[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[baby222]

Woohoo!

Another Lottery Winner!

~26+ CLAMS!
http://khashier.com:2750/block/ccf399c57815c04ae8942770408947648d6627e8374b887dbeb87956678ce75a

That was me!

wow lucky dog

[dooglus]

I have ~.13 CLAM in an address with 8 inputs.  The most recent input has ~1000 confirmations.

Can anyone explain to me why these aren't staking?  Mainly curious.  Are the TXOUTs too small to stake for some reason?

There is a minimum balance for staking on some coins, I don't know about Clams.

But is your wallet encrypted? Staking won't occur if it has a password.

Not encrypted.  Anyone have a clue what's up here?  Is there a minimun balance required to stake?

There's no minimum balance, I don't think. There's a minimum time of 4 hours.

After that, you work out the "clam days" of your outputs. If you have 0.13 CLAM that hasn't moved for 3 days, you have 0.39 "clam days" (multiply value by age). I think that 0.39 is then rounded down to an integer, which might be your problem, since it will go to 0 for you. But suppose you had 13 CLAM that hadn't moved for 3 days.  That's 39 clam days. That gets multiplied by about 4000 (depending on the current difficulty). So you get 39*4000 = 156,000. Then every second your client hashes a bunch of stuff and gets an effectively random number between 0 and 4.3 billion. If the number is less than your 156,000 then you get to stake. 156,000 is about 27,500 times smaller than 4.3 billion, so you get to stake about once per 27,500 seconds (458 minutes, 7.5 hours).

So 13 CLAM that's 3 days old stakes every 7.5 hours or so. As it gets older, its chance of staking increases.

And I think your 0.13 CLAM needs to be 1/0.13 = 7.7 days old before it gets over 1 "clam day", and so even has a chance of staking, though I might be wrong on that point.

[phzi]

<snip>

Thanks, dooglus. I'll have to do a bit more code review tomorrow to get this figured out.

[SuperClam]

We would appreciate it if someone with experience parsing block chains would verify our work, however:

Super Rough Estimated Total Current Distribution of CLAMS:

~8,280 "Claimed" + Staked CLAMS = ~9,000 CLAMS.


The "Staked CLAMS" is about as rough of an estimate as exists.
It is late, and I will get an exact figure on "Staked CLAMS" tomorrow

[kbroadfoot]

We would appreciate it if someone with experience parsing block chains would verify our work, however:

Super Rough Estimated Total Current Distribution of CLAMS:

~8,280 "Claimed" + Staked CLAMS = ~9,000 CLAMS.

That some serious clam. If ( and I hope 'when' ) this CLAM thing takes off people will start digging for more clams.... until then this is one of the most rare coins in history....

I see the network weight increasing.... more people must be staking..
 Me? Up to about 5.2 CLAM.

[bitaxed]

Hi guys, what is the latest wallet version? 0.8.4?
The link in the first page is not working (at least for me).

[istvandv]

Hi guys, what is the latest wallet version? 0.8.4?
The link in the first page is not working (at least for me).

just tried and link is working for me
latest version is 1.4.2

try here:
https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/releases

[Zer0Sum]

We would appreciate it if someone with experience parsing block chains would verify our work, however:

Super Rough Estimated Total Current Distribution of CLAMS:

~8,280 "Claimed" + Staked CLAMS = ~9,000 CLAMS.


The "Staked CLAMS" is about as rough of an estimate as exists.
It is late, and I will get an exact figure on "Staked CLAMS" tomorrow

This actually blows my mind... so much potential.

[undergroundgeek]

We were hoping a community member would step up and create a block explorer for CLAMS - the explorer @ http://www.kHashier.com:2750/ was not intended to be a permanent solution.  Getting it back up now.

Thanks for getting it back up, but now it's down again.

I guess I'll live for the moment.

Concerning optimum stake output size, this is ever changing as the network weight changes.
I don't believe anyone has done the math as of yet, though the distribution amount of ~4.6 CLAMS seems to stake quite well.

I stupidly moved all wonderfully aged 27 clams over the exchange initially, so now I'm playing catchup, which is difficult if not impossible? After 3 days (even though it continually said 10 hours and then 3 hours near the end for a whole day) it *finally* staked, and now after staked claim is matured it says 29 minutes to stake, but it's been that way for over a day now?? So the lottery incentive is kinda lost for me..

[kbroadfoot]

We were hoping a community member would step up and create a block explorer for CLAMS - the explorer @ http://www.kHashier.com:2750/ was not intended to be a permanent solution.  Getting it back up now.

Thanks for getting it back up, but now it's down again.

I guess I'll live for the moment.

Concerning optimum stake output size, this is ever changing as the network weight changes.
I don't believe anyone has done the math as of yet, though the distribution amount of ~4.6 CLAMS seems to stake quite well.

I stupidly moved all wonderfully aged 27 clams over the exchange initially, so now I'm playing catchup, which is difficult if not impossible? After 3 days (even though it continually said 10 hours and then 3 hours near the end for a whole day) it *finally* staked, and now after staked claim is matured it says 29 minutes to stake, but it's been that way for over a day now?? So the lottery incentive is kinda lost for me..

Hang in there... they stake eventually... don't keep them on the exchange unless you want to sell.... they won't stake over there...

[dooglus]

don't keep them on the exchange unless you want to sell.... they won't stake over there...

Well, they will stake over there, but the exchange will probably take the profit for themselves...

You could imagine an exchange which shared its profits from staking customer coins with the customers to give them a competitive advantage - "sell your clams on our exchange and we'll share their staking profits with you until they sell".

[dooglus]

I stupidly moved all wonderfully aged 27 clams over the exchange initially, so now I'm playing catchup

I've been thinking about this.

If I move coins from one wallet to another, I have to wait 510 blocks until they will start staking again. I also have to wait 510 blocks after they last staked before I can move them, so there will be a minimum of 1020 blocks between staking in one wallet and staking in the next.

It looks to me like I could hard-code the staking routine so that the output(s) of the staking transaction are different than the inputs - then my coins would move at the same time as they stake, saving me 510 blocks of waiting time.

Questions:

1) would that work from a technical point of view?

2) if so, would such behaviour be frowned upon from a human point of view?

[maccd123]

Just Do It Doogie!

[Hippie Tech]

PoS + exchanges who keep the customer's PoS rewards = crypto central banks

It is very ecouraging to see how most of us are content to simply hold onto our CLAMs, and should serve as a good indicator of how evenly distributed the air drop really was.

Sell Orders Total: 940.57584004 CLAM

[dooglus]

Just Do It Doogie!

I just did it.

It just didn't work:

ERROR: CheckBlock() : bad proof-of-stake block signature
ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED
ERROR: CheckStake() : ProcessBlock, block not accepted

I think CBlock::CheckBlockSignature() in main.cpp didn't like it.

[kbroadfoot]

don't keep them on the exchange unless you want to sell.... they won't stake over there...

Well, they will stake over there, but the exchange will probably take the profit for themselves...

You could imagine an exchange which shared its profits from staking customer coins with the customers to give them a competitive advantage - "sell your clams on our exchange and we'll share their staking profits with you until they sell".

C-CEX ( not my favorite for sure BUT.... ) actually does split the stake up amongst ENRG coin holders when ENRG stakes...
The only ones that do as far as I know...

[djnocide]

don't keep them on the exchange unless you want to sell.... they won't stake over there...

Well, they will stake over there, but the exchange will probably take the profit for themselves...

You could imagine an exchange which shared its profits from staking customer coins with the customers to give them a competitive advantage - "sell your clams on our exchange and we'll share their staking profits with you until they sell".

C-CEX ( not my favorite for sure BUT.... ) actually does split the stake up amongst ENRG coin holders when ENRG stakes...
The only ones that do as far as I know...

kingcoiny does it too with HC

[dooglus]

I was wondering whether it's possible to find out whether a particular Bitcoin address has any CLAMS associated with it without having to have access to the private key.

The helpful folks on the #clams IRC channel told me it is - you can convert from Bitcoin address to CLAMS address without needing the private key.

Here's one way of doing it, using the "python-bitcoinlib" library:

$ git clone https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib.git
Cloning into 'python-bitcoinlib'...
remote: Reusing existing pack: 913, done.       
remote: Total 913 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0)       
Receiving objects: 100% (913/913), 300.69 KiB | 145.00 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (487/487), done.
Checking connectivity... done.

$ cd python-bitcoinlib/

$ python
Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 22:59:56)
[GCC 4.8.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import bitcoin.base58
>>> def btc2clam(addr): return bitcoin.base58.CBase58Data(bitcoin.base58.decode(addr)[1:-4], 0x89).__str__()
...
>>> print btc2clam('14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86')
xC6ktEBwaTk8G27wCWwQjGmDuK14SZPvJa
>>>

[xploited]

I was wondering whether it's possible to find out whether a particular Bitcoin address has any CLAMS associated with it without having to have access to the private key.

The helpful folks on the #clams IRC channel told me it is - you can convert from Bitcoin address to CLAMS address without needing the private key.

Here's one way of doing it, using the "python-bitcoinlib" library:

$ git clone https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib.git
Cloning into 'python-bitcoinlib'...
remote: Reusing existing pack: 913, done.       
remote: Total 913 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0)       
Receiving objects: 100% (913/913), 300.69 KiB | 145.00 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (487/487), done.
Checking connectivity... done.

$ cd python-bitcoinlib/

$ python
Python 2.7.6 (default, Mar 22 2014, 22:59:56)
[GCC 4.8.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import bitcoin.base58
>>> def btc2clam(addr): return bitcoin.base58.CBase58Data(bitcoin.base58.decode(addr)[1:-4], 0x89).__str__()
...
>>> print btc2clam('14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86')
xC6ktEBwaTk8G27wCWwQjGmDuK14SZPvJa
>>>

Thats awesome! Not much of a python user but you got to love how simple it is.

Updating for any one wondering about DogeCoin or Litecoin which is also possible with 3 simple changes to the pubkey address in base58.py

For DogeCoin:
  Dec:  127
  Hex:   \x7f 

For LiteCoin:
  Dec:  48
  Hex:  \x30

The Decmial version of the pubkey address goes in the follow line: 

https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib/blob/master/bitcoin/base58.py#L106

The hex goes in the 2 following lines:

https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib/blob/master/bitcoin/base58.py#L40
https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinlib/blob/master/bitcoin/base58.py#L106

Once you make those changes the rest goes exactly like dooglus describes

[Zer0Sum]

I stupidly moved all wonderfully aged 27 clams over the exchange initially, so now I'm playing catchup

I've been thinking about this.

If I move coins from one wallet to another, I have to wait 510 blocks until they will start staking again. I also have to wait 510 blocks after they last staked before I can move them, so there will be a minimum of 1020 blocks between staking in one wallet and staking in the next.

It looks to me like I could hard-code the staking routine so that the output(s) of the staking transaction are different than the inputs - then my coins would move at the same time as they stake, saving me 510 blocks of waiting time.

Questions:

1) would that work from a technical point of view?

2) if so, would such behaviour be frowned upon from a human point of view?

This is a KEY problem with all staking coins... and kills their liquidity.

In the Real World...
When I buy or transfer Stock Certificates to a broker...
I maintain legal ownership of the stock and receive all dividends.

But in the Crypto World...
Is deliberately structured so that scammers + exchanges can rip off ordinary people...
Wallets need to be modified with a "escrow segregated" category...
So exchanges only act as escrow, but do not actually own the coins...
This would also eliminate that massive security problems like VRC.

As for stakes...
I got about 0.8 is stakes in 3 days on 50 clams = 600-700% interest compounded...
This may actually be sustainable as more and more people "discover" clams over time...
And if the hash rate goes up 10 fold or 100 fold, etc.

Last night I got a super-stake of 275 clams. Damn.