, the FDA required each of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines to be studied for at least two months (eight weeks) after the final dose. Millions of people have received COVID-19 vaccines, and no long-term side effects have been detected.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

After vaccination, the cells make copies of the spike protein, and the mRNA is degraded within a few days and the spike proteins last only up to a few weeks. Nothing stays in your body after a few weeks to cause long-term damage.

And no, mRNA vaccines cannot change your DNA.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

COVID-19 vaccines authorized for emergency use in the U.S. and UK are not experimental and have completed all animal and clinical trials.

Moderna and Phizer applied for full approval of their vaccines under priority review and most likely they will be approved within months.

It is still going to be too fast for some people and they would like to test it with time. But there is no time.

The danger is already here and there is a much greater risk for people to be hurt than some baseless fear that something can go wrong in 5 years.

People transferring or getting the virus on the way from and to work and bringing it to their co-workers and family members who may be at a higher risk than they are. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures, and Guillain-Barre syndrome.

And even if people have mild COVID-19 symptoms there is a risk of organ damage and long-term health problems.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

I know people whose health is ruined after recovery from COVID-19.