Bitcoin Forum
December 11, 2016, 08:07:58 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: I would purchase mining time with...
BTC - 231 (57.6%)
MTGOXUSD Codes - 31 (7.7%)
Credit Card - 112 (27.9%)
Other e-currency (ie. Dwolla, Paxum) - 27 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 399

Pages: « 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 [62] 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 ... 131 »
  Print  
Author Topic: GPUMAX | The Bitcoin Mining Marketplace  (Read 200535 times)
jjiimm_64
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680


View Profile
March 28, 2012, 05:18:14 PM
 #1221

No offense, but if you're buying shares on GPUMAX and sending them to PPS pools, you're kinda missing the point.

In any case, leave if you want, more BTC for the rest of us!
Derpbit offers proportional, btw.

Yeah, but he was specifically talking about PPS.

No offense, but if you're buying shares on GPUMAX and sending them to PPS pools, you're kinda missing the point.

But wherever else you send them, how can you achieve a positive ROI?

Since you cant time the purchases precisely (AFAIK), its rather useless for hopping. YOu might try hopping with purchased shares by sending them to your own proxy and hop from there, but aside from the stales I suspect that would cause, and your proxy that would have to withstand such massive spikes, AFAIK gpumax doesnt even let you send them to any pool other than the ones they approved. Even if you could, good luck getting >160% PPS from hopping these days.

So I guess Im missing the point too. Who is buying at 160% PPS and what for?


My guesses are private pools, volume testing (of mining proxies or whatnot) and sheer bets that a proportional pool will get lucky.

There is supposedly some secret reason that no one will reveal (see the thread a while back), but I have not managed to figure out what it is.


I have mined at gpumax with 40g for a while now.... 

I have made 7 separate purchases,   its fun

1jimbitm6hAKTjKX4qurCNQubbnk2YsFw
1481443678
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481443678

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481443678
Reply with quote  #2

1481443678
Report to moderator
1481443678
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481443678

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481443678
Reply with quote  #2

1481443678
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
guruvan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518

ShastaFarEye Prospectors mazaclub & mazacha.in


View Profile WWW
March 28, 2012, 05:48:19 PM
 #1222

If that's the case, preaching about a "dangerous" service to bitcoin doesn't seem like the right way to go about fixing this. Even if you can convince pirate to not provide the service, it'd be fairly simple for someone shady to do the same thing, in a different community, for more nefarious purposes. If bitcoin's security fundamentally depends on convincing people to do the right thing, then that seems like a bug in bitcoin that should be addressed. You might be able to convince upstanding community members to introduce simple safeguards to workaround known protocol issues, but as interest grows, so will people doing things like this.

I welcome "fixes", but they really aren't possible.  Bitcoin is a decentralized system— but it's not decentralized anymore if you put control of it up for grabs in real-time by the highest bidder.  This is true for _any_ decentralized system.

Some of the security of bitcoin comes from the fact that it's economically more sensible to cooperate than to defect— that doing nasty things to the system will _lose_ money for the people who have the ability to do it (e.g. blockchain bloating attacks, and transaction prohibition attacks).  But a key element in that is educating people about whatever is in their best interests.  As a miner, it's not in your interest to cause increased centralization or enable attacks.  

There are many techniques which can be applied to resist centralization. Bitcoin is more than a piece of software. More than a protocol. It's an ecosystem, an economy. And education is part of our defenses.

Here is a more scary and concrete example.

Lets imagine that meta-pool services with open mining policies became very popular and together represented >50% of the hash power.    I, the evil attacker, setup a copy of bitcoin to perform the timewarp attack:  I will lie about the timestamps in my blocks in such a way to drive down the difficulty to 1 while massively cranking up the block rate.    I then go to the mining loan services and purchase all the hash power they have available offering 0.0001 BTC/share.  This astronomical rate will get me all the hash power I need, and I'll easily be able to pay for it because I'll be making 0.02 BTC/share once I get the difficulty down to 1.

Normally we're resistant to the timewarp attack because anyone who controlled >50% of the hash power would find it not in their best interest to blow up bitcoin. But in this case, my investment would only be the funds I needed to front to start the attack. The miners themselves wouldn't get a chance to disagree with this policy because I will have bought their mining on the open market, and carried out my attack before they even noticed— perhaps I could even manage to cash out some of the spoils of the attack before bitcoin collapsed completely, making it all quite profitable for me... and leaving miners with a bunch of worthless gpus.

(which is also why the fact that I could go out and buy lots of hash power isn't a problem)

All this is also an argument why any consolidation is bad— but in the case of pools they see substantial continued income by sitting back and not being evil compared to being evil and potentially getting a lot of money quickly but then being out of the game.. The incentives are not the same for market purchases. There is no harm in trying a little evil, even if you're not sure you'll be successful... because you'll only lose the small premium you had to pay to try.

Of course, if the service is more conservative about where the hash power can go— then thats a big improvement. And I'd withdraw most of my objections there. (though not all— the service is itself more consolidation that we don't really need)

While I do, in fact, want to purchase hashing power in this way, I have had the same sentiment as gmaxwell. There is a distinct possibility of an entity contracting for a majority of power. (through shell companies, and all kinds of obfuscation so no one noticed the consolidation even if the mining community is vigilant.

Other than this type of peer pressure, I'm not really sure that there's anyway to prevent it - consolidation is a natural process in the free market. Maybe general gentleman's agreement to not sell any one entity too much hash power at any one time is a good start?

I have to wonder if, in the process of consolidation, the (individual) people (rather than the banks, tx processors, miners, etc) will feel it necessary to mine regardless of the personal expense to protect their investment from big business. p2pool (or similar such solutions) could make a huge dent in the consolidation, especially the consolidation by contract - if solominers made up a majority of the network, the consolidation by the rest wouldn't be as dangerous.

In the moment, I think there are enough unconsolidated entities that want to purchase hashing power, that services like GPUMax are a necessity. An example business plan might include guarantees of minimum hashing power, and requires purchase of spot hash power to fill in for offline equipment or wants to ramp up despite delivery delays, etc. There's lots of reasons this will happen.

Mine at the Maza Club! with ShastaFarEye Prospectors! Mazacoin PPS & P2pool mining, and more services coming soon!
Maza Means Money! Check yours at the mazacha.in!

Please contact me  on my  OTC registered GPG (A54E87F2) Key's email address or guruvan@shastafareye.net  and encrypt all correspondence.
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


1ngldh


View Profile
March 28, 2012, 09:33:33 PM
 #1223

While I do, in fact, want to purchase hashing power in this way, I have had the same sentiment as gmaxwell. There is a distinct possibility of an entity contracting for a majority of power. (through shell companies, and all kinds of obfuscation so no one noticed the consolidation even if the mining community is vigilant.

Other than this type of peer pressure, I'm not really sure that there's anyway to prevent it - consolidation is a natural process in the free market. Maybe general gentleman's agreement to not sell any one entity too much hash power at any one time is a good start?
Pools are validated as part of the process (can't just add any old pool and start mining).

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
GenTarkin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932


View Profile
March 29, 2012, 01:01:08 AM
 #1224

Hey guys, I got the invite on this project a little while ago, and its concept still escapes me a bit.
I would like to dabble in offering up my mining at a set rate. I assume to do this is create a pool(the one I currently mine at w/ my current credentials) then a worker that points to that pool in gpumax interface. Then set the pps price if offering my work for other people on gpumax to purchase from right?
So, I dont know what to set my pps fee too, it seems pointless to set it lower than what going pps rate is cuz I could easily get that at a pool by mining there. But if I set it higher, noone will wanna buy my shares . . right?
So, I dont fully understand this =./

I bought some shares a while back @ .000055 or w/e and I havent put my btc in cuz .. I thought this was a ripoff, so its just sitting there not doing anything. I dont know how to put up a lower bid, it doesnt seem to offer option of changin purchase price when making purchase.

Anyways, if someone could jsut give me a good starting point for my mining and what to set share price @ for public work, any way to tell what the going rate avg is on the site itself? cuz its kinda hard doin it in the dark.

GenTarkin's MOD Kncminer Titan custom firmware! v1.0.4! <--- CLICK HERE
Donations: bitcoin- 1Px71mWNQNKW19xuARqrmnbcem1dXqJ3At || litecoin- LYXrLis3ik6TRn8tdvzAyJ264DRvwYVeEw
P4man
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
March 29, 2012, 10:29:34 AM
 #1225

GPUmax seems to be buying again nonstop atm, and has been for the past 8 or 12 hours. I dont know how many GH GPUmax controls, but its clearly in the 100s of GH, if not nearer 1TH.

The first post in this thread shows a list of approved pools where you can send hashes to if you buy them. We all wonder who is buying, but perhaps we can find out at least where they are being sent. I checked them all, one by one. Lets go over them:

Deepbit. It has no historical charts for hashrate that I can find, but its currently at 3.9 TH, which is roughly where it was yesterday.
Slush, no historical charts either, but atm down ~200GH compared to yesterday
BTC guild. No real change: https://www.btcguild.com/pool_chart.php
Ozcoin: down by 50 or so GH, perhaps more, but they had some downtime: https://ozco.in/content/hashrate
Arsbitcoin:  not sure, but compared to Organofcorti's analysis, down by 50+GH https://arsbitcoin.com/poolstats.php
Eclipse: no change: https://eclipsemc.com/graphs/historical_rate.php
Bitclockers: no change, slightly down perhaps but also had downtime: http://bitclockers.com/statistics
BTCmine: down ~50GH compared to yesterday : http://btcmine.com/stats/
Bitminter: down ~40-50GH compared to yesterday (no charts, but https://bitminter.com/livestats/big)

So almost all of them are down since gpumax became active again and miners are no longer mining on their private pools; ,
But best I can tell, none are really up either. So if those "lost" hashes from the above pools,  plus the hashes that come from pools that are not on that list,like Clipse and Goat, P2Pool, or whatever,  if they dont end up on any of those approved pools... where are they going?

Pirate, is that something you are willing to disclose, and if not, why not?


edit: shortly after writing this, gpumax seems to have stalled, and I notice deepbit is down ~400GH, slush is back up the 200GH it was missing earlier. Are they being sent to deepbit?

ummas
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
March 29, 2012, 11:14:49 AM
 #1226

It was fun to have GPUMAX working aggain. Sorry that that has ended :/

Diff. rised...
pirateat40
Avast Ye!
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378


"Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late."


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 01:53:00 PM
 #1227

GPUmax seems to be buying again nonstop atm, and has been for the past 8 or 12 hours. I dont know how many GH GPUmax controls, but its clearly in the 100s of GH, if not nearer 1TH.

The first post in this thread shows a list of approved pools where you can send hashes to if you buy them. We all wonder who is buying, but perhaps we can find out at least where they are being sent. I checked them all, one by one. Lets go over them:

Deepbit. It has no historical charts for hashrate that I can find, but its currently at 3.9 TH, which is roughly where it was yesterday.
Slush, no historical charts either, but atm down ~200GH compared to yesterday
BTC guild. No real change: https://www.btcguild.com/pool_chart.php
Ozcoin: down by 50 or so GH, perhaps more, but they had some downtime: https://ozco.in/content/hashrate
Arsbitcoin:  not sure, but compared to Organofcorti's analysis, down by 50+GH https://arsbitcoin.com/poolstats.php
Eclipse: no change: https://eclipsemc.com/graphs/historical_rate.php
Bitclockers: no change, slightly down perhaps but also had downtime: http://bitclockers.com/statistics
BTCmine: down ~50GH compared to yesterday : http://btcmine.com/stats/
Bitminter: down ~40-50GH compared to yesterday (no charts, but https://bitminter.com/livestats/big)

So almost all of them are down since gpumax became active again and miners are no longer mining on their private pools; ,
But best I can tell, none are really up either. So if those "lost" hashes from the above pools,  plus the hashes that come from pools that are not on that list,like Clipse and Goat, P2Pool, or whatever,  if they dont end up on any of those approved pools... where are they going?

Pirate, is that something you are willing to disclose, and if not, why not?


edit: shortly after writing this, gpumax seems to have stalled, and I notice deepbit is down ~400GH, slush is back up the 200GH it was missing earlier. Are they being sent to deepbit?

Morning,

I have to say that I'm always impressed with the lengths our community will go to find out all kinds of statistical data.  With that said, GPUMAX does not disclose current/historical hash rates or by whom/where the hashes go.  I can tell you that we've gained the attention of some very large miners that need no pool to be profitable.  So even if you could gather all the information on every pool it would be hard to determine a total.  We do plan on adding some indicators on the site that show the loads we send to each pool but that is down the road a little longer. 

P.S.  If you believe we've had this much trouble managing "100s of GH" I'm confident in saying that you might be underestimating us. Wink!

In other news, the system ran last night without issue and looks like we fixed the primary bug that was holding us back.  Now on with the show...

-pirate

P4man
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
March 29, 2012, 02:14:51 PM
 #1228

Quote
I have to say that I'm always impressed with the lengths our community will go to find out all kinds of statistical data

If you are pushing around multiple TH as you seem to suggest, it should come as no surprise people are curious about who's buying and where its going.. thats a pretty significant chunk of the entire network and its a bit clouded in mystery right now.

Quote
I can tell you that we've gained the attention of some very large miners that need no pool to be profitable.  So even if you could gather all the information on every pool it would be hard to determine a total.

I know, and I wasnt even trying that, I was actually only looking for increases at the approved pools, to see where they ended up, and couldnt find a lot. 

Looking forward to seeing on the site where the hashes are being sent to; Im just curious as anyone whats being done with them and how that could make them worth 160% PPS to the buyer.

pirateat40
Avast Ye!
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378


"Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late."


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 02:41:13 PM
 #1229

If you are pushing around multiple TH as you seem to suggest, it should come as no surprise people are curious about who's buying and where its going.. thats a pretty significant chunk of the entire network and its a bit clouded in mystery right now.

Who is buying?  We do have some addicts. Smiley

Quote
I know, and I wasnt even trying that, I was actually only looking for increases at the approved pools, to see where they ended up, and couldnt find a lot. 

The approved pool list is a bit outdated as well.  I'll get it updated, we're always testing new pools, capable speeds and it get's tedious to keep updated.

Quote
Looking forward to seeing on the site where the hashes are being sent to; Im just curious as anyone whats being done with them and how that could make them worth 160% PPS to the buyer.

We have no shortage of purchases and with a few things "coming soon" the purchase volume is only going to increase.

I know some people want more information and it seems to be clouded in mystery but I'm confident that within the next month everyone will see the big picture and we can all just sit back and enjoy.


imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 574

Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 02:51:03 PM
 #1230


We have no shortage of purchases and with a few things "coming soon" the purchase volume is only going to increase.

You'll be receiving a letter from my agent to discuss the lack of licensing arrangements.  Until such arrangements are worked out, I must insist that you immediately cease and desist the use of that phrase.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
BurtW
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 02:53:51 PM
 #1231

Is it OK if I use this:  coming soonTM

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 574

Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 03:04:31 PM
 #1232

I'm pretty sure both Bitcoin Mag and Butterfly Labs are already in court fighting over this Smiley

lulz

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
minero1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 145



View Profile
March 29, 2012, 03:26:09 PM
 #1233

Im just curious as anyone whats being done with them and how that could make them worth 160% PPS to the buyer.

You and me both, but if you of all people don't know then i just give up the search
TheSeven
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


FPGA Mining LLC


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 03:30:35 PM
 #1234


We have no shortage of purchases and with a few things "coming soon" the purchase volume is only going to increase.

You'll be receiving a letter from my agent to discuss the lack of licensing arrangements.  Until such arrangements are worked out, I must insist that you immediately cease and desist the use of that phrase.

Where is the "Like" button?  Grin

My tip jar: 13kwqR7B4WcSAJCYJH1eXQcxG5vVUwKAqY
GenTarkin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932


View Profile
March 29, 2012, 04:29:13 PM
 #1235

Alright, after messing around w/ GPUmax more I think I understand it better now.
I still dont get why someone would want to buy shares at such a high rate though.
I assume 2 so far: With PPS mining through this site, the best setup would be, try to get higher PPS rate when your work leased out to public, if its not being leased, send work to a PPS pool, because sending to prop pool would be pointless, cuz prop return would be horrible if your miners are doin leased work most the time.

Also, Im guessing the whole point to purchasing shares, even at such a high rate, your willing to bet those shares against the luck of a given non pps pool...that way you have a chance to make a profit on those overpaidfor shares when the pool is really lucky. What sucks is , if the pool is really unlucky while mining it w/ your purchased shares, then you not only lose money in the overpaid pps rate, but also since luck would be low, you miss out on that too.
So, I understand the mining on this site. I just dont know why someone would pay such a high rate on PPS all for a gamble on luck in prop pools.
I mean sure its being able to mine w/o needing hardware, but @ current rate its at a loss.
So, whats the appeal in buying shares?

GenTarkin's MOD Kncminer Titan custom firmware! v1.0.4! <--- CLICK HERE
Donations: bitcoin- 1Px71mWNQNKW19xuARqrmnbcem1dXqJ3At || litecoin- LYXrLis3ik6TRn8tdvzAyJ264DRvwYVeEw
P4man
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
March 29, 2012, 04:38:18 PM
 #1236

You and me both, but if you of all people don't know then i just give up the search

Oh dont give up. Someone knows the answer for sure, but I havent seen it posted yet. Please keep looking!

THose people suggesting buyers are gambling on prop pools.. even if you can time the purchase exactly right (which as I understand, you cant), its gotta be tough to break even on 160% PPS hopping a single pool. You might do that once in a while, but on average, nope.

Im sure some people will try anyway, and all the other reasons often mentioned like testing pools, boosting hashrate etc Im sure are all valid, but for heavens sake, we are apparently talking about more than 10% of the network hashrate here, and it doesnt look like Pirate is handling this as a short term hype that will quickly blow over when the novelty wears off. There is gotta be something else. I wonder if its somehow related to the "mystery miner"?

I guess we will find out one day - and then I will probably feel stupid for not seeing it before. I already do actually.
 Smiley


Turbor
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008


BitMinter


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 04:58:25 PM
 #1237


Who is buying?  We do have some addicts. Smiley

There should be more addicts Grin thank you for your work !

GenTarkin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932


View Profile
March 29, 2012, 05:21:54 PM
 #1238

So, is that the question thats being asked by you guys.. the same one I am? "who would buy all these shares at 60% fee?" pretty much and what would they be used for?

I will note some strange behaviour I have seen on eclipsemc in the last couple weeks. Normally that pool is around 400gh
But when our luck got really low for many blocks in a row. Our hashrate shot up to 900gh for a little bit(like hours or a day) then when we hit some good blocks our hashrate went back to 400-500gh.

I wonder if this was gpumax purchased mining?

GenTarkin's MOD Kncminer Titan custom firmware! v1.0.4! <--- CLICK HERE
Donations: bitcoin- 1Px71mWNQNKW19xuARqrmnbcem1dXqJ3At || litecoin- LYXrLis3ik6TRn8tdvzAyJ264DRvwYVeEw
imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 574

Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.


View Profile WWW
March 29, 2012, 05:23:38 PM
 #1239

So, is that the question thats being asked by you guys.. the same one I am? "who would buy all these shares at 60% fee?" pretty much and what would they be used for?

Who cares?  Do you stand outside the casino asking everyone that goes in why they are going in when there is a known house advantage?

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
BinaryMage
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546


Ad astra.


View Profile
March 29, 2012, 05:33:09 PM
 #1240

So, is that the question thats being asked by you guys.. the same one I am? "who would buy all these shares at 60% fee?" pretty much and what would they be used for?

Who cares?  Do you stand outside the casino asking everyone that goes in why they are going in when there is a known house advantage?

What would you say if I told you I did?

-- BinaryMage -- | OTC | PGP
Pages: « 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 [62] 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 ... 131 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!