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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803607 times)
FNG
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October 09, 2014, 03:59:11 PM
 #13661

Dow -225



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cypherdoc
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October 09, 2014, 04:04:18 PM
 #13662

the sweet smell of deflation:

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October 09, 2014, 04:06:39 PM
 #13663

Dow -225



 Smiley

I wonder if its really happening... big swings usually result in big moves up or down... get out your grid bots
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October 09, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
 #13664

BFX shorts at ALL TIME HIGH.  SQUEEZE THE SHIT OUT OF THEM:

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October 09, 2014, 04:13:48 PM
 #13665

Wow, just some incredible posts the last few pages; I'm seriously wondering if I've taken a wrong turn with crypto.  Some of this conspiracy stuff about "the manipulator" is just plain ludicrous, I'm going to stop myself because I don't won't get into either a discussion/argument nor offend anyone.

I seriously believe a lot of you need to take a break from monitors and charts and analysis; take a walk in the woods, dance, talk to people face to face, visit another country.  Find some balance.

I literally WAS taking a walk in the woods for the last few days, and so missed out on this buying opportunity.  Not that that matters much.  

But you need to consider the difference between true tin-foil hatters, who actually believe unsubstantiated theories, and cypherdoc's posting which is not so interesting because it MIGHT be true, but is interesting because it COULD be true.  In other words, he has identified how a trader could get an edge in the current btc ecosystem.

Also, one thing that he didn't mention: it is unlikely that a major investor in an exchange would actually need to transfer the money before using it.  The investor would just call up the exchange and say credit my account $10M, the $ is coming.  Its up to the exchange's discretion to essentially offer a swing loan to anybody it wants.  And this is basically a no-brainer in the case of an investor since the loan can be presumably backed by the round of funding from the investor that is sitting in the exchange's bank account.


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October 09, 2014, 04:22:28 PM
 #13666

if Jim Cramer can admit to manipulating S&P futures in pre-hours trading via his hedge fund in a public video, don't you think Pantera might be willing to do the same?  especially when they own an equity position in the most often referenced exchange and can probably see the order books?  remember, they are the first Bitcoin only hedge fund established back in the early days with a substantial #BTC.  also, look at the totality of the evidence i've presented. 
ErisDiscordia
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October 09, 2014, 04:23:00 PM
 #13667

Wow, just some incredible posts the last few pages; I'm seriously wondering if I've taken a wrong turn with crypto.  Some of this conspiracy stuff about "the manipulator" is just plain ludicrous, I'm going to stop myself because I don't won't get into either a discussion/argument nor offend anyone.

I seriously believe a lot of you need to take a break from monitors and charts and analysis; take a walk in the woods, dance, talk to people face to face, visit another country.  Find some balance.

Another person falls prey to the Great Conspiracy - the idea that there are no conspiracies. Influential people meeting behind closed doors to plot using their power to advance their agenda and position? Bah! That never happens.

When dealing with conspiracies and conspiracy theories it's important not to fall into logical fallacies and keep asking questions. Do I think all of this this true? Does any of the evidence support it? Are parts of it true? Which ones? Might parts of it be 80% probable, but others plain under 1% close to impossible? Are there alternative theories explaining parts or all of the story more credibly?

Waving your arm and saying "Oh you conspiracy nuts need to get out and get a life, you are all deluded in everything you believe in" is sloppy thinking and incidentally plays into the cards of people, who would actually like to conspire in secrecy.

See, your denial of existence of conspiracies is the very thing which makes them so easy to occur. BAM! LOGIC! Take that lol

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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October 09, 2014, 04:23:06 PM
 #13668

Regardless of the trolls, what I like about the theory in particular (that I didn't know until now) are the details regarding Pantera's relationship with BitStamp.  This make two things more believable: (1) Pantera may have had some knowledge of the fiat balances that weekend on BitStamp as well as the propensity of the account holders to use them (giving Pantera confidence to nibble the wall rather than gulp it in a single bite thereby exposing their strategy), (2) Pantera would be more confident holding large balances on BitStamp than other investors.  

1,relationship with Circle too http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/pantera-capital
2,low price = more costumers and it's easy to buy with CC/DC or bank account
3,they are also nice connected together https://panteracapital.com/video/pantera-w14-morehead-athey/

Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
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October 09, 2014, 04:31:56 PM
 #13669

Regardless of the trolls, what I like about the theory in particular (that I didn't know until now) are the details regarding Pantera's relationship with BitStamp.  This make two things more believable: (1) Pantera may have had some knowledge of the fiat balances that weekend on BitStamp as well as the propensity of the account holders to use them (giving Pantera confidence to nibble the wall rather than gulp it in a single bite thereby exposing their strategy), (2) Pantera would be more confident holding large balances on BitStamp than other investors.  

1,relationship with Circle too http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/pantera-capital
2,low price = more costumers and it's easy to buy with CC/DC or bank account
3,they are also nice connected together https://panteracapital.com/video/pantera-w14-morehead-athey/


the WAY the wall was eaten is not inconsistent with Pantera being the majority buyer.  remember, the wall was jumping around.  Pantera could have started nibbling at the wall hoping that the wall would be reset at a lower price, as it had actually been earlier in the day.  somewhere around 290 or so, iirc.

also in regards to the OTC buy theory.  that theory requires a doubling of a manipulator's risk.  they have to not only hope to find a large OTC seller in the middle of the night on a Sunday when no one's working PLUS set up the 30K wall which puts them at risk for losing all of those 30K coins at an artificially low price thus destroying that strategy.

no, if there indeed was manipulation, the easiest and most straight forward way to do it would be to keep selling small and large chunks of BTC at the market over a 4 mo time all the while waiting with a large chunk of fiat on the #1 exchange that you happen to own waiting for a weak BTC loaded whale to panic dump.

if anyone knows of any addresses that are owned by Bitstamp and Pantera, those would be an interesting place to start looking for confirmatory movements or accumulations of BTC.
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October 09, 2014, 04:33:16 PM
 #13670


2,low price = more costumers and it's easy to buy with CC/DC or bank account

Rising price will bring many more customers than a falling one
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October 09, 2014, 04:44:32 PM
 #13671

if Jim Cramer can admit to manipulating S&P futures in pre-hours trading via his hedge fund in a public video, don't you think Pantera might be willing to do the same?  especially when they own an equity position in the most often referenced exchange and can probably see the order books?  remember, they are the first Bitcoin only hedge fund established back in the early days with a substantial #BTC.  also, look at the totality of the evidence i've presented. 

You haven't presented any "evidence".  Evidence would be something concrete linking Pantera to the action, like a screen capture of a bank transfer, or a bitcoin transfer from a known Pantera address to a known BitStamp address.

But you've certainly presented motive and opportunity.  You've shown us that a path exists, that Pantera is a likely candidate, but not that Pantera actually walked down it.  That's enough for me because I'm not interested in whether Pantera itself was able to do this, just that someone is able to do it. 

The fact that people will manipulate financial markets for fun and profit is evident by the last 100 years of history.  People are in jail for doing so in regulated markets.

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October 09, 2014, 05:15:05 PM
 #13672

Wow, just some incredible posts the last few pages; I'm seriously wondering if I've taken a wrong turn with crypto.  Some of this conspiracy stuff about "the manipulator" is just plain ludicrous, I'm going to stop myself because I don't won't get into either a discussion/argument nor offend anyone.

I seriously believe a lot of you need to take a break from monitors and charts and analysis; take a walk in the woods, dance, talk to people face to face, visit another country.  Find some balance.

Is it that much of a surprise that more criticial / conspiracy-seeing people (especially the hardcore early guys) generally are attracted to bitcoin, the trustless system?  I have to admit I am a bit more on the conspiracy-seeing side of the spectrum as well (with naive believe-everything-you-are-told people at the other end).    Finding a balance is indeed healthy.  Efficient reasoning to differentiate bullshit and truth is even better.  When reality is blurry/uncertain, people are more likely to fall back to their default mindset.
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October 09, 2014, 05:21:04 PM
 #13673

Dow - 295 Shocked
NotLambchop
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October 09, 2014, 05:32:19 PM
 #13674

Wow, just some incredible posts the last few pages; I'm seriously wondering if I've taken a wrong turn with crypto.  Some of this conspiracy stuff about "the manipulator" is just plain ludicrous, I'm going to stop myself because I don't won't get into either a discussion/argument nor offend anyone.

I seriously believe a lot of you need to take a break from monitors and charts and analysis; take a walk in the woods, dance, talk to people face to face, visit another country.  Find some balance.

Another person falls prey to the Great Conspiracy - the idea that there are no conspiracies. Influential people meeting behind closed doors to plot using their power to advance their agenda and position? Bah! That never happens.

When dealing with conspiracies and conspiracy theories it's important not to fall into logical fallacies and keep asking questions. Do I think all of this this true? Does any of the evidence support it? Are parts of it true? Which ones? Might parts of it be 80% probable, but others plain under 1% close to impossible? Are there alternative theories explaining parts or all of the story more credibly?

Waving your arm and saying "Oh you conspiracy nuts need to get out and get a life, you are all deluded in everything you believe in" is sloppy thinking and incidentally plays into the cards of people, who would actually like to conspire in secrecy.

See, your denial of existence of conspiracies is the very thing which makes them so easy to occur. BAM! LOGIC! Take that lol

"The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist."

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October 09, 2014, 05:46:23 PM
 #13675

Wow, just some incredible posts the last few pages; I'm seriously wondering if I've taken a wrong turn with crypto.  Some of this conspiracy stuff about "the manipulator" is just plain ludicrous, I'm going to stop myself because I don't won't get into either a discussion/argument nor offend anyone.

I seriously believe a lot of you need to take a break from monitors and charts and analysis; take a walk in the woods, dance, talk to people face to face, visit another country.  Find some balance.
I like how much work these guys do for me.  Don't discourage them!  Grin

But for myself, I do spend some time at the farm every day, feeding the alpaca, and mending fences.
It beats working out in a gym.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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October 09, 2014, 05:56:01 PM
 #13676

also in regards to the OTC buy theory.  that theory requires a doubling of a manipulator's risk.  they have to not only hope to find a large OTC seller in the middle of the night on a Sunday when no one's working PLUS set up the 30K wall which puts them at risk for losing all of those 30K coins at an artificially low price thus destroying that strategy.

The theory is that the OTC deal was agreed for the price, at that time, (ahead of the bearwahl's appearance), then the price manipulated to make the OCT deal profitable for the OTC byuer.  Perhaps the wall was moved so that it would survive until the appointed time?

If I were buying 50K+ coins OTC, burning 30K to get an artificially low price on the 50K would just make it all the more profitable.  I'm not a conspiracy buff, so it could easily be otherwise.  Just looking at the possibly economic reasons, such as an arbitraging trade with an OTC deal.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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October 09, 2014, 06:12:36 PM
 #13677

...
no, if there indeed was manipulation, the easiest and most straight forward way to do it would be to keep selling small and large chunks of BTC at the market over a 4 mo time all the while waiting with a large chunk of fiat on the #1 exchange that you happen to own waiting for a weak BTC loaded whale to panic dump.

if anyone knows of any addresses that are owned by Bitstamp and Pantera, those would be an interesting place to start looking for confirmatory movements or accumulations of BTC.


One thing I don't like about the Pantera theory - they seem to be legit bulls; believers in bitcoin's potential to help the world. So a willingness to relentlessly sell-down the market over a period of months, hurting otherwise rising confidence and positive public attention, doesn't quite fit. Unless they had some theory about the market being "overheated" and needing a "healthy" long correction or some such....but I doubt it.

Anyways, not saying it's impossible. Profit motives trumping ideals isn't exactly a special phenomenon.


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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October 09, 2014, 06:12:57 PM
 #13678

bearwahl

Dr. Bearwahl, I presume. Grin

▂▃▅▇█▓▒░BTC-Cultist░▒▓█▇▅▃▂
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October 09, 2014, 06:16:53 PM
 #13679

One thing I don't like about the Pantera theory - they seem to be legit bulls; believers in bitcoin's potential to help the world. So a willingness to relentlessly sell-down the market over a period of months, hurting otherwise rising confidence and positive public attention, doesn't quite fit. Unless they had some theory about the market being "overheated" and needing a "healthy" long correction or some such....but I doubt it.

Anyways, not saying it's impossible. Profit motives trumping ideals isn't exactly a special phenomenon.

Bullish enough to believe that there is no such thing as hurting Bitcoin's image and doing everything you can to get more while there is still time! Wink


Heh. Possibly. That $4.2M target was indeed extreme.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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October 09, 2014, 06:21:41 PM
 #13680

...
no, if there indeed was manipulation, the easiest and most straight forward way to do it would be to keep selling small and large chunks of BTC at the market over a 4 mo time all the while waiting with a large chunk of fiat on the #1 exchange that you happen to own waiting for a weak BTC loaded whale to panic dump.

if anyone knows of any addresses that are owned by Bitstamp and Pantera, those would be an interesting place to start looking for confirmatory movements or accumulations of BTC.


One thing I don't like about the Pantera theory - they seem to be legit bulls; believers in bitcoin's potential to help the world. So a willingness to relentlessly sell-down the market over a period of months, hurting otherwise rising confidence and positive public attention, doesn't quite fit. Unless they had some theory about the market being "overheated" and needing a "healthy" long correction or some such....but I doubt it.

Anyways, not saying it's impossible. Profit motives trumping ideals isn't exactly a special phenomenon.



Also hurting their accredited investors' confidence

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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