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 Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1031614 times) This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
SuperClam
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CLAM Developer

 August 15, 2014, 06:32:07 AM

even without the lottery win with ~500 stakes a day thats 50 clams a day, awesome
im currently only at 1 stake a day and still waiting for that lottery so i can increase my daily number of stakes
That's the downside with this form of PoS... your chance of winning grows exponentially as you stake and your balance grows, thus giving you more staking power. The more you win, the more you CAN win.

I don't agree, entirely.
Do more CLAMS == more stakes? Yes, same as plain-ole' Proof-Of-Stake.

The primary difference, imho, is that with Proof-Of-Pearl this effect is less significant than with conventional Proof-Of-Stake.

With conventional proof-of-stake, not only does more more coins = more stakes (and additional compound interest); but the amount of the reward itself is based on the size of the pile.

At least with proof-of-pearl the reward per block is not greater for those with more coins.

Regardless, fairness is a primary concept for CLAMS.
C. L. A(equitas). M.

There are some great ideas being bandied about to level the playing field even more-so, while still preserving what is justifiably a greater return for a greater investment.

More importantly, we are always listening to ideas; stop by #clams @ irc

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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dooglus
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 August 15, 2014, 07:08:25 AM

I recently made a huge mistake with my CLAM wallet which resulted in ~70% of my old CLAM outputs getting merged together into large new outputs.

So my ability to stake has been hugely reduced.

Oops!

 Just-Dice ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ Play or Invest ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ 1% House Edge
Thirdspace
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The Future of Stock Trading on The Blockchain

 August 15, 2014, 10:06:44 PM

thanks @SuperClam @tryphe @dooglus for answering my questions promptly
and as I understand it if we do it via wallet.dat, we need to do the --salvagewallet option
so if we do the importprivkey [btcprivkey] on the CLAM client, do we need to do something else
what should I expect to happen? I haven't downloaded the client, so I cannot try it myself

It's possible to convert from BTC addresses to CLAM addresses (and back again) without knowing the private keys. I posted a short Python script which does exactly that not long ago. See this post:
It's a small Python script that takes any number of BTC, LTC, DOGE, and CLAM addresses and gives links to the corresponding blockchain explorer pages for the equivalent BTC, LTC, DOGE, and CLAM addresses.
I have no way to try that script out but isnt doing a search on khashier give me the same result?
btw I couldn't open khashier blockchain for some unknown reason occasionally, anyone experiencing it too?
anyway, what I do was:
go to http://khashier.com:2750/ and enter my btc address there
on the result page I clicked on the first link with btc address on it
then it brings up another page with a CLAM balance and a link to its CLAM address
am I wrong assuming this CLAM address corresponding to my btc priv key?

Then nothing staked until 17:21. So I guess about 20 per hour, or around 500 per day. I have a feeling that the screenshot shows an unusually good hour though, so maybe it's half that. But with the lotto wins as well I'm sure the average is higher.
woooowww 500/day is equal min 50 CLAMs
and sorry for your recent mishap, but that would be just a minor setback
just need to split them up and wait another 8 hours to mature, right?

Yes. Your BTC privkey *is* your CLAM privkey; they are the same thing. Just export it from your bitcoin wallet and import it into the CLAM wallet.
meaning it is the only way to claim ownership of my CLAM address and not the actual priv key of that CLAM address, right?
because if I were to dumpprivkey that CLAM addr, the priv key would be completely different from the btc priv key I entered, right?
ok this is becoming too long for a simple post... I will try to join the irc see if I can learn more over there

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dooglus
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 August 15, 2014, 11:03:06 PM

if we do the importprivkey [btcprivkey] on the CLAM client, do we need to do something else
what should I expect to happen?

Depending on whether you tell it to rescan or not, it will add the private key, and either rescan (taking a few minutes) or not.

If you have several to add, you should tell it not to rescan on all but the last import, to save time.

Then you'll see the CLAMs in your wallet

I have no way to try that script out but isnt doing a search on khashier give me the same result?
btw I couldn't open khashier blockchain for some unknown reason occasionally, anyone experiencing it too?
anyway, what I do was:
go to http://khashier.com:2750/ and enter my btc address there
on the result page I clicked on the first link with btc address on it
then it brings up another page with a CLAM balance and a link to its CLAM address
am I wrong assuming this CLAM address corresponding to my btc priv key?

I never tried giving khashier a BTC address, so I'm not sure what it does with them.

and sorry for your recent mishap, but that would be just a minor setback
just need to split them up and wait another 8 hours to mature, right?

meaning it is the only way to claim ownership of my CLAM address and not the actual priv key of that CLAM address, right?
because if I were to dumpprivkey that CLAM addr, the priv key would be completely different from the btc priv key I entered, right?

No, your CLAM privkey is the same as your BTC privkey. The public keys are the same too. The addresses are only different because of the byte added at the start to make BTC addresses start with a '1' and CLAM addresses with an 'x'.

If you dumpprivkey you'll get the same from the BTC wallet as from the CLAM one if you use addresses which correspond to each other.

 Just-Dice ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ Play or Invest ██                        ██████████                ██████████████████        ██████████████████████████  ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████    ██████████████████████            ██████████████                    ██████ 1% House Edge
seedtrue
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 August 16, 2014, 07:46:49 AM

Is nobody else concerned with the price these days? Noticed someone cleared out a bunch of the buy orders.

I think the problem is not many people know about clams, or they think it is the same coin as the defunct coin that shares the name. This is why I was pushing for more exchanges. If nothing else it will be a form of advertising. I tried to get it added to c-cex voting list, but the other clams is still on there so it did not work out.
SuperClam
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CLAM Developer

 August 16, 2014, 08:32:10 AM

Is nobody else concerned with the price these days? Noticed someone cleared out a bunch of the buy orders.
I think the problem is not many people know about clams, or they think it is the same coin as the defunct coin that shares the name. This is why I was pushing for more exchanges. If nothing else it will be a form of advertising. I tried to get it added to c-cex voting list, but the other clams is still on there so it did not work out.

The 'getCLAMS' people are an unfortunate situation.

They launched after us, and it appears they didn't even bother doing a cursory check to see if the name was taken.
At least the ticker symbol is different.

Alas, it is a free world.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
Zer0Sum
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Activity: 1176

 August 17, 2014, 09:04:58 PM

Is nobody else concerned with the price these days? Noticed someone cleared out a bunch of the buy orders.
I think the problem is not many people know about clams, or they think it is the same coin as the defunct coin that shares the name. This is why I was pushing for more exchanges. If nothing else it will be a form of advertising. I tried to get it added to c-cex voting list, but the other clams is still on there so it did not work out.

The 'getCLAMS' people are an unfortunate situation.

They launched after us, and it appears they didn't even bother doing a cursory check to see if the name was taken.
At least the ticker symbol is different.

Alas, it is a free world.

What happened to the Clam Shell?

A 50% decline even on tiny volume should have rolled out the Clam Shell...
Meaning 100 or 200 size support bids just below the market... like we've seen previously.

In fact, the Clam Shell should not be predictable...
It should occasionally sweep the Order Book on the up side for no reason other than flex buying muscle.

As far as I understand...
Clam Shell buying is also the only way Pool Participants get paid....
And the Pool is not doing well because the payouts are a fraction of any other scrypt pool.
SuperClam
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CLAM Developer

 August 18, 2014, 12:32:35 AM

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding as to how the CLAM Shell actually functions.

What happened to the Clam Shell?
A 50% decline even on tiny volume should have rolled out the Clam Shell...
Meaning 100 or 200 size support bids just below the market... like we've seen previously.

The CLAM Shell doesn't "roll out".
It simply exists in the order book as buy orders.

In fact, the Clam Shell should not be predictable...
It should occasionally sweep the Order Book on the up side for no reason other than flex buying muscle.

There are no upward pushing, "moving" buy orders.
This would cause CLAMS to be purchased at above market price...
For? A pump? Not the purpose.

Clam Shell buying is also the only way Pool Participants get paid....

Not true.  The CLAM Shell is made up of exactly 25% (deposit amount * 0.25) of the pool's proceeds.

I think that would have likely been a superior idea, and was indeed the "original" idea -> why didn't we do it that way?

And the Pool is not doing well because the payouts are a fraction of any other scrypt pool.

^ This.  It is difficult enough maintaining hash @ the pool.
kHashier.com has the longest term payout system in existence.
It makes p2pool look like it was designed for instant gratification - and yet even p2pool receives complaints about the slow build up of payouts.

Crypto is a short-term mind-set community.
That is understandable; we get it.
However, the CLAMS multi-pool will NOT perform well for short-term mining or pool hopping.
It was designed to not perform well over the short-term.

Synopsis:
• The pool sells the block reward from mining for BTC, like any other multi-pool.
• The resulting BTC, minus fees is accrued at Poloniex in order to purchase CLAMS.
• 25% of arriving BTC is immediately placed into a Buy order at 75% of the highest current significant buy order.
• If the price goes up such that the buy order falls to less than 50% of the highest current significant buy order, it is canceled and placed again at 75% of the highest current significant buy order.
• If one of the buy orders is sold into, the resulting purchased CLAMS are periodically withdrawn and paid out to miners during the normal payout cycle.
• The remaining 75% of BTC arriving at Poloniex is used to place purchases of CLAMS that are periodically withdrawn and make up the normal payout cycle.
• All payouts, (25%)CLAM Shell or (75%)regular, are apportioned to miners in CLAMS based on their accrued percentage.
• This includes our fee; which we take in CLAMS.

If you have any additional questions, I am happy to answer them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
garthkiser
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A vagabond inspired by blockchains, and CLAMs!

 August 18, 2014, 03:13:32 AM

CLAMS State of the Chain

-Total number of public keys(BTC,LTC,DOGE) seen from initial distribution: 9,265
-Amount claimed from initial distribution: 42,670
-Lottery winnings: 12,534
-Staked earnings: 4021
-Total CLAMS in circulation: 59,272
-Approx. Market Cap: \$30,000 USD

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE in early 2014 has CLAMS.
SuperClam
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CLAM Developer

 August 18, 2014, 03:52:28 AM

CLAMS State of the Chain
-Total number of public keys(BTC,LTC,DOGE) seen from initial distribution: 9,265
-Amount claimed from initial distribution: 42,670
-Lottery winnings: 12,534
-Staked earnings: 4021
-Total CLAMS in circulation: 59,272
-Approx. Market Cap: \$30,000 USD

Careful with such math.

Less than 3 BTC of buys and the price would be 0.01 and the marketcap just under:
\$300,000

Still, it is helpful to visualize

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
Zer0Sum
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Activity: 1176

 August 19, 2014, 01:20:22 AM

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding as to how the CLAM Shell actually functions.

What happened to the Clam Shell?
A 50% decline even on tiny volume should have rolled out the Clam Shell...
Meaning 100 or 200 size support bids just below the market... like we've seen previously.

The CLAM Shell doesn't "roll out".
It simply exists in the order book as buy orders.

In fact, the Clam Shell should not be predictable...
It should occasionally sweep the Order Book on the up side for no reason other than flex buying muscle.

There are no upward pushing, "moving" buy orders.
This would cause CLAMS to be purchased at above market price...
For? A pump? Not the purpose.

Clam Shell buying is also the only way Pool Participants get paid....

Not true.  The CLAM Shell is made up of exactly 25% (deposit amount * 0.25) of the pool's proceeds.

I think that would have likely been a superior idea, and was indeed the "original" idea -> why didn't we do it that way?

And the Pool is not doing well because the payouts are a fraction of any other scrypt pool.

^ This.  It is difficult enough maintaining hash @ the pool.
kHashier.com has the longest term payout system in existence.
It makes p2pool look like it was designed for instant gratification - and yet even p2pool receives complaints about the slow build up of payouts.

Crypto is a short-term mind-set community.
That is understandable; we get it.
However, the CLAMS multi-pool will NOT perform well for short-term mining or pool hopping.
It was designed to not perform well over the short-term.

Synopsis:
• The pool sells the block reward from mining for BTC, like any other multi-pool.
• The resulting BTC, minus fees is accrued at Poloniex in order to purchase CLAMS.
• 25% of arriving BTC is immediately placed into a Buy order at 75% of the highest current significant buy order.
• If the price goes up such that the buy order falls to less than 50% of the highest current significant buy order, it is canceled and placed again at 75% of the highest current significant buy order.
• If one of the buy orders is sold into, the resulting purchased CLAMS are periodically withdrawn and paid out to miners during the normal payout cycle.
• The remaining 75% of BTC arriving at Poloniex is used to place purchases of CLAMS that are periodically withdrawn and make up the normal payout cycle.
• All payouts, (25%)CLAM Shell or (75%)regular, are apportioned to miners in CLAMS based on their accrued percentage.
• This includes our fee; which we take in CLAMS.

If you have any additional questions, I am happy to answer them.

I very much appreciate your detailed response

I'm a Pro Trader on the NYSE for 20 years (millions of trades)...
And I'm #3 with about 8% on your Payouts Rankings (view it as a donation)...
Plus I have a mathematical interest in how a multipool can best support a coin's price.

Corporations often set aside billions of \$\$\$ for share buybacks...
With the whole point = boost the share price by retiring shares and shrinking the float...
No one on Wall Street views this as a "pump"...
Because the #1 job of a CEO is to increase the share price for investors...
That's the whole point of capital markets... and Polo is a capital market.

Anyway, a fixed-in-cement algo like yours is very sub-optimal for any purpose...
It really should be a discretionary, creative program managed by an experienced trader.
SuperClam
Hero Member

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Activity: 784

CLAM Developer

 August 19, 2014, 06:11:08 AM

We have another bounty for an enterprising CLAM out there!

Bounty:
75 CLAMS.

Title:
Create or re-purpose an open source Reddit or Twitter CLAMS tip bot.

Requirements:
• Functions as a full-service tip bot.
• Able to target certain keywords, boards, hashtags, etc. to spread the CLAM gospel.

Hope we can get this finished; I think it would be great for the CLAMS community

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
fireblond
Jr. Member

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Activity: 30

 August 20, 2014, 06:58:01 PM

We have another bounty for an enterprising CLAM out there!

Bounty:
Starts at 50 CLAMS.

Title:
Create or re-purpose an open source Reddit or Twitter CLAMS tip bot.

Requirements:
• Functions as a full-service tip bot.
• Able to target certain keywords, boards, hashtags, etc. to spread the CLAM gospel.

Hope we can get this finished; I think it would be great for the CLAMS community
Hey, I'm no expert coder But I found something useful that will help!
Here is the source for the tippercoin: https://github.com/BitcoinMafia/twittercoin
You can check that!
KriszDev
Sr. Member

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Activity: 364

 August 20, 2014, 07:05:41 PM

Will the --salwagewallet remove my DOGEs from my wallet?
xploited
Sr. Member

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Activity: 302

CLAM Dev

 August 20, 2014, 07:14:02 PM

Will the --salwagewallet remove my DOGEs from my wallet?

It wouldn't, no, it would remove all the info aka settings/tx data etc but your DOGE's private keys would remain.

The proper way to import a wallet now is directly thought the UI in 1.4.2.2. Doing it this way ensure's all the invalid DOGE data in the wallet.dat is removed.

--salvagewallet is more destructive and should only be used in the normal cases where you would want to use salvagewallet.

KriszDev
Sr. Member

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Activity: 364

 August 20, 2014, 07:16:35 PM

Will the --salwagewallet remove my DOGEs from my wallet?

It wouldn't, no, it would remove all the info aka settings/tx data etc but your DOGE's private keys would remain.

The proper way to import a wallet now is directly thought the UI in 1.4.2.2. Doing it this way ensure's all the invalid DOGE data in the wallet.dat is removed.

--salvagewallet is more destructive and should only be used in the normal cases where you would want to use salvagewallet.

So I"will not lose any DOGE? I wanna be sure before i do it.
almightyruler
Legendary

Offline

Activity: 1400

 August 20, 2014, 07:30:34 PM

Will the --salwagewallet remove my DOGEs from my wallet?

It wouldn't, no, it would remove all the info aka settings/tx data etc but your DOGE's private keys would remain.

The proper way to import a wallet now is directly thought the UI in 1.4.2.2. Doing it this way ensure's all the invalid DOGE data in the wallet.dat is removed.

--salvagewallet is more destructive and should only be used in the normal cases where you would want to use salvagewallet.

So I"will not lose any DOGE? I wanna be sure before i do it.

It will change the structure of your wallet.dat, so make sure you use a copy, rather than your 'original'

As far as changing your actual DOGE balance, no, it will not affect that, because CLAMS is a separate network.
xploited
Sr. Member

Offline

Activity: 302

CLAM Dev

 August 20, 2014, 07:40:14 PM

Will the --salwagewallet remove my DOGEs from my wallet?

It wouldn't, no, it would remove all the info aka settings/tx data etc but your DOGE's private keys would remain.

The proper way to import a wallet now is directly thought the UI in 1.4.2.2. Doing it this way ensure's all the invalid DOGE data in the wallet.dat is removed.

--salvagewallet is more destructive and should only be used in the normal cases where you would want to use salvagewallet.

So I"will not lose any DOGE? I wanna be sure before i do it.

You 100% will not lose any of your DOGE.

I do suggest making a backup of your original DOGE. There have been no reports of wallet.dat files being corrupted and there have been a lot of imports at this point (at least 9300+ addresses). The way the import is done now lowers that risk significantly also as the wallet you import is left untouched.. but I always suggest backing up.

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CLAM Dev

 August 20, 2014, 07:42:35 PM

Will the --salwagewallet remove my DOGEs from my wallet?

It wouldn't, no, it would remove all the info aka settings/tx data etc but your DOGE's private keys would remain.

The proper way to import a wallet now is directly thought the UI in 1.4.2.2. Doing it this way ensure's all the invalid DOGE data in the wallet.dat is removed.

--salvagewallet is more destructive and should only be used in the normal cases where you would want to use salvagewallet.

So I"will not lose any DOGE? I wanna be sure before i do it.

It will change the structure of your wallet.dat, so make sure you use a copy, rather than your 'original'

As far as changing your actual DOGE balance, no, it will not affect that, because CLAMS is a separate network.

The new importwallet UI will not actually change the structure of the original wallet.dat. Its opened temporarily in memory, the keys are copied into the clams wallet and then its closed. The previous method was destructive, this however is not.

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 August 20, 2014, 07:49:23 PM

can anyone help me how to claim clam if i'm using multibit wallet?