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Question: I would purchase mining time with...
BTC - 231 (57.6%)
MTGOXUSD Codes - 31 (7.7%)
Credit Card - 112 (27.9%)
Other e-currency (ie. Dwolla, Paxum) - 27 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 399

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Author Topic: GPUMAX | The Bitcoin Mining Marketplace  (Read 213307 times)
imsaguy
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March 29, 2012, 06:06:28 PM
 #1241

Who cares?  Do you stand outside the casino asking everyone that goes in why they are going in when there is a known house advantage?

You know what the people in the casino are in for. Im not ready to assume the volume GPUmax is pushing is all gambling (at odds, far worse than any casino). If you want an analogy, if I saw a long line of people queuing at a newspaper stand to buy boxes full of lottery tickets at 2x the regular price, yes, I would ask them and others if they knew something that I didnt.  They might just be nuts, but I wouldnt just assume it.

And since they are under no obligation to spell it out for you, do you keep asking the same questions over and over again or do you finally just quiet down and move along?

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GenTarkin
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March 29, 2012, 06:07:21 PM
 #1242

Yeah no kidding, I care and am curious.
Cuz all I can see it being useful for is betting on the luck of prop pools.
Or manipulating pool rankings without needing to purchase hardware.

I'd re-word this and say you are risking on being the worker to find the block on a pool that pays in a proportionally appropriate manner, but not necessarily a proportional pool. What if your worker (your gpumax purchase) found 3 blocks in 10 minutes on a pool that rewarded you for that effort? Would that make you happy?

Every single pool pays out proportional to the work that was put in on that round, some do it differently than others.
Yes, this makes sense but your strictly going up against luck still.
So, in my case w/ the 33% power savings from 160%. Lets say I buy 20k shares @ 127%.
Im willing to pay a 27% fee just to see if I can get more than 27% lucky in a prop type pool for those 20k shares.
Thats what it basically boils down to.

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imsaguy
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March 29, 2012, 06:09:20 PM
 #1243

Yeah no kidding, I care and am curious.
Cuz all I can see it being useful for is betting on the luck of prop pools.
Or manipulating pool rankings without needing to purchase hardware.

I'd re-word this and say you are risking on being the worker to find the block on a pool that pays in a proportionally appropriate manner, but not necessarily a proportional pool. What if your worker (your gpumax purchase) found 3 blocks in 10 minutes on a pool that rewarded you for that effort? Would that make you happy?

Every single pool pays out proportional to the work that was put in on that round, some do it differently than others.
Yes, this makes sense but your strictly going up against luck still.

The MegaMillions Lottery in the USA has odds of 1 in 175 Million of winning the jackpot and people play.  What's your point?

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

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GenTarkin
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March 29, 2012, 06:14:00 PM
 #1244

Yeah no kidding, I care and am curious.
Cuz all I can see it being useful for is betting on the luck of prop pools.
Or manipulating pool rankings without needing to purchase hardware.

I'd re-word this and say you are risking on being the worker to find the block on a pool that pays in a proportionally appropriate manner, but not necessarily a proportional pool. What if your worker (your gpumax purchase) found 3 blocks in 10 minutes on a pool that rewarded you for that effort? Would that make you happy?

Every single pool pays out proportional to the work that was put in on that round, some do it differently than others.
Yes, this makes sense but your strictly going up against luck still.

The MegaMillions Lottery in the USA has odds of 1 in 175 Million of winning the jackpot and people play.  What's your point?

Which is my point.
From the mining side of gpumax there is no inherent risk / luck / gamble at all. Only potential profit w/ no risk of loss.
From the purchasing side of gpumax there is a risk in not being lucky w/ purchased shares. Which I guess goes to say thats how it is w/ any sort of gamble...
But, why not just do this on an exchange instead of using mining power. Its like taking 2 steps whereas you could just do 1 step to get the end result LOL.

So, to use the lottery example: I guess the miners on gpumax are the lottery owners / printers of tickets. The purchasers are the well buyers of tickets hoping to hit it big.

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March 29, 2012, 06:37:17 PM
 #1245

Why is purchases not working ?

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March 29, 2012, 07:21:03 PM
 #1246


Which is my point.
From the mining side of gpumax there is no inherent risk / luck / gamble at all. Only potential profit w/ no risk of loss.
From the purchasing side of gpumax there is a risk in not being lucky w/ purchased shares. Which I guess goes to say thats how it is w/ any sort of gamble...
But, why not just do this on an exchange instead of using mining power. Its like taking 2 steps whereas you could just do 1 step to get the end result LOL.

So, to use the lottery example: I guess the miners on gpumax are the lottery owners / printers of tickets. The purchasers are the well buyers of tickets hoping to hit it big.
Why is purchases not working ?

It is a good thing you have the Exchanges to fallback on for your gambling fix.

People may use the purchase option for various reasons whether it be speculation or to make up some hashing power for down hardware. If you have to ask why someone would want to use that part of the service it most likely is something you would not need to use. To dabble a little in speculating, any opportunity to not deal with an exchange is a good one in my opinion, it seems none of them are all that great.

Hopefully a few posts can go by without someone asking about the purchase rates or mining rates for that matter, you start to think the people asking expect a purchase rate equal to what they are mining at. I know you didn't ask about that GenTarkin, just an observation of previous pages in this thread. If you ask about rates and it is not answered in a reply.....maybe some things are best left unsaid or to figure it out for yourself, it is not that difficult.

The service is a great niche that is now filled, I applaud Pirate for this contribution and the many others he has made to this community. Keep up the good work.
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March 29, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
 #1247

Yeah no kidding, I care and am curious.
Cuz all I can see it being useful for is betting on the luck of prop pools.
Or manipulating pool rankings without needing to purchase hardware.

I'd re-word this and say you are risking on being the worker to find the block on a pool that pays in a proportionally appropriate manner, but not necessarily a proportional pool. What if your worker (your gpumax purchase) found 3 blocks in 10 minutes on a pool that rewarded you for that effort? Would that make you happy?

Every single pool pays out proportional to the work that was put in on that round, some do it differently than others.
Yes, this makes sense but your strictly going up against luck still.

The MegaMillions Lottery in the USA has odds of 1 in 175 Million of winning the jackpot and people play.  What's your point?

Which is my point.
From the mining side of gpumax there is no inherent risk / luck / gamble at all. Only potential profit w/ no risk of loss.
From the purchasing side of gpumax there is a risk in not being lucky w/ purchased shares. Which I guess goes to say thats how it is w/ any sort of gamble...
But, why not just do this on an exchange instead of using mining power. Its like taking 2 steps whereas you could just do 1 step to get the end result LOL.

So, to use the lottery example: I guess the miners on gpumax are the lottery owners / printers of tickets. The purchasers are the well buyers of tickets hoping to hit it big.
been there, done that.

the inability to make a purchase run at a specific timing pissed me off.
it's a very unreliable for the buyers that need it at a certain time.

for buyers, it's gpumaxcasino.

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March 29, 2012, 07:27:53 PM
 #1248

Why is purchases not working ?

Sold out to mystery miner Tongue

GenTarkin
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March 29, 2012, 07:33:03 PM
 #1249

Why is purchases not working ?

Sold out to mystery miner Tongue

OH ... so if all the miners are currently busy w/ other peoples work you cant purchase shares?
Good to know.

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March 29, 2012, 07:45:17 PM
 #1250

Why is purchases not working ?

Sold out to mystery miner Tongue

OH ... so if all the miners are currently busy w/ other peoples work you cant purchase shares?
Good to know.

I don't know. Pirate knows the answer(s)

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March 29, 2012, 07:54:39 PM
 #1251

Oh wait, the purchase system is actually broken atm...I get a huge error when trying to click Purchases. Which would explain(hopefully) why Ive stopped mining for other people, rather started mining for pool again.

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e21
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March 29, 2012, 10:46:01 PM
 #1252

All work seems to be going to offline pools again.. Sad

More bugs?
GenTarkin
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March 30, 2012, 12:15:08 AM
 #1253

All work seems to be going to offline pools again.. Sad

More bugs?
Experiencing the same here =/

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March 30, 2012, 04:39:29 AM
 #1254

Public mining resumed...I wonder if there just wasnt any orders to fullfill during that timeframe...hrm..

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March 30, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
 #1255

for buyers, it's gpumaxcasino.

While I don't have an invite yet, it sure seems to me that many miners (and potential gpumax purchasers) have a rather shortsighted view.

In most any business I've been involved in, the expectation of profitability is more like 36 months, and miners seem to expect profitability in 8 or less.  Huh Pretty unsustainable.

with a 3-5 year outlook on BTC, mining at high variance at a 60% premium (with no capital expenditures, no recurring expense or labor expense) still looks looks pretty attractive.

In the end I would envision that many mining ops will sell their services for immediate profit, while other services will buy those and resell those services. This make actually diminish the risk of anyone purchaser controlling too much network.

In the telecom business, it's very difficult to guarantee that 2 ordered circuits are physically distinct (for true redundancy) because each of the telcos leases excess capacity to each other, based on complicated hedging methods and the spot prices for transport (etc) - in many cases Telco A leases dark fiber to Telco B who leases it to Telco C who then leases it back to Telco A - at a certain point, it's really hard to know who actually owns the fiber in the ground.

I'm willing to bet that mining gets to be like this to a large degree, and as I think about it right now, that seems like it might add to security rather than detract from it, in the long run, because it will distance the actual miner from the will trying to wield it (making the purchaser's attempts at attacks much more difficult, especially if there are vigilant miners)


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March 30, 2012, 06:16:08 AM
 #1256

Is there a place where i can find whats is my daily income or i had to do it on my own ??
Yesterday all morning(7-12AM GMT) my shares was leased, but i got 0,14125000 BTC at 6:30 PM.
It`s not a lot for my power...

there`s no reset counting button or smth :/
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March 30, 2012, 07:30:14 AM
 #1257

for buyers, it's gpumaxcasino.

While I don't have an invite yet, it sure seems to me that many miners (and potential gpumax purchasers) have a rather shortsighted view.

In most any business I've been involved in, the expectation of profitability is more like 36 months, and miners seem to expect profitability in 8 or less.  Huh Pretty unsustainable.

it was 3 months for me.

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March 30, 2012, 08:14:50 AM
 #1258

for buyers, it's gpumaxcasino.

While I don't have an invite yet, it sure seems to me that many miners (and potential gpumax purchasers) have a rather shortsighted view.

In most any business I've been involved in, the expectation of profitability is more like 36 months, and miners seem to expect profitability in 8 or less.  Huh Pretty unsustainable.

it was 3 months for me.

I didn't say impossible Smiley I'm just suggesting that this rate of profitability is generally unsustainable long term. It's not clear how long the rate of the exchange rate increase will sustain those kinds of ROIs, nor is it really clear how much future network events (difficulty, reward drops) will affect that ROI. And this is why buyers will pay a premium.

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March 30, 2012, 08:59:12 AM
 #1259

In the end I would envision that many mining ops will sell their services for immediate profit, while other services will buy those and resell those services. This make actually diminish the risk of anyone purchaser controlling too much network

What you describe to some extend explains long term mining contracts, where the buyer assumes the risk of currency fluctuation and difficulty changes, while the seller (usually) gets cash up front and income security. Thats perfectly sensible, and something I suspect gpumax will also offer in the future.

But right now, buying on GPUmax is very short term, your hashes are processed in a matter of hours, or days at most. Unless you can somehow produce more bitcoins than you spent on that short timeframe,  and knowing that you have to pay 160% of the expected return of a hash, the question remains: why?

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March 30, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
 #1260

In the end I would envision that many mining ops will sell their services for immediate profit, while other services will buy those and resell those services. This make actually diminish the risk of anyone purchaser controlling too much network

What you describe to some extend explains long term mining contracts, where the buyer assumes the risk of currency fluctuation and difficulty changes, while the seller (usually) gets cash up front and income security. Thats perfectly sensible, and something I suspect gpumax will also offer in the future.

But right now, buying on GPUmax is very short term, your hashes are processed in a matter of hours, or days at most. Unless you can somehow produce more bitcoins than you spent on that short timeframe,  and knowing that you have to pay 160% of the expected return of a hash, the question remains: why?

Service Level Agreements + Minimum Hash Rates. 160% of todays price may well still be 500% below tomorrows price, and so MHRs will need to be maintained for some organizations.

Another reason? Let's say I got a really big farm, and I come to an arrangement with a large pool op to put my hashes there. Let's say the pool op thinks I have enough hash power to make it worthwhile to make a special deal and reduce fees, if I will guarantee MHR with SLA of 99.99% uptime for 100% of the MHR. Now let's say I have a 3 ton A/C unit die, and I have to shutdown 75% of my hashes for 3 days to repair - if I can't buy this spot contract, I lose the deal I have with the pool op, and cut my long term income.

One more reason (and the opposite of the threat this model poses) is so that a large vested interest (think large volume money business, bank) can buy spot hash power for protection - i.e. if they were to suspect that Pool A is too big (or a competitor might amass contracts nearing 51%) - they might start to outbid competitors until they confirmed a minimum % control. Another way, one organization might buy massive spot contracts to execute at a specified time for control to reduce any potential transaction attacks.

Obviously, the second reason is a way off before people really start to act on it, but as the business around bitcoin grows, so will the mining industry (I would hope!)

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