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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806582 times)
cypherdoc
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March 30, 2015, 04:26:32 PM
 #22361

Unbelievable

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/31/nyregion/silk-road-case-federal-agents-charges.html?referrer=
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March 30, 2015, 05:45:12 PM
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Bitcoin represents a fundamental change in the very fiber of the social order from which regimes are woven. I and I'm sure several other people have been predicting this for quite some time: incentives to ally oneself with the state break down when you can hold and transact money with complete secrecy.
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March 30, 2015, 05:48:01 PM
 #22363


This made me laugh.  Could the Ross verdict now get overturned becasue of this?... That would be side side-splitting funny.

Almost as funny as being called 'Carl Mark Force IV'   sounds like a German physics scale.
justusranvier
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March 30, 2015, 05:51:39 PM
 #22364

Bitcoin represents a fundamental change in the very fiber of the social order from which regimes are woven. I and I'm sure several other people have been predicting this for quite some time: incentives to ally oneself with the state break down when you can hold and transact money with complete secrecy.
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoins-rugged-individualism/
iCEBREAKER
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March 30, 2015, 05:53:53 PM
 #22365


Awesome.  The Bitcoin virus infects the King's Men of Babylon, even as the Ancien Régime rages and demands something Be Done to eradicate the perturbance...   Grin

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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March 30, 2015, 09:06:24 PM
 #22366

Bitcoin represents a fundamental change in the very fiber of the social order from which regimes are woven. I and I'm sure several other people have been predicting this for quite some time: incentives to ally oneself with the state break down when you can hold and transact money with complete secrecy.
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoins-rugged-individualism/

I didn't check but I assume this is the article where Daniel says even gvt officials might already be co-opted into the Bitcoin community. I agree.
cypherdoc
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March 30, 2015, 09:25:27 PM
 #22367

Bitcoin represents a fundamental change in the very fiber of the social order from which regimes are woven. I and I'm sure several other people have been predicting this for quite some time: incentives to ally oneself with the state break down when you can hold and transact money with complete secrecy.
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoins-rugged-individualism/

I didn't check but I assume this is the article where Daniel says even gvt officials might already be co-opted into the Bitcoin community. I agree.
Actually I guess no. Here it is :

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoins-shroud-of-subtlety-and-allure/#allure
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March 30, 2015, 10:31:40 PM
 #22368

Bitcoin represents a fundamental change in the very fiber of the social order from which regimes are woven. I and I'm sure several other people have been predicting this for quite some time: incentives to ally oneself with the state break down when you can hold and transact money with complete secrecy.
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoins-rugged-individualism/

I didn't check but I assume this is the article where Daniel says even gvt officials might already be co-opted into the Bitcoin community. I agree.
Actually I guess no. Here it is :

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoins-shroud-of-subtlety-and-allure/#allure

The cumulative breakdown of official "vertical" relationships into informal ad hoc "horizontal" ones (IE grey/black/shadow markets) is enormously corrosive to calcified Late Empire structures of coercion.  The most spectacular recent example is the fall of the Soviet Union:

Quote
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19900922&slug=1094485

Saturday, September 22, 1990

Soviet Union's `Shadow Economy' -- Bribery, Barter, Black-Market Deals Are The Facts Of Life

By David Remnick
Washington Post

MOSCOW - While the Soviet Union's legislators and theorists ponder the vistas of a revolutionary economic-reform program, the people of this country live like hunter-gatherers in a real-world economy that is half desert, half medieval bazaar.

The official structures of the Bolshevik experiment are collapsing with such finality, the state-run shops are so barren, that nearly everyone now must participate in the immense ``shadow economy'' of speculation and petty bribery, barter deals and black-marketeers.

President Mikhail Gorbachev has proposed sweeping economic change to a form of market economy - a measure the Supreme Soviet is scheduled to vote on Monday. But that's the future; for today, life for the average Soviet citizen is a struggle for survival.

The demands of the ``shadow economy'' trace a Soviet lifetime. A child comes into the world with the mother paying a 200-ruble bribe to the maternity nurse for a sterile needle and an anesthetic. When a Soviet citizen dies, relatives are overcome not only with grief but with the knowledge that they must pay thousands of rubles in bribes to the mortician, the coffin maker and the gravedigger.

The law and its protectors are also involved in the web of survival. A few months ago, a Soviet traffic cop waved down a Western correspondent. The officer said the correspondent had been driving too fast and had to pay a 10-ruble fine on the spot. Using a time-honored method, the reporter collapsed into pidgin Russian and feigned incomprehension.

``Well, that's OK,'' said the cop, reaching into his coat pocket. ``Would you like to buy some good black caviar?''

There is nothing new about the black market in the Soviet Union. There have always been shortages - and then illegal dealers to fill the gap for the right price. The Soviet economy has never worked efficiently enough to put black-marketeers out of business. But talking about the black market was taboo. When Konstantin Simis, an attorney and professor of law until he emigrated to the United States in 1977, was working in Moscow on an early draft of his book ``U.S.S.R.: The Corrupt Society,'' the KGB confiscated the manuscript.

What was once heresy is now the conventional wisdom. In the text of presidential adviser Stanislav Shatalin's 500 Day economic-reform program, a section on the ``shadow economy'' admits that to some degree the black market has been a ``necessary adjunct'' to the old ``administrative-command'' system. It estimates that the ``shadow economy'' accounts for 15 or 20 percent of the gross national product.

There are several levels of the ``shadow economy,'' ranging from the pure exploitation and manipulation of shortages by party bureaucrats to the ``half-legal'' workers who provide services that simply cannot be obtained on the legal, state market, from construction work to auto repair.

Imagine if they had Bitcoin instead of rubles!  Communism would have been dead in less than a year.   Cheesy

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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March 31, 2015, 12:31:39 AM
 #22369

Dratel should have worked to postpone the case until this info came out.  it could have influenced the final verdict.
iCEBREAKER
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March 31, 2015, 12:48:06 AM
 #22370

Dratel should have worked to postpone the case until this info came out.  it could have influenced the final verdict.

That's only the case if Dratel GAS about due process.

If he only cared about running a show trial and hanging DRP ASAP, he'd let the govt get away with anything they want.  IOW, exactly what happened.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
Chef Ramsay
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March 31, 2015, 12:52:57 AM
 #22371

These guys that worked this case and/or investigated for it had to learn a thing or two about bitcoin and probably encountered many smart people that gave them some pointers. I'm sure most of these agents are fairly well off buy probably have an idea that having some coins is a great enhancement to their pensions and 401k as they know a finite amount of something is a groovy thing.
cypherdoc
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March 31, 2015, 01:01:05 AM
 #22372

These guys that worked this case and/or investigated for it had to learn a thing or two about bitcoin and probably encountered many smart people that gave them some pointers. I'm sure most of these agents are fairly well off buy probably have an idea that having some coins is a great enhancement to their pensions and 401k as they know a finite amount of something is a groovy thing.

good money is starting to drive out bad.
cypherdoc
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March 31, 2015, 03:26:38 AM
 #22373

some would say SR started the rally of 2013.  perhaps it starts the rally of 2015?
cypherdoc
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March 31, 2015, 03:51:20 AM
 #22374

i really like the look of these:







and silverbox's favorite at 1/10 of where he was touting it:

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March 31, 2015, 06:22:33 AM
 #22375

DXY is starting to go down but won't do it without a fight as we're seeing. Good chance this will affect Bitcoin too. Markets will turn around pretty soon I think. Smiley

https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=2479
Trade stocks, commodities, currencies with bitcoins! Up to 200x Leverage.
cypherdoc
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March 31, 2015, 07:42:35 AM
 #22376

My gaud;

The government’s considerable efforts at keeping this monumental scandal from being aired at Ross Ulbricht’s trial is itself scandalous. In addition to keeping any information about the investigation from the defense for nearly nine months, then revealing it only five weeks prior to trial, and then moving to keep sealed and secret the general underlying information so that Mr. Ulbricht could not use it in his defense at trial, and then stymying the defense at every turn during trial when the defense tried to introduce favorable evidence, the government had also refused to agree to the defense’s request to adjourn the trial until after the indictment was returned and made public – a modest adjournment of a couple of months, since it was apparent that the investigation was nearing a conclusion. Throughout Mr. Ulbricht’s trial the government repeatedly used the secret nature of the grand jury investigation as an excuse to preclude valuable defense evidence that was not only produced in discovery, independent of the investigation of Mr. Force, but also which was only at best tenuously related to that investigation. In that manner the government deprived the jury of essential facts, and Mr. Ulbricht of due process. In addition, the government failed to disclose previously much of what is in the Complaint, including that two federal law enforcement agents involved in the Silk Road investigation were corrupt. It is clear from this Complaint that fundamentally the government’s investigation of Mr. Ulbricht lacked any integrity, and was wholly and fatally compromised from the inside. Also, it is clear that Mr. Force and others within the government obtained access to the administrative platforms of the Silk Road site, where they were able to commandeer accounts and had the capacity to change PIN numbers and other aspects of the site – all without the government’s knowledge of what precisely they did with that access. In light of the information provided in the Complaint, it is now apparent to all just how relevant some of the issues raised by the defense at trial were, including the payment by Dread Pirate Roberts to a law enforcement agent for information about the investigation, the ramping up of the investigation of Mr. Ulbricht in mid-2013, soon after that paid information began flowing, and the creation of certain evidence at trial, such as the 2013 journal that conveniently begins – again – in Spring 2013, after the corruption alleged in this Complaint ripened. As the evidence at trial – particularly from the government’s law enforcement witnesses – demonstrated, the Baltimore investigation and agents were inextricably involved in the evolution of the case and the evidence, as well as with alerting Mark Karpeles that he was under investigation, and meeting with his lawyers and exchanging information. At Mr. Ulbricht’s trial, knowing full well the corruption alleged in the Complaint made public today, the government still aggressively precluded much of that evidence, and kept it from the jury (and had other similar evidence stricken from the record). Consequently, the government improperly used the ongoing grand jury process in San Francisco as both a sword and a shield to deny Mr. Ulbricht access to and use of important evidence, and a fair trial.
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March 31, 2015, 08:31:48 AM
 #22377

I don't know how anyone reads this SR shit and fails to feel unease. How safe are we really?
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March 31, 2015, 09:53:44 AM
 #22378

I don't know how anyone reads this SR shit and fails to feel unease. How safe are we really?

... well you got to wonder about the Judge for sure, and probably higher ups too. Having money in a seizable bank account makes little sense at this point given the wanton disregard of rule of law all about the place.

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March 31, 2015, 10:39:12 AM
 #22379

Is there a common law precedent that a reasonable foreknowledge of the lack of the rule of law and possibility of a fair trial in the country, gives you the warrant to disregard existing laws to the extent when obeying them would only endanger you and other people to and in the hands of the unlawful system?

Or is this the very definition of being an outlaw?

Actually, there is. Christians (among others) were outlaws in The Third Reich. Bonhoeffer took the sword against the system. v. Moltke did not. Both were martyred. But the evil actions by the government were later condemned, and perpetrators put to death as well.

I would strongly advise Christians to physically depart from the United States now, and quit participating in the evil actions of their usurper government, lest you fall with them. God's patience is long but not infinite; He has promised to judge evil, and will do so.

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March 31, 2015, 12:17:12 PM
 #22380

Having money in a seizable bank account makes little sense at this point given the wanton disregard of rule of law all about the place.
On that same subject, it's worth taking some extra precautions with your bitcoins too.

Have some btc savings locked up in multisig outputs which you can not spend without the cooperation of friends (who are scattered across multiple independent legal jurisdictions) so that at least some of your money is safe even if you are physically incapacitated.
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