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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 964701 times)
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SuperClam
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August 21, 2014, 11:35:40 PM
 #981

Is there a way to check a Bitcoin address to see if it has been sent CLAMS without scanning the wallet? I checked the first post but didn't see anything.
Well there's xploited's method above ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg8460891#msg8460891 ) or see this post:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg8254418;topicseen#msg8254418

I hate to repeat myself, but I think that this is very important.

The last thing we want is a user who HAS Clams waiting for them to think that they do NOT HAVE them.



If you don't understand "change" addresses, please be aware that using the various methods listed to 'check' may give you a false negative on claiming CLAMS. 

It is possible, and even likely, that there may be CLAMS waiting for you in a "change" address.

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August 22, 2014, 08:42:20 AM
 #982

I hate to repeat myself, but I think that this is very important.

The last thing we want is a user who HAS Clams waiting for them to think that they do NOT HAVE them.



If you don't understand "change" addresses, please be aware that using the various methods listed to 'check' may give you a false negative on claiming CLAMS. 

It is possible, and even likely, that there may be CLAMS waiting for you in a "change" address.

Indeed. There's a difference to checking a single "address" and checking a "wallet". Maybe there should be information in the first post regarding each and the distinction between them?
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August 22, 2014, 09:38:34 AM
 #983

i suppose because of fear in general of importing other wallets (no matter how much we try to show that it is completely safe in CLAMS) they would like to check first before diving in

would running "listreceivedbyaddress 0 true" in the debug console printout all the addresses in the wallet including change addresses? or is there a better command

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August 22, 2014, 05:21:51 PM
 #984

i suppose because of fear in general of importing other wallets (no matter how much we try to show that it is completely safe in CLAMS) they would like to check first before diving in

would running "listreceivedbyaddress 0 true" in the debug console printout all the addresses in the wallet including change addresses? or is there a better command

That's a great idea.

The '0' is the number of confirmations needed to list an address - so if we can find out how many blocks there have been since the CLAM snapshot of the Bitcoin blockchain was taken, that's the number we need to put there. And the 'true' means to list addresses that never received any coins, so we don't want that.

Checking blockchain.info I see that block 298520 has a timestamp of 2014-05-01 01:02:33, which I'm guessing is around the time the snapshot was taken - but the CLAM developers should be able to give us the exact block number for all three snapshots.

Then at a Linux shell prompt I can run:

Code:
bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress $(($(bitcoind getblockcount) - 298520)) | grep address

to get a list of all the addresses which were funded on or before that block number and so should have CLAMs (if the funding wasn't just dust)

[ Edit: some of the addresses it lists may have had a balance before the snapshot, but been empty at the time of the snapshot and so won't have any CLAMs to dig; it would be nice if I could improve my script to only show addresses which had a "balance" (I hope lukejr doesn't see this) at a certain block number, but I don't see a way of doing that; I was excited when I converted the list of addresses in my wallet into CLAM addresses, then used 'validateaddress' in the clam wallet only to find that none of them had been imported - but it turns out all the listed addresses were empty at the dump date, because my whole wallet was empty at the time - apparently all my coins were invested on a dodgy dice site ]

Or, better, I can run:

Code:
bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress $(($(bitcoind getblockcount) - 298520)) | grep -E '^ *"(address|amount)"' | awk '{print $3}' | while read address; do read amount; echo $amount $address; done | sort -n

to get the same list, but with the amount received, sorted in order of amount received:

Code:
0.00000001, "1Mi3enEMy3GSAYSoifs9L8jZ2c4A2EZ7co",
0.00000008, "1Pqn9rAJup6cWzd6JrhJVPCmBTqVLN1y3W",
0.00005669, "1JXDq76gJirgk5v2djmdo5DjtncrGXw4Tm",
...
3538.96307960, "1DodGYjF5LFoKg186jANZV9U8znXjagSzS",
4673.25920093, "1PwncQYDQDUAhrr2Ag5cTj3QNurMc3kWJu",
14700.00000000, "1PwgycpEn4G2Tb8wVNgMrhACukXLfvYsRf",
562890.27306771, "14Fu4z4EBmX8Lq7H3whG9bUJFLAdBDEevY",

If you don't have a Linux shell prompt, you can use the console in bitcoin-qt:

Run 'getblockcount' to get the current block number
Subtract 298520 from it, to get the depth of the CLAM snapshot (replace 298520 with the real number if it becomes known)
Run 'listreceivedbyaddress NNNN' where NNNN is the result of the above subtraction

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August 23, 2014, 09:52:20 AM
 #985

Network weight has been crazy lately huh?
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August 23, 2014, 04:04:16 PM
 #986

Network weight has been crazy lately huh?

Yes. I'm wondering if the guy who dug up DOGE-CLAMs for 4 days solid a while ago recently remembered his wallet, and has stated letting it stake.

The difficulty is around 10 times harder than usual, and has been for 3 days now.

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August 23, 2014, 09:32:36 PM
 #987

In the last 4 days I've been trying to download the client from Mega,
but somehow even at 1% it's giving me "temporary error" whatever that is...
though it keeps progressing very slowly but always giving me constant errors
do I need to register first to be able to download it smoothly without problem?

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August 24, 2014, 12:35:41 AM
 #988

In the last 4 days I've been trying to download the client from Mega,
but somehow even at 1% it's giving me "temporary error" whatever that is...
though it keeps progressing very slowly but always giving me constant errors
do I need to register first to be able to download it smoothly without problem?

Shouldn't be a problem... Just downloaded fine.

I often see problems like yours on hard drives with file system errors... Start an elevated cmd.exe command prompt, type:
chkdsk c: /f /v /x /r

Restart your computer and wait 2 to 5 hours... Good luck!


PS: @clam: THANK you for the GUI import function. Testing next XD

twitter.com/devnullius

I support #EmpoEX https://empoex.com | @EmpoEX twitter | @devnullius
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August 24, 2014, 06:12:37 PM
 #989

Most of the time the difficulty is at its minimum, meaning that every 1 CLAM-day output has a 1-in-a-million chance of staking each second.

Currently the difficulty is 20 times higher than the minimum, meaning that each output is 20 times less likely to stake in any given time period.

What's the minimum difficulty that you're mentioning?
In other words, the network difficulty is currently around 213000. How many times the minimum difficulty is that ?
The client tells me I can expect a stake in 3 days, but it's not clear how that interacts with the randomness.

Thanks




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August 24, 2014, 06:31:12 PM
 #990

Most of the time the difficulty is at its minimum, meaning that every 1 CLAM-day output has a 1-in-a-million chance of staking each second.

Currently the difficulty is 20 times higher than the minimum, meaning that each output is 20 times less likely to stake in any given time period.

What's the minimum difficulty that you're mentioning?
In other words, the network difficulty is currently around 213000. How many times the minimum difficulty is that ?
The client tells me I can expect a stake in 3 days, but it's not clear how that interacts with the randomness.

Thanks



9-10k weight was common for a long time. It is starting to look like those days are long gone Sad
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August 24, 2014, 06:31:17 PM
 #991

I imported my DOGE wallet and there is no CLAMs.

You need have DOGE when clam was launced.

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August 24, 2014, 07:42:22 PM
 #992

Most of the time the difficulty is at its minimum, meaning that every 1 CLAM-day output has a 1-in-a-million chance of staking each second.

Currently the difficulty is 20 times higher than the minimum, meaning that each output is 20 times less likely to stake in any given time period.

What's the minimum difficulty that you're mentioning?
In other words, the network difficulty is currently around 213000. How many times the minimum difficulty is that ?
The client tells me I can expect a stake in 3 days, but it's not clear how that interacts with the randomness.

Thanks


The network weight isn't the difficulty though. If you go into the client Debug console and type "getstakinginfo" that will tell you what the current difficulty is. The network weight is the sum of the weights of all the coins available to stake. Current difficulty is 0.00284345 (which is used just as in traditional POW mining). IIRC minimum difficulty is 0.0001.
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August 24, 2014, 07:56:30 PM
 #993

Is this correct, that this coin is POS only ? No way to mine it ?
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August 24, 2014, 08:06:59 PM
 #994

Is this correct, that this coin is POS only ? No way to mine it ?

There's a pool that pays out in CLAMs, although those are bought with 75% of the mining proceeds. The other 25% is used as the CLAM Shell - To add buy support below market value.
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August 24, 2014, 11:13:43 PM
 #995

What's the minimum difficulty that you're mentioning?

When very little weight is staking, the difficulty decreases, to make it easier for people to stake.

The lowest it goes is 1/4096 = 0.00024414

Currently it's around:

0.00224045
0.00240555
0.00264976
0.00261897
0.00279432
0.00314596

(those were the difficulties after 6 recent blocks).

That's about 10 times higher than the minimum of 1/4096.

In other words, the network difficulty is currently around 213000. How many times the minimum difficulty is that ?

Where do you see that number?

I see a number around 0.002:

$ clamd getdifficulty
{
    "proof-of-work" : 0.00024876,
    "proof-of-stake" : 0.00275561,
    "search-interval" : 1
}

The client tells me I can expect a stake in 3 days, but it's not clear how that interacts with the randomness.

The client has been quite inaccurate about expected staking times. I'm not sure whether it is better now or not.

The way the randomness works is that each second, each of your coin outputs gets hashed with the current time (in seconds). If that hash is lower than the current target per CLAM-day (which is a function of the current difficulty) multiplied by the weight of the output (which is its value times its age) then it gets to stake.

In effect you are entering a lottery every second, with a tiny chance of winning each time. As you keep failing to win, your output gets older, which gives it more weight, and so a better chance of winning. But at the same time everyone else is doing the same, and the faster they stake, the higher the difficulty increases, making the lottery harder to win.

Edit: about half an hour after posting this, the difficulty fell dramatically. Now it's relatively easy to stake again:

$ clamd getdifficulty
{
    "proof-of-work" : 0.00024876,
    "proof-of-stake" : 0.00054170,
    "search-interval" : 1
}

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August 25, 2014, 07:51:03 AM
 #996

Ah, it seems I was confusing difficulty and network weight. I get 0.002 like numbers from getstakinginfo too, and I was giving the network weight as what I thought was a synonym for difficulty.

And it seems the random factor is rather large - my 4.6 block made two 0.1 stakes on two consecutive days, but is now staying silent. I guess it'll even out over a long period of time.

This makes me even more curious about how this works, though. How is the difficulty connected to network weight ? Is the weight "approximated" backward from stake times like the network hash rate is in PoW coins ? This is why I confused difficulty and network weight, since these two (difficulty and (estimated) hash rate are connected with PoW).

So, to understand if I get it now, each second, a coin has a chance to stake equal to 1 in the integer part of ( (2^20) * coin-age-in-days-minus-6-hours * coin-value * difficulty / 0.0001 ), with difficulty being 0.003 at the moment.

Thanks




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August 25, 2014, 08:06:43 AM
 #997

clams lol proof of pearl lolol
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August 25, 2014, 08:08:44 AM
 #998

Also, in order to understand how this works, I added age and weight columns to the coin control window. I find it's useful. If you think it's a good addition, feel free to use this patch.
Also, if I messed up on how these are actually calcualted, feel free to correct me Cheesy It appears consistent with the total weight displayed in the bottom right corner, at least.



From 76cc57216ac6789972d769185b75e4c4a1de051d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: moneromooo <moneromooo@nowhere.nowhere.nowhere>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:05:11 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] coincontrol: add age/weight columns

---
 src/qt/coincontroldialog.cpp      | 16 +++++++++++++++-
 src/qt/coincontroldialog.h        |  2 ++
 src/qt/forms/coincontroldialog.ui | 16 ++++++++++++++++
 3 files changed, 33 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/src/qt/coincontroldialog.cpp b/src/qt/coincontroldialog.cpp
index f1008d4..11966a2 100644
--- a/src/qt/coincontroldialog.cpp
+++ b/src/qt/coincontroldialog.cpp
@@ -110,6 +110,8 @@ CoinControlDialog::CoinControlDialog(QWidget *parent) :
     ui->treeWidget->setColumnWidth(COLUMN_ADDRESS, 290);
     ui->treeWidget->setColumnWidth(COLUMN_DATE, 110);
     ui->treeWidget->setColumnWidth(COLUMN_CONFIRMATIONS, 100);
+    ui->treeWidget->setColumnWidth(COLUMN_AGE, 60);
+    ui->treeWidget->setColumnWidth(COLUMN_WEIGHT, 60);
     ui->treeWidget->setColumnWidth(COLUMN_PRIORITY, 100);
     ui->treeWidget->setColumnHidden(COLUMN_TXHASH, true);         // store transacton hash in this column, but dont show it
     ui->treeWidget->setColumnHidden(COLUMN_VOUT_INDEX, true);     // store vout index in this column, but dont show it
@@ -622,6 +624,7 @@ void CoinControlDialog::updateView()
         double dPrioritySum = 0;
         int nChildren = 0;
         int nInputSum = 0;
+        int dWeight = 0;
         BOOST_FOREACH(const COutput& out, coins.second)
         {
             int nInputSize = 148; // 180 if uncompressed public key
@@ -683,7 +686,17 @@ void CoinControlDialog::updateView()
 
             // confirmations
             itemOutput->setText(COLUMN_CONFIRMATIONS, strPad(QString::number(out.nDepth), 8, " "));
-            
+
+            // age
+            float age = (GetTime() - out.tx->GetTxTime()) / (float)(1440 * nTargetStakeSpacing);
+            itemOutput->setText(COLUMN_AGE, strPad(QString::number(age, 'g', 3), 8, " "));
+
+            // weight
+            int weight = floorf((GetTime() - out.tx->GetTxTime() - nStakeMinAge) * out.tx->vout[out.i].nValue / BitcoinUnits::factor(BitcoinUnits::BTC) / (float)(1440 * nTargetStakeSpacing));
+            if (weight < 0) weight = 0;
+            itemOutput->setText(COLUMN_WEIGHT, strPad(QString::number(weight), 5, " "));
+            dWeight += weight;
+
             // priority
             double dPriority = ((double)out.tx->vout[out.i].nValue  / (nInputSize + 78)) * (out.nDepth+1); // 78 = 2 * 34 + 10
             itemOutput->setText(COLUMN_PRIORITY, CoinControlDialog::getPriorityLabel(dPriority));
@@ -721,6 +734,7 @@ void CoinControlDialog::updateView()
             itemWalletAddress->setText(COLUMN_AMOUNT_INT64, strPad(QString::number(nSum), 15, " "));
             itemWalletAddress->setText(COLUMN_PRIORITY, CoinControlDialog::getPriorityLabel(dPrioritySum));
             itemWalletAddress->setText(COLUMN_PRIORITY_INT64, strPad(QString::number((int64_t)dPrioritySum), 20, " "));
+            itemWalletAddress->setText(COLUMN_WEIGHT, strPad(QString::number((int64_t)dWeight), 5, " "));
         }
     }
    
diff --git a/src/qt/coincontroldialog.h b/src/qt/coincontroldialog.h
index 5d0a90b..2f803d5 100644
--- a/src/qt/coincontroldialog.h
+++ b/src/qt/coincontroldialog.h
@@ -57,6 +57,8 @@ private:
         COLUMN_ADDRESS,
         COLUMN_DATE,
         COLUMN_CONFIRMATIONS,
+        COLUMN_AGE,
+        COLUMN_WEIGHT,
         COLUMN_PRIORITY,
         COLUMN_TXHASH,
         COLUMN_VOUT_INDEX,
diff --git a/src/qt/forms/coincontroldialog.ui b/src/qt/forms/coincontroldialog.ui
index 1364269..f002872 100644
--- a/src/qt/forms/coincontroldialog.ui
+++ b/src/qt/forms/coincontroldialog.ui
@@ -494,6 +494,22 @@
      </column>
      <column>
       <property name="text">
+       <string>Age</string>
+      </property>
+      <property name="toolTip">
+       <string>Age in days</string>
+      </property>
+     </column>
+     <column>
+      <property name="text">
+       <string>Weight</string>
+      </property>
+      <property name="toolTip">
+       <string>Weight</string>
+      </property>
+     </column>
+     <column>
+      <property name="text">
        <string>Priority</string>
       </property>
      </column>
--
1.9.3





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dooglus
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August 25, 2014, 08:32:40 AM
 #999

Ah, it seems I was confusing difficulty and network weight. I get 0.002 like numbers from getstakinginfo too, and I was giving the network weight as what I thought was a synonym for difficulty.

And it seems the random factor is rather large - my 4.6 block made two 0.1 stakes on two consecutive days, but is now staying silent. I guess it'll even out over a long period of time.

Take a look at http://khashier.com:2750/address/xC6ktEBwaTk8G27wCWwQjGmDuK14SZPvJa for example.

The 4.6 staked to 4.7 and then to 4.8, taking about 3 days between those two events. Then 3 days later it split into two 2.45's, and each of those has been staking since, about once every 3 days between the two of them. Replace the address with your address and you'll see the data for your output - but about once per 3 days seems to be how it goes, roughly.

Network weight is indeed approximated based on recent staking rate, like PoW hashrate. There's no other way to know how many coins are currently staking. It could be that lots of coins are trying to stake but being incredibly unlucky, or the converse.

The difficulty is adjusted to try to make it so that one block is staked per minute - that's all. And the network weight is approximated based on how fast blocks actually staked based on the difficulty as it stood for each recent block.

So, to understand if I get it now, each second, a coin has a chance to stake equal to 1 in the integer part of ( (2^20) * coin-age-in-days-minus-6-hours * coin-value * difficulty / 0.0001 ), with difficulty being 0.003 at the moment.

I'm not sure of the details. But isn't it 4 hours not 6?

unsigned int nStakeMinAge = 4 * 60 * 60; // 4 hours

I have an output here that just staked. It was worth 2.55 CLAM and is 8.96 days old. That's a weight of 22 CLAMdays.

The first 8 digits of the hash were 00000c76, and they had to be less than 00002092. That's a 1-in-515107 chance (0x100000000 / 0x00002092), and so on average that output would take 515k seconds to stake. That's 5.96 days.

Does that help you check your math?

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MoneroMooo
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August 25, 2014, 01:08:07 PM
 #1000

Yes, you're right it's 4 hours, sorry.

And I think it answers my questions, thanks a lot.

Your example falls within less than an order of magnitude with what I get, which is easily accounted by variations of difficulty, which seems to flail around a fair bit, at least in the last day or so.

Thanks!




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