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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1107829 times)
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SuperClam
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May 27, 2014, 11:14:24 AM
 #121

This sounds fun and interesting. However, I was wondering, is there a way to check your clam balance (or the balance you are 'entitled' to)  without importing your wallet.dat first?

A complicated answer:

Yes, and No.

If you understood change addresses (which do NOT show up in the client, and most users don't even know they have them) you could take a look at the CLAMS block chain and see if those addresses have a balance.

However, to make this even more difficult, the first time you start the Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin Client it creates no less than 100 change addresses.

However, to make this even more difficult, every single time you send coins you use up a change address, and your Client periodically creates more change addresses.

However, to make this even more difficult, the addresses in the Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin Client would need to be converted into an address that could be searched on the CLAM Network.  This would require a hand-rolled script.

So, the short answer is, "yes."

The Long answer is, "It is quite difficult."

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May 27, 2014, 11:20:47 AM
 #122

This sounds fun and interesting. However, I was wondering, is there a way to check your clam balance (or the balance you are 'entitled' to)  without importing your wallet.dat first?

A complicated answer:

Yes, and No.

If you understood change addresses (which do NOT show up in the client, and most users don't even know they have them) you could take a look at the CLAMS block chain and see if those addresses have a balance.

However, to make this even more difficult, the first time you start the Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin Client it creates no less than 100 change addresses.

However, to make this even more difficult, every single time you send coins you use up a change address, and your Client periodically creates more change addresses.

However, to make this even more difficult, the addresses in the Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin Client would need to be converted into an address that could be searched on the CLAM Network.  This would require a hand-rolled script.

So, the short answer is, "yes."

The Long answer is, "It is quite difficult."

Ok, I understand it would take a lot of time.

Another question. If I have multiple wallets (say dogecoin and litecoin), is there a way to import multiple wallet.dat files? I tried 'importwallet' but I am getting an error, probably because the wallet.dat is encrypted. Is there a way to import, without first undoing encryption of original wallet, saving unencrypted wallet.dat, and re-encrypting?

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PMP: PApSSdorQds5tQysymwDXPAN3viJLFTUs8
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May 27, 2014, 12:27:15 PM
 #123

This sounds fun and interesting. However, I was wondering, is there a way to check your clam balance (or the balance you are 'entitled' to)  without importing your wallet.dat first?
A complicated answer:
Yes, and No.
If you understood change addresses (which do NOT show up in the client, and most users don't even know they have them) you could take a look at the CLAMS block chain and see if those addresses have a balance.
However, to make this even more difficult, the first time you start the Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin Client it creates no less than 100 change addresses.
However, to make this even more difficult, every single time you send coins you use up a change address, and your Client periodically creates more change addresses.
However, to make this even more difficult, the addresses in the Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin Client would need to be converted into an address that could be searched on the CLAM Network.  This would require a hand-rolled script.
So, the short answer is, "yes."
The Long answer is, "It is quite difficult."
Ok, I understand it would take a lot of time.
Another question. If I have multiple wallets (say dogecoin and litecoin), is there a way to import multiple wallet.dat files? I tried 'importwallet' but I am getting an error, probably because the wallet.dat is encrypted. Is there a way to import, without first undoing encryption of original wallet, saving unencrypted wallet.dat, and re-encrypting?

Sure, thanks for stopping in Grin

So, the multiple wallets is the more difficult part.

As far as encryption is concerned, we have imported an encrypted wallet, without un-encrypting it.  It is simply STILL an encrypted wallet once it is inside of the CLAM Client, i.e. you need your passphrase to dispose of your CLAMS.



The dumpwallet/importwallet command is a command created by Sipa.  The format it dumps in is NOT the same format as the wallet.dat file.

MultiBit uses the same format when you "Export" your wallet, and the core Bitcoin client uses the same format when you "dumpwallet".
To my knowledge, Litecoin and Dogecoin do NOT have the importwallet/dumpwallet command at all.



AGAIN, ALWAYS HAVE A BACK-UP IN A SAFE PLACE.

To do multiple encrypted wallets, one would have to copy the encrypted wallet.dat file over to the AppData/Clam/ folder, and run the CLAM Client with --salvagewallet.  The double -- is important.  This would have be done for each wallet.

To get all of the coins into a single wallet, the coin would have be sent to an address in a single wallet, after each was imported.



Hope that helps and makes sense!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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May 27, 2014, 03:23:26 PM
 #124

If you do want them, well.... then: Your Welcome Smiley

<justpedantic>
Your -> You're
</justpedantic>

<actuallyimportant>
You're apparently contradicting yourself ...

Your instructions in the OP:
Quote
9. Run the CLAM Client with the commandline argument -salvagewallet.
...
Quote
8. Run the CLAM Client from the command line adding the -salvagewallet argument.

And from a subsequent response of yours:
Quote
run the CLAM Client with --salvagewallet.  The double -- is important.
</actuallyimportant>

HTH.

Cheers,

Graham
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May 27, 2014, 04:11:31 PM
 #125

Anybody had successfully received some CLAMs?

Yes. After reading through the instructions and subsequent confirmatory posts, I decided to take the direct route.

I have standard linux wallets for BTC, LTC and DOGE.

BTC and LTC wallets are empty, never seen any transactions so neither are due to receive CLAMs because the addresses have never been recorded in the bitcoin blockchain as part of a transaction.

But all is not lost, I am a (lapsed) Shibe and my DOGE wallet address has at some time in the past been recorded in the Dogecoin blockchain as part of a transaction (when I acquired the DOGE and when I credited the tipbot's address).

Code:
$ cat /etc/issue
Ubuntu 14.04 LTS \n \l
$ cd /tmp
$ git clone https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams
$ cd clams
$ qmake-qt4                                              # Qt5 menubar icons and ubuntu unity don't place nice.
$ make -j4                                               # entry-level core i3 (Sandybridge) Acer laptop
                                                         # I ignored several compiler warnings about an unchecked
                                                         # return type, might hack up a PR later.
$ ./clam-qt -printtoconsole -debug
^C
$ cp ~/Documents/BackupWallets/dogecoin-unsecured-backup-wallet-00.dat ~/.clam/wallet.dat
$ ./clam-qt

Works for me, better than expected, I got 4 separate credits of 4.60545574 CLAM.

Why 4 credits, I wonder?

And it's successfully staking, a transaction just showed up in the wallet, itemised as "Mined", totalling 0.00136895.

The overview states I have 13.8-odd CLAM to spend and I am staking 4.6-odd CLAM

Quote

Status: 1/unconfirmed, broadcast through 5 nodes
Date: 27/05/2014 16:55
Source: Generated
Debit: 0.00 CLAM
Net amount: -4.60545574 CLAM
Transaction ID: 1e605b6726a3682ac739dfe8f2fa96e9479b7271d2da484a40946a9dc62a2da5

Generated coins must mature 510 blocks before they can be spent.


(I shuffled the transaction hash id before posting)

Congratulations on what's beginning to look like a solid implementation of a really well-considered approach.

Cheers,

Graham
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May 28, 2014, 12:24:08 AM
 #126

If you do want them, well.... then: Your Welcome Smiley
<justpedantic>
Your -> You're
</justpedantic>
<actuallyimportant>
You're apparently contradicting yourself ...
Your instructions in the OP:
Quote
9. Run the CLAM Client with the commandline argument -salvagewallet.
...
Quote
8. Run the CLAM Client from the command line adding the -salvagewallet argument.
And from a subsequent response of yours:
Quote
run the CLAM Client with --salvagewallet.  The double -- is important.
</actuallyimportant>
HTH.
Cheers,
Graham

Thank you very much for the corrections.
Indeed, the command line mistake was a very important one!

Think the OP post should be correct now, and reflect the changes.



Anybody had successfully received some CLAMs?
Yes. After reading through the instructions and subsequent confirmatory posts, I decided to take the direct route.
I have standard linux wallets for BTC, LTC and DOGE.
BTC and LTC wallets are empty, never seen any transactions so neither are due to receive CLAMs because the addresses have never been recorded in the bitcoin blockchain as part of a transaction.
But all is not lost, I am a (lapsed) Shibe and my DOGE wallet address has at some time in the past been recorded in the Dogecoin blockchain as part of a transaction (when I acquired the DOGE and when I credited the tipbot's address).
Code:
$ cat /etc/issue
Ubuntu 14.04 LTS \n \l
$ cd /tmp
$ git clone https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams
$ cd clams
$ qmake-qt4                                              # Qt5 menubar icons and ubuntu unity don't place nice.
$ make -j4                                               # entry-level core i3 (Sandybridge) Acer laptop
                                                         # I ignored several compiler warnings about an unchecked
                                                         # return type, might hack up a PR later.
$ ./clam-qt -printtoconsole -debug
^C
$ cp ~/Documents/BackupWallets/dogecoin-unsecured-backup-wallet-00.dat ~/.clam/wallet.dat
$ ./clam-qt
Works for me, better than expected, I got 4 separate credits of 4.60545574 CLAM.
Why 4 credits, I wonder?
And it's successfully staking, a transaction just showed up in the wallet, itemised as "Mined", totalling 0.00136895.
The overview states I have 13.8-odd CLAM to spend and I am staking 4.6-odd CLAM
Quote

Status: 1/unconfirmed, broadcast through 5 nodes
Date: 27/05/2014 16:55
Source: Generated
Debit: 0.00 CLAM
Net amount: -4.60545574 CLAM
Transaction ID: 1e605b6726a3682ac739dfe8f2fa96e9479b7271d2da484a40946a9dc62a2da5
Generated coins must mature 510 blocks before they can be spent.

(I shuffled the transaction hash id before posting)
Congratulations on what's beginning to look like a solid implementation of a really well-considered approach.
Cheers,
Graham

Super happy to hear you've had a good experience with the import process Grin

And a stake right away! 
Likely due to the fact that the coins had been accruing "coinDays"/age since the sends were done.
That effect should only get more powerful as time goes on.
New users will have a great deal of coinDays accrued and hopefully stake quite quickly on the network!

Concerning the 4 separate credits:

The block chain does not (thankfully) store information connecting multiple addresses within the same wallet.  Evidentally, there were 4 separate outputs on the DOGE block chain to 4 separate addresses in your wallet -> thus 4 separate credits!

We did our best to try to formulate rules that would be as fair as possible, alas there is only so much data on the block chain.

Like we've said previously, it isn't perfect: but it includes everyone!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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May 28, 2014, 01:48:13 AM
 #127

Code:
1. Download the CLAM Client, below.
2. Find the location of your BTC, LTC, or DOGE wallet.dat file.
3. This is usually the folder: "C:/Users/<YOUR_USERNAME>/AppData/Roaming/<COIN_NAME>/"
4. You may have to enable "Show Hidden Files And Folders" to see this folder.
5. Replace <YOUR_USERNAME> with your Windows account username.
6. Replace <COIN_NAME> with either Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin.
7. Inside of that folder you will find the WALLET.DAT file that holds the private keys for your wallet.
8. Make a copy of this file and place it in your "C:/Users/<YOUR_USERNAME>/AppData/Roaming/Clam/" folder.
9. Run the CLAM Client with the commandline argument --salvagewallet (Note the double --).
10. You should see your Clams.
   Can  someone make images tutorial for this  Cry

                                 
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     ▒▓▓██  ▓████▓▒▒░░░░░░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒░▒░▒▒░ ░██▒  ░████▒
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✬✬✬✬✬

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May 28, 2014, 02:08:34 AM
 #128


Concerning the 4 separate credits:

The block chain does not (thankfully) store information connecting multiple addresses within the same wallet.  Evidentally, there were 4 separate outputs on the DOGE block chain to 4 separate addresses in your wallet -> thus 4 separate credits!

Ah, I think I get it - thanks.

Just to check my understanding, am I correct in surmising that there's a bonanza of CLAMs heading out to those people who actually followed the recommendations?

Quote
"as a common measure of security and privacy, it is ALWAYS recommended that users use a different receive address for each payment they receive."

If so, good for them.

Cheers,

Graham
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May 28, 2014, 04:43:09 AM
 #129

Ah, I think I get it - thanks.

Just to check my understanding, am I correct in surmising that there's a bonanza of CLAMs heading out to those people who actually followed the recommendations?

Quote
"as a common measure of security and privacy, it is ALWAYS recommended that users use a different receive address for each payment they receive."

If so, good for them.
Yes and no.  If they left coins in those addresses, and still had them when CLAM did their blockchain dumps, then yes.  I use a unique receiving address for everything, but then bundle the coins into other addresses on occasion, so in my case I don't have coins in all the receiving addresses, and wouldn't get CLAMs for those (but I would get 4clam for each "bundle" address that still has coins).
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May 28, 2014, 05:12:18 AM
 #130

Interesting.
I'd like to join in!
all the Btc address will receive coins?
I'll have a try! Roll Eyes

ShareCoin Free and Fair Distribution, Share to moon! SbuXjdoiErjmAoGd3s4jcyEWiRifuorVv3
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May 28, 2014, 06:33:42 AM
 #131

If they left coins in those addresses

<fx>sound of penny dropping</fx>

Thanks.

Cheers,

Graham
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May 28, 2014, 08:02:44 AM
 #132

Code:
1. Download the CLAM Client, below.
2. Find the location of your BTC, LTC, or DOGE wallet.dat file.
3. This is usually the folder: "C:/Users/<YOUR_USERNAME>/AppData/Roaming/<COIN_NAME>/"
4. You may have to enable "Show Hidden Files And Folders" to see this folder.
5. Replace <YOUR_USERNAME> with your Windows account username.
6. Replace <COIN_NAME> with either Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin.
7. Inside of that folder you will find the WALLET.DAT file that holds the private keys for your wallet.
8. Make a copy of this file and place it in your "C:/Users/<YOUR_USERNAME>/AppData/Roaming/Clam/" folder.
9. Run the CLAM Client with the commandline argument --salvagewallet (Note the double --).
10. You should see your Clams.
   Can  someone make images tutorial for this  Cry

That is definitely toward the top of our list "to-do" Grin



Ah, I think I get it - thanks.
Just to check my understanding, am I correct in surmising that there's a bonanza of CLAMs heading out to those people who actually followed the recommendations?
Quote
"as a common measure of security and privacy, it is ALWAYS recommended that users use a different receive address for each payment they receive."
If so, good for them.
Yes and no.  If they left coins in those addresses, and still had them when CLAM did their blockchain dumps, then yes.  I use a unique receiving address for everything, but then bundle the coins into other addresses on occasion, so in my case I don't have coins in all the receiving addresses, and wouldn't get CLAMs for those (but I would get 4clam for each "bundle" address that still has coins).

I think that sounds pretty accurate phzi.  Those who use unique receive addresses, as recommended for basic privacy, are likely to get more CLAMS - unless they gather those outputs like you've mentioned, or send funds out, which gathers them in the background.

The good news is; the basic Client tends to attempt to make sends that are "small" and include less individual outputs. 
This is because the "larger" a transaction is the more it costs in transaction fees to send.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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May 28, 2014, 09:33:16 AM
 #133


Hi,

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I have listed your coin already. To provide the full information
on your coin for all users, please use the update function.


thanks

contact us, if you would like to support or advertise on crypto-coins-table.com


Stellar Lumens an easy introduction - https://stellarkitty.com
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May 28, 2014, 03:31:47 PM
 #134

Interesting.
I'd like to join in!
all the Btc address will receive coins?
I'll have a try! Roll Eyes

Indeed Smiley  All BTC addresses with a balance received CLAMS Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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May 28, 2014, 03:46:14 PM
 #135

Interresting, but should wait for the MAC OSX client Cry
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May 29, 2014, 03:02:42 AM
 #136

Interresting, but should wait for the MAC OSX client Cry

Have no fear, the OSX Client will be here very soon  Wink

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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May 29, 2014, 08:41:10 AM
 #137

Trying to do the math on the Proof-Of-Chain distribution.

CLAMS has a total POSSIBLE distribution of 15 Million.

I think that is not taking everything into consideration, however.

Actual Total Distribution = Total Possible - Lost BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Destroyed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Un-Redeemed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys


The question is, what does that mean?

I would expect the total distribution of CLAMS to be EXREMELY LESS than 15 Million at any given time.  In order to get to the full 15 Million possible distribution it would have to be one of if not THE world's leading crypto-currency.

Mining inflation normally destroys coins.
For every coin created by mining, there must be an equal in-flow of dollars of demand.  If there isn't then the value of the coin drops.

With CLAMS, there is no mining and only 1% Proof-Of-Stake.
So each unit of demand should only be counter-acted by new users who redeem their CLAMS.  And, new users who redeem their CLAMS are in and of themselves a source of demand.

If you add to that equation the kHashier.com multi-pool, which has been stacking BTC while waiting for the markets to adopt and have a stable market for CLAMS.....

I still think those who dump their CLAMS immediately after redeeming, or those who don't keep an eye on this one will deeply regret it.
I don't see a single negative when the economics are considered.

Just my two-cents.

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May 29, 2014, 08:45:41 AM
 #138

Trying to do the math on the Proof-Of-Chain distribution.
CLAMS has a total POSSIBLE distribution of 15 Million.
I think that is not taking everything into consideration, however.
Actual Total Distribution = Total Possible - Lost BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Destroyed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Un-Redeemed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys
The question is, what does that mean?
I would expect the total distribution of CLAMS to be EXREMELY LESS than 15 Million at any given time.  In order to get to the full 15 Million possible distribution it would have to be one of if not THE world's leading crypto-currency.
Mining inflation normally destroys coins.
For every coin created by mining, there must be an equal in-flow of dollars of demand.  If there isn't then the value of the coin drops.
With CLAMS, there is no mining and only 1% Proof-Of-Stake.
So each unit of demand should only be counter-acted by new users who redeem their CLAMS.  And, new users who redeem their CLAMS are in and of themselves a source of demand.
If you add to that equation the kHashier.com multi-pool, which has been stacking BTC while waiting for the markets to adopt and have a stable market for CLAMS.....
I still think those who dump their CLAMS immediately after redeeming, or those who don't keep an eye on this one will deeply regret it.
I don't see a single negative when the economics are considered.
Just my two-cents.

^^ We think all of those assumptions are reasonable.

We designed CLAMS with the idea that inflation cause by claiming CLAMS would correlate to and be counter-balanced with an increase in demand.

The idea was to create stability, instead of the extreme mining pump and dump inflation cycle.

You seem intelligent, and we are glad you agree Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
xploited
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May 29, 2014, 09:15:58 AM
 #139

I don't know much about economics, I'm more of a tech guy myself.. but I suspect because of the way clams were distributed the total clam distribution will trend with the total users. aka The more people that claim their Clams the more clams there will but the more demand there would be also which would possible lead to a constantly rare coin.

Should be very interesting to see this progress.

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May 29, 2014, 09:21:18 AM
 #140

Trying to do the math on the Proof-Of-Chain distribution.
CLAMS has a total POSSIBLE distribution of 15 Million.
I think that is not taking everything into consideration, however.
Actual Total Distribution = Total Possible - Lost BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Destroyed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys - Un-Redeemed BTC/LTC/DOGE privateKeys
The question is, what does that mean?
I would expect the total distribution of CLAMS to be EXREMELY LESS than 15 Million at any given time.  In order to get to the full 15 Million possible distribution it would have to be one of if not THE world's leading crypto-currency.
Mining inflation normally destroys coins.
For every coin created by mining, there must be an equal in-flow of dollars of demand.  If there isn't then the value of the coin drops.
With CLAMS, there is no mining and only 1% Proof-Of-Stake.
So each unit of demand should only be counter-acted by new users who redeem their CLAMS.  And, new users who redeem their CLAMS are in and of themselves a source of demand.
If you add to that equation the kHashier.com multi-pool, which has been stacking BTC while waiting for the markets to adopt and have a stable market for CLAMS.....
I still think those who dump their CLAMS immediately after redeeming, or those who don't keep an eye on this one will deeply regret it.
I don't see a single negative when the economics are considered.
Just my two-cents.
^^ We think all of those assumptions are reasonable.
We designed CLAMS with the idea that inflation cause by claiming CLAMS would correlate to and be counter-balanced with an increase in demand.
The idea was to create stability, instead of the extreme mining pump and dump inflation cycle.
You seem intelligent, and we are glad you agree Grin
I don't know much about economics, I'm more of a tech guy myself.. but I suspect because of the way clams were distributed the total clam distribution will trend with the total users. aka The more people that claim their Clams the more clams there will but the more demand there would be also which would possible lead to a constantly rare coin.
Should be very interesting to see this progress.

I think people will look back on these posts in some months and wonder how the hell they missed it.  Maybe not.  But with all the billion coin supply cryptos, it is rare to see one that makes economic and adoption sense.

More Users = More Coins.

So simple, yet it makes so much sense.

If this one ever catches fire, watch out world.

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