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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1102463 times)
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Zer0Sum
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July 11, 2014, 04:15:15 AM
 #421

As of this writing there are 1577.42107239 CLAM on Poloniex sell side...

So we know for sure that at least 1577.42107239 CLAM has been 'dug'.

Plus mine, which are NOT @ Poloniex but happily staking in my wallet makes it 1582.42107239 CLAM...

At one point 10 percent of all PMC was @ Poloniex...
 
I assume that since CLAM is pure POS and staking sort of fast enough, quite a few more are also in wallets staking...  elsewhere

Extrapolating, it is quite possible, right now, there are less than 20,000 CLAM in the wild...

Very very under priced  Smiley

I would bet you'll see at least 10% of the 14 million claimed somehow...
The price action last 3-4 days is very troubling... just a steady slide from 500 to 100.

No point selling now with that pool gearing up to buy clams and stake for the long term....
But it's a only like 30 MHash or the equivalent of 5 Gridseed G-Blades...
Why so low with the glut of scrypt ASICs out there?
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July 11, 2014, 04:32:35 AM
 #422

Here is an unofficial website that I have created for CLAMS. I will give away or forward the domain if the devs make their own official website.

http://www.clamclient.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE in early 2014 has CLAMS.
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July 11, 2014, 05:31:35 AM
 #423

Can someone explain how the "mining" works?

I just mined 0.01052854 (txid 4838924d031291d4a21d1cfb956a82376cf8f997b455a601946255fe7907c234) using an address that was part of the initial distribution, and which I've not otherwise touched.

A couple of days ago it mined its first 0.00679001, and that was after a couple of months of inactivity, then 2 days later it mined another 0.0105...

I was thinking each 4.x output would mine a fixed amount per day, but this one mined more in the last 2 days than the previous 2 months, so now I know I don't understand it...

Edit: here's the Abe page for the address I'm talking about:

http://khashier.com:2750/address/xVBvXSadyMpcvU2nsDYTZJdctniVXfFBkK

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July 11, 2014, 08:12:48 AM
 #424

Can someone explain how the "mining" works?

I just mined 0.01052854 (txid 4838924d031291d4a21d1cfb956a82376cf8f997b455a601946255fe7907c234) using an address that was part of the initial distribution, and which I've not otherwise touched.

A couple of days ago it mined its first 0.00679001, and that was after a couple of months of inactivity, then 2 days later it mined another 0.0105...

I was thinking each 4.x output would mine a fixed amount per day, but this one mined more in the last 2 days than the previous 2 months, so now I know I don't understand it...

Edit: here's the Abe page for the address I'm talking about:

http://khashier.com:2750/address/xVBvXSadyMpcvU2nsDYTZJdctniVXfFBkK

PoS interest is 1% per year  

amount = 4.60545574
start date may 16 up to PoS mine july 08 = ~53.8 days

4.60545574 times 1% / 365 days times 53.8 days = 0.00679
so the first PoS is right
----
amount 4.61216361
start date July 8 up to july 11 = 3 days
4.61216361 times 1% / 365 days times 3 days = 0.00037908

that should be the amount you get for 3 days PoS mining

trying to get a 2nd PoS block now and see if i get the same results as yours


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July 11, 2014, 08:21:25 AM
 #425

PoS interest is 1% per year  

amount = 4.60545574
start date may 16 up to PoS mine july 08 = ~53.8 days

4.60545574 times 1% / 365 days times 53.8 days = 0.00679
so the first PoS is right
----
amount 4.61216361
start date July 8 up to july 11 = 3 days
4.61216361 times 1% / 365 days times 3 days = 0.00037908

that should be the amount you get for 3 days PoS mining

Most blocks I find do earn about that much, but check the top line:



Edit: The excess is transaction fees from the transactions I included in the block:
http://khashier.com:2750/block/9fd60333d224cd9a4dfa49433488a713ca7e477ff46b9b8ac5007983ddb2f4d5

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July 11, 2014, 08:52:14 AM
 #426

I am loving this coin/concept....  Wink

Am I right in thinking a Block Explorer for CLAM would be sort of useless for getting a true sense of how many CLAM has actually been claimed?
Or is there a way to indicate how many have actually been 'dug' up?

There's no way of knowing how many have been "dug up", unless "mining" was left enabled. Mining is on by default, and newly dug clams get a high priority for mining. They've not made a block for >60 days.

So a block explorer that counted how many of the initial coin distribution have ever been used to mine a block would give interesting information.

i "dug up" my clams
http://khashier.com:2750/tx/d461658062e513736f60f9df1f2896f166d3aa57eb82cabce6264f68bf17502e

of the 357 outputs, only 4 have been redeemed or only 1.12%

can that be used to determine how many actual clams are in circulation? the rest show in the block explorer as "not yet redeemed"


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July 11, 2014, 03:39:24 PM
 #427



I would bet you'll see at least 10% of the 14 million claimed somehow...
The price action last 3-4 days is very troubling... just a steady slide from 500 to 100.

No point selling now with that pool gearing up to buy clams and stake for the long term....
But it's a only like 30 MHash or the equivalent of 5 Gridseed G-Blades...
Why so low with the glut of scrypt ASICs out there?

I think when the price was north of 0.005 BTC each we had some dumpers... For many people even 0.02 BTC is a lot of money... ( explains all the micro-trades @ poloniex )

Pure POS, 1 minute blocks, awesome distribution, CLAM is pretty under priced right now..

"This website was NOT created by the original CLAMS developers. It was created by a cryptocurrency trader and his GIRLFRIEND who think that CLAMS is just about the coolest thing they’ve ever seen. "  http://clamclient.com

If the girls like it.... watch out! The sky is the limit!  Smiley

Also the low hashrate is good for people with GPU and even CPU's to get a few while it's early...

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July 11, 2014, 04:02:14 PM
 #428

Also the low hashrate is good for people with GPU and even CPU's to get a few while it's early...

From what I understand, you only get to make one hash per second per transaction output, so using a GPU won't get you any more coins than using a CPU.

Also, even if it did get you more blocks, each block subsidy is proportional to the CLAM-days destroyed, and so doubling the number of blocks you mine would halve the average subsidy per block.

I've been tracking block rewards I received, and noting the corresponding "days destroyed" for each.

The ones I've seen:

Code:
  4 0.00010951
  5 0.00013689
  6 0.00016427
  7 0.00019165
  8 0.00021903
  9 0.00024641
 10 0.00027379
 11 0.00030116
 12 0.00032854
 13 0.00035592
 14 0.0003833

ie. you get about 2738 CLAMoshis per day destroyed. Sometimes you'll see odd rewards (I saw 0.01052854 a while ago) - but that's just 0.00032854 (the reward for destroying 12 CLAM-days) plus 0.0102 (the sum of the transaction fees offered by people wanting their transactions confirmed)

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July 11, 2014, 04:45:08 PM
 #429

I just posted an "issue" on github:

    https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/issues/3

I'm worried that the coming change to a lottery system pretty much breaks the "proof of stake" system, by making the block reward completely independent of the size of your stake.

Under the current system I can chose to run the client once a month if I like, and collect my whole month's "interest" in one lump. Or I can collect it daily. There's no benefit to doing it either way.

Under the new system I get the same expected return each time I stake. If I only run the client once a month I get 30 times less interest than if I run it every day.

Is that right, or am I mistaken?

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July 11, 2014, 05:09:06 PM
 #430

Under the current system I can chose to run the client once a month if I like, and collect my whole month's "interest" in one lump. Or I can collect it daily. There's no benefit to doing it either way.

Under the new system I get the same expected return each time I stake. If I only run the client once a month I get 30 times less interest than if I run it every day.

Encouraging people to leave their client open (through the incentive of small but consistent rewards) does benefit the network, especially since this is a PoS only coin. Orbitcoin moved to this model a few months ago. Yes, it does also mean that people who understand staking will probably split their balance so that they'll end up with more overall stakes, but don't forget that PoS minting is still limited network-wide, so you may not necessarily be able to mint every PoS block that you are entitled to.

Not really sure about random subsidies. If the subsidy is known in advance (eg seed based on hash of the previous block) it would be trivial to add some extra code to pick and choose, only staking when the subsidy is a good amount. This could give people with relatively small balances a distinct advantage because even though they may not be able to consistently generate blocks, their per-block reward will be much higher than average.
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July 11, 2014, 06:27:17 PM
 #431

I think when the price was north of 0.005 BTC each we had some dumpers... For many people even 0.02 BTC is a lot of money... ( explains all the micro-trades @ poloniex )
Pretty much.  I sold all my clams at around 0.0075 CLAM/BTC.  Cleared a solid 0.5 BTC profit with little effort.

I will probably re-buy clams at some point, but I don't think it's quite time yet.

I'm waiting for a better wallet interface that has a proper GUI interface for importing wallet.dat files from BTC/LTC/Doge.  Clams can only go so far without this, IMO.

Also the low hashrate is good for people with GPU and even CPU's to get a few while it's early...
Proof of Share coins aren't mined like that... ?
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July 11, 2014, 06:30:18 PM
 #432

I see the bold large text on the op about a hard fork but it is hard to find any information about what exactly is meant. I checked back to page 19 and didn't read anything. Imho if you are forking the least that could be done is a link to the page where the main information is in the posting.

I don't mind digging for clams, but i shouldn't have to for info!

That being said, anyone have any info on the hardfork? I even checked out the reddit but saw nothing about "hardfork; info" or something of that nature. Thanks in advance!

We can't grow when we won't criticize ourselves!
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July 11, 2014, 06:38:33 PM
 #433

That being said, anyone have any info on the hardfork? I even checked out the reddit but saw nothing about "hardfork; info" or something of that nature. Thanks in advance!
They have completely changed the proof of stake reward model.

https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/blob/master/src/main.cpp
Read function at line 996:
int64_t GetProofOfStakeReward(const CBlockIndex* pindex, int64_t nCoinAge, int64_t nFees )
[...]
const int64_t maxReward = 1000 * COIN; //1000 CLAMS
const int64_t minReward = 10000000; //.1 CLAM
[...]

---

Quite simply, it appears the rewards for staking are now random between .1 and 1000 clams.

CoinAge is no longer relevant to reward.  I'm a bit concerned as to why this hasn't been explained better...  So far, I really dislike this change.

---

@SuperClam:
Quote from: SuperClam
Block Reward: ~1% APR
This doesn't seem very correct anymore?
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July 11, 2014, 07:05:05 PM
 #434

Clams are 'evolving'.

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July 11, 2014, 07:08:23 PM
 #435

CoinAge is no longer relevant to reward.  I'm a bit concerned as to why this hasn't been explained better...  So far, I really dislike this change.

Me too.

Look at the commit that implemented the change:

https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/commit/4bd0451c080d572dbd4214910216f2d146835117

It has statements without terminating semicolons:

Code:
+        int tierOne = 2
 +        int tierTwo = 26
 +        int tierThree = 99

and it has weird non-C language:

Code:
+        if(random <= tierOne AND > 0){

I don't understand how code like that gets written. It looks like it was done by someone with no C++ experience at all.

To cap it all, the commit log message for the big change is "clam diggity".

Not exactly confidence-inspiring...

Quote from: SuperClam
Block Reward: ~1% APR
This doesn't seem very correct anymore?

No, not at all.

If I have 1000 CLAM in one single address, I get to mine 1 block for 1 random reward every 510 blocks.
If I have 100 CLAM in each of 10 different addresses, I get to mine 10 blocks for 10 random rewards every 510 blocks.

That messes up the incentives, as I see it.

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July 11, 2014, 07:28:15 PM
 #436

Thank you so far. This is the type of shit that kills coins imo.

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July 11, 2014, 07:37:52 PM
 #437

Thank you so far. This is the type of shit that kills coins imo.

What is?

Weird unannounced changes out of nowhere? Or the discussion of such changes?

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July 11, 2014, 07:39:27 PM
 #438

I get the confusion .

There is a bunch of information concerning the changes and reasoning behind the changes in the update coming in a very short while to the OP Post.

It likely won't satisfy everyone, but hopefully you will at least understand the reasoning behind it.

More importantly, we hope you will compete in the CLAMS network and stake some Lottery blocks.

Afterall, more folks staking == a more secure CLAMS network with more predictable block times.



Code:
+        if(random <= tierOne AND > 0){

Be nice!  
That is pseudo code written by "creativecuriosity" which has to be painstakingly translated from time to time when there is a decision to implement one of her ideas.

We don't hide our commits.  
We invite anyone who has "chops" to contribute to the CLAMS project: we believe in open source software.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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July 11, 2014, 07:56:11 PM
 #439

I'm noticing the "Pearl Payouts Percentage Rankings" are offline?

http://khashier.com/workers

Any chance they can be restored?

Thanks!
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July 11, 2014, 08:19:13 PM
 #440

There is a bunch of information concerning the changes and reasoning behind the changes in the update coming in a very short while to the OP Post.

[...]

We don't hide our commits.  
We invite anyone who has "chops" to contribute to the CLAMS project: we believe in open source software.

Where is the "bunch of information"?

I see commits to the git repo. Most of them have lot messages like "update" and "updates" and no code comments.

There are no pull requests being submitted and discussed that I see.

So what is the open source strategy you're using? It sounds to me like I'm missing out on most of the discussion. Where does it happen?

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