[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Hueristic]

Announcement - Proof-of-Work tweak and a note on key reuse

https://getmonero.org/2018/02/11/PoW-change-and-key-reuse.html

Thanks for posting this in the barrens of BCT.

Years ago I was recommending having patch in algo's on hand for this exact purpose I'm glad to see it is being done.

I really liked to see this.

Key reuse

It is important to realize that the security of the Monero network and your own Monero is dependent on the security of your Monero keys. Your Monero keys are MONERO keys. Do NOT use them for any other purpose, including claiming coins from a Monero fork. Using your keys to spend the same outputs twice on different forked blockchains will damage your privacy, and others', as both spends will bear the same key image, but different rings, with only your spent output in common (this does not impact stealth addresses nor confidential transactions, just ring signatures). Moreover, by using such a "same keys" fork, the security of your Monero private keys now depends on those third parties.

    Forkers, if you're forking Monero, DO NOT ask users to reuse their Monero keys, but have them create new keys for your fork.

    Users, if a forker asks you to use your Monero keys for their fork (after this notification is published), they're trying to manipulate you into being part of a large scale attack on Monero.

Be safe, and don't reuse your Monero keys for any other purpose than using Monero.

Have any such PoW functions been mentioned, does anyone know?

There have quite a few of these discussions over the years, many of those pertaining to Quantum resistance as well.

Monero is dead if PoW algo is changed now in March.

LOL, Bullish sign!!!

Wars the matter primer afraid your bot nets going down?

[wudafuxup]

So is there any plan to mitigate the on going botnet problem XMR, BCN and now ETN are suffering from?
*image*

I don't know why everybody keeps there are massive botnets just because there are unknown pools. I'm sure that Monero miners value privacy too.

PS: I know that there are botnets, it's just I'm sure they're nowhere near 71% of the network.

Yea it's likely not that high, but it's definitely a very large number. There have been a lot of people who have done studies on monero and it's botnets... You would have to be naive to pretend it's not a big deal. I understand many of you are invested and will shill to not make the coin look bad but still, have some sense. Am I the only one that thinks it's BS that a few A-hole criminals out there are amassing more coins than likely anyone mining nowadays.

For what it's worth I think the techonology behind monero is fantastic, but can't help but think it will be it's downfall someday at the same time.

BTW I rarely post anything in this thread anymore since the mods love to delete anything that doesn't make the coin look good.

[Anon136]

Monero is dead if PoW algo is changed now in March.

Well will you look at who it is boys! Troll indicator flashing red!

[ozkraut]

Monero is dead if PoW algo is changed now in March.

Well will you look at who it is boys! Troll indicator flashing red!

Yep - bullish methinks

[explorer]

Bot nets secure the network, whether you agree or not.  Secure your systems if you don't like them?  I lock my doors because I don't want anyone walking in and taking my shit.  But but locks are expensive and need keys and stuff!  Life sucks, get a helmet.  If there's an easy way to steal with minimal chance of repercussions, someone will always do it.  They are not stealing the block reward, they are stealing the hashes from those who don't care enough to prevent it.  No worse than mining at school or work (or Russian nuclear plant ), or stealing the electricity for your mining farm or grow-op.

[Neo.Prometheus]

Great Progress Team! Keep it up! 

[ctya]

Bot nets secure the network, whether you agree or not.  Secure your systems if you don't like them?  I lock my doors because I don't want anyone walking in and taking my shit.  But but locks are expensive and need keys and stuff!  Life sucks, get a helmet.  If there's an easy way to steal with minimal chance of repercussions, someone will always do it.  They are not stealing the block reward, they are stealing the hashes from those who don't care enough to prevent it.  No worse than mining at school or work (or Russian nuclear plant ), or stealing the electricity for your mining farm or grow-op.

botnets are the problem and not the botnet mining
we should be making an effort to increase awareness of the device vulnerabilities wherever possible
and not trying to change the algorithm to make it better for our own mining efforts

personally I would rather know that botnets are securing Monero instead of conducting a DDOS attack
(and yes I will grant you the premise that they might be doing both)

a higher hash rate is better for the network

[Globb0]

suffering from?

In what way specifically are you suffering?

I also found it weird that, despite explanation, you continue to assert 70%+ regardless.

cybercriminals swipping over 70% (will likely continue going up higher) of the reward

[Anon136]

So I've been thinking about this MoneroV fork problem. I saw the suggestion in a reddit thread about a tool that would allow monero users to specify ring signature inputs thus allowing us to sign with the same ring signature inputs that we used on the MoneroV blockchain.

I was wondering if anyone has given thought to a two pronged approach? We could additionally utilize a blacklist of ring sig inputs used on the forked chain. Some trusted team member could produce and update this blacklist. It could be a basic text file that we drag and drop into our monero directory. I know it would harm privacy to shrink the pool of available ring sig participants but we would only be blacklisting the ones used to produce the initial transaction on the MoneroV chain. So it would be a tiny tiny fraction of the ring signatures out there. Additionally new ring signature candidates are being produced constantly every 2 minutes every day.

It's a partial solution and an imperfect solution to a difficult problem but maybe worth considering.

[Hueristic]

So I've been thinking about this MoneroV fork problem. I saw the suggestion in a reddit thread about a tool that would allow monero users to specify ring signature inputs thus allowing us to sign with the same ring signature inputs that we used on the MoneroV blockchain.

I was wondering if anyone has given thought to a two pronged approach? We could additionally utilize a blacklist of ring sig inputs used on the forked chain. Some trusted team member could produce and update this blacklist. It could be a basic text file that we drag and drop into our monero directory. I know it would harm privacy to shrink the pool of available ring sig participants but we would only be blacklisting the ones used to produce the initial transaction on the MoneroV chain. So it would be a tiny tiny fraction of the ring signatures out there. Additionally new ring signature candidates are being produced constantly every 2 minutes every day.

It's a partial solution and an imperfect solution to a difficult problem but maybe worth considering.

Do you have a link to that thread? I don't know enough about this to have an opinion.

[Anon136]

So I've been thinking about this MoneroV fork problem. I saw the suggestion in a reddit thread about a tool that would allow monero users to specify ring signature inputs thus allowing us to sign with the same ring signature inputs that we used on the MoneroV blockchain.

I was wondering if anyone has given thought to a two pronged approach? We could additionally utilize a blacklist of ring sig inputs used on the forked chain. Some trusted team member could produce and update this blacklist. It could be a basic text file that we drag and drop into our monero directory. I know it would harm privacy to shrink the pool of available ring sig participants but we would only be blacklisting the ones used to produce the initial transaction on the MoneroV chain. So it would be a tiny tiny fraction of the ring signatures out there. Additionally new ring signature candidates are being produced constantly every 2 minutes every day.

It's a partial solution and an imperfect solution to a difficult problem but maybe worth considering.

Do you have a link to that thread? I don't know enough about this to have an opinion.

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7x297t/careful_with_monero_forks_with_airdrops/du537ij/ It's a pretty simple to understand issue.

[Hueristic]

So I've been thinking about this MoneroV fork problem. I saw the suggestion in a reddit thread about a tool that would allow monero users to specify ring signature inputs thus allowing us to sign with the same ring signature inputs that we used on the MoneroV blockchain.

I was wondering if anyone has given thought to a two pronged approach? We could additionally utilize a blacklist of ring sig inputs used on the forked chain. Some trusted team member could produce and update this blacklist. It could be a basic text file that we drag and drop into our monero directory. I know it would harm privacy to shrink the pool of available ring sig participants but we would only be blacklisting the ones used to produce the initial transaction on the MoneroV chain. So it would be a tiny tiny fraction of the ring signatures out there. Additionally new ring signature candidates are being produced constantly every 2 minutes every day.

It's a partial solution and an imperfect solution to a difficult problem but maybe worth considering.

Do you have a link to that thread? I don't know enough about this to have an opinion.

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7x297t/careful_with_monero_forks_with_airdrops/du537ij/ It's a pretty simple to understand issue.

Thanks, reading it now.

[ozkraut]

So I've been thinking about this MoneroV fork problem. I saw the suggestion in a reddit thread about a tool that would allow monero users to specify ring signature inputs thus allowing us to sign with the same ring signature inputs that we used on the MoneroV blockchain.

I was wondering if anyone has given thought to a two pronged approach? We could additionally utilize a blacklist of ring sig inputs used on the forked chain. Some trusted team member could produce and update this blacklist. It could be a basic text file that we drag and drop into our monero directory. I know it would harm privacy to shrink the pool of available ring sig participants but we would only be blacklisting the ones used to produce the initial transaction on the MoneroV chain. So it would be a tiny tiny fraction of the ring signatures out there. Additionally new ring signature candidates are being produced constantly every 2 minutes every day.

It's a partial solution and an imperfect solution to a difficult problem but maybe worth considering.

Do you have a link to that thread? I don't know enough about this to have an opinion.

Here you go. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7x297t/careful_with_monero_forks_with_airdrops/du537ij/ It's a pretty simple to understand issue.

Thanks, reading it now.

so if all of us move their coins at the right time (t block) and then donate their old seed to the ffs / funding to claim the MnnnV with purpose of dump. would this alleviate some of the threat? Just dunno how many would play as it will reveal their prefork holdings to the donated to entity plus greed of course....anyhow ... thinking to find an advantage in the issue

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

txs fees are a joke! what are you doing it about it? how will ever small time miners be able to afford just the exit fee from their pools?

[Anon136]

txs fees are a joke! what are you doing it about it? how will ever small time miners be able to afford just the exit fee from their pools?

I did a transaction last night and it was about 85 cents. That isn't THAT bad and bullet proofs are being worked on right now that will reduce fees by 80% or more.

When you make a transaction do it like this:

Code:

transfer unimportant [address] [amount] [transaction id]

It will then tell you how many blocks you can expect until your transaction is included. For me it's always 1. But make sure that what ever it tell you is acceptable for you.

[dEBRUYNE]

txs fees are a joke! what are you doing it about it? how will ever small time miners be able to afford just the exit fee from their pools?

See:

https://getmonero.org/2017/12/11/A-note-on-fees.html

[cool4y]

This thread is insanely long. Is monero superior compared to dash and zcash?

[Drhiggins]

Long time since I've posted here.  Have been busy running my mining rigs and other crypto projects.  Can someone give me a State of the Union run down on Monero and what has been going on and what is coming up for the year?

Links or replies will work for me.  Hope everyone is well here.  This has always been my go to place for Monero news and problem solving. 

[Anon136]

This thread is insanely long. Is monero superior compared to dash and zcash?

Dash has cheaper transaction fees right now so if you just wanna pay someone who accepts dash and you dont care about privacy than perhaps there are some situations where dash would be superior. However if privacy is your concern than yes it isn't even a comparison.

Dash just has a coin join style mixing. It has been shown to be broken. I cant seem to find that research paper right now can someone in this thread help me out? Additionally "privacy" is optional on dash meaning if you use it it looks suspicious making the currency not necissarily fungible in all cases. Oh also its a premine scam. It was released as X-Coin. At its inception the devs of X-Coin said they wouldnt start mining till the next day but actually started in secret before everyone else and additionally it mined some huge percentage of the currency supply in that first night. It then re-branded to DarkCoin a couple of days later to try to escape this debacle. And re-branded AGAIN to dash to presumably further distance its self. I don't remember all the specific figures but that's enough info to go on if you want to research it.

ZCash requires a trusted set up. Meaning if everyone involved in the innitial setup was reliable and trustworthy than it is safe (*edit* it uses really cutting edge modern not very well tested cryptography so maybe not even then). But if one of them was a bad actor than all supposedly "private" transactions can be discovered by him or who ever he gave the private information to. Additionally producing a private transaction is EXTREMELY computationally intensive. As I understand it it takes some peoples computer up to an hour to crunch all the numbers. Also the transactions are huge and so clog up the blockchain and are expensive to get included. This means the feature is rarely used and so again like I said with dash, has negative implications for fungibility.

So now for monero. Being as unbiased as possible I will try to critique it as well. Monero was pretty fairly distributed but there was a time in the early days when a guy had personally developed mining software that was more optimized than what anyone else had. It wasn't like with dash where he mined a third of the damned currency supply in a day. I think he had like 50% efficiency advantage over everyone else for like a month. Someone correct me with the specifics if you remember. It was nothing catastrophic but hes probably pretty rich now. Also we are currently facing the first real threat to our privacy right now in the form of an issue with ring signature input reuse on an up coming fork chain called MoneroV. If someone wanted to criticize us for having an issue there they wouldn't be wrong. Another criticism is that our transactions are rather large. I think around 13kb instead of like 250 bytes for a bitcoin transaction. This is actively being addressed though with a proposal called bullet proofs which will have probably about an 85% space savings. Maybe a great deal more more if implemented with batched transactions and people widely adopt and use batched transactions. Other than those issues monero has very strong privacy through the combination of several core features.

1) All transactions are forced to be private. This has an externalizing effect of improving everyone's privacy. Imagine it this way, if you have very well mixed coins, no one can trace them back to you, but then you send them to a known address that is a huge information leak on your end. It undermines a lot of the privacy that you gained by your therough mixing. On the extreme end, someone can go to the guy you sent to and use the 5 dollar wrench technique to find out who you are.

2) All amounts that are sent are unknown. Look at this random transaction from the block explorer https://moneroexplorer.com/tx/ec14e0f6c91966a5b899c49297a23f8e21e02716b517938c69740892d46e1990 Look at anywhere that it says ammount. It's just a "?".

3) All monero addresses are untraceable. That is to say there is no way to know who is receiving a given transaction.

4) All monero sending addresses are unlinkable. Ring signatures are used for this. A transaction is signed by several separate inputs. It is possible to know that one of those inputs is the true signatory and is valid but it is not possible to know WHICH of the inputs is the true signatory.

That was a lot of work so I hope you really care and weren't just exploiting some signature campaign. Or if you are than hopefully SOMEONE gets some value from it.

[Nathan047]

This thread is insanely long. Is monero superior compared to dash and zcash?

If you're looking for anonymity, then yes,
Edit: Read the post above mine