Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[tvbcof]

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine, at least that I recall.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

Not true, you referred subs to HashFast. They're now in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and I have to fight tooth and nail with them and the DOJ to get back what was promised to me.

Here's a little something I learned in childhood Cyph:  If you don't tell lies then you don't have to try to remember which ones you told to who, mitigate the subsequent damage, etc, etc.

 - edit:  BTW, good call on getting back to basics Vokain.  We really do need to be analyzing the risks, warnings, etc or centralization and related failure modes.  Unfortunately it's just so much fun to troll.  And by Cypherdoc's own admission that was exactly the purpose for his starting this particular thread.

[smoothie]

...
Got anyone to back up your claim? Just curious.

 

I was pretty liberal in comments on this forum with information about my strategy and operations back when I was a buyer IIRC, and it's not my style to delete old posts.  Knock yourself out if it's that important to you.  Else I guess you'll have to get me into a deposition or something.

I'll take that as a no.

[cypherdoc]

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine, at least that I recall.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

Not true, you referred subs to HashFast. They're now in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and I have to fight tooth and nail with them and the DOJ to get back what was promised to me. I'm still optimistic but I'm weary after 10 months of this.

Now that is certainly true. And that is truly a  black eye i deserve although it was an honest mistake in character judgment. It wasn't so much a recommendation to mine but that if one wanted to mine they could buy from what I thought would be a good company.

As we see, many early adopters have made the same mistake like Andreas with Neo & Bee, Roger with mtgox,  and Tuur with CoinTerra & Neo Bee. Nonetheless, I do feel bad about Hashfast.

[cypherdoc]

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.

tvbcof is afraid of Bitcoin. That's easy to see by his preference for gold. The difference between us is that I think the bull had just begun while he's clearly dumped a significant portion of his holdings probably never to get them back.

Otoh, I wonder just how much he's really transacted in Bitcoin given his misunderstanding of how addresses work. For those interested, tvbcof was under the impression that by entering one wrong character into a receiving address it would result in an irretrievable loss of Bitcoin by sending them off into the ether sphere to someone else's address. I don't know about you but before the very first time I sent a bitcoin I researched the ramifications of just that; entering a wrong character. That's just good money management and intellectual curiosity. Most of you know that a mistyped address  won't take as the address has a checksum built into the last 4 bytes making this impossible. You'll also note that when you right click on an address to copy it automatically selects the entire thing so you don't leave behind any characters when you paste; yet another safeguard.  You need to know these things if you're moving bitcoin around. The fact that tvbcof didn't know these things brings into question his claimed experience in transacting at all .

I had to clear this misunderstanding up for him just a scant couple months ago.

That's the best you got?  Yes, it's true that I was under the impression that Bitcoin addresses did not use a checksum.  I understand what a checksum is and how they tend to be constructed.  I just read somewhere long ago that Bitcoin didn't use them and that was wrong.  I didn't read the source code, and I find it highly doubtful that you did either.

BTW, it was in this conversation (and others) that our dear friend Cypherdoc suggests that one's deep storage be accessible via fungus wallet running on Android OS.  Genius!

As I've said before, if I had only gold and no BTC, I'd be buying BTC.  If I had only BTC and no gold, I'd be buying gold.  Such concepts just don't resonate with the fundamentalism mind.  I understand this so, no bust.

Who's lying now?

the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.

[tvbcof]

Who's lying now?

Since your memory seems to be failing you, the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.

You didn't specify 'small amounts of spendable Bitcoin'.  You said you access cold storage from your Android in a response to my saying that, yes, bitcoin hoards can be made secure at the expense of making them as user un-friendly as one's gold hoard and that many people have come to lament Bitcoin's 'ease of use' when they get their stash ripped off.

My point was, again, that I sleep well at night because even I cannot get to most of my stash without a bunch of planning and time.  Just like with my gold.  And this mitigates some of Bitcoin's advantages.  You tried to downplay that by saying that you could send me BTC within a minute from your cold storage through the magic of Android and a piece of paper in your wallet.  It makes no sense if you are talking about trivial sums.  And it is kinda stupid if one is talking about large sums.

[tvbcof]

...
Got anyone to back up your claim? Just curious.

 

I was pretty liberal in comments on this forum with information about my strategy and operations back when I was a buyer IIRC, and it's not my style to delete old posts.  Knock yourself out if it's that important to you.  Else I guess you'll have to get me into a deposition or something.

I'll take that as a no.

Correct.

[cypherdoc]

Who's lying now?

Since your memory seems to be failing you, the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.

You didn't specify 'small amounts of spendable Bitcoin'.  You said you access cold storage from your Android in a response to my saying that, yes, bitcoin hoards can be made secure at the expense of making them as user un-friendly as one's gold hoard and that many people have come to lament Bitcoin's 'ease of use' when they get their stash ripped off.

My point was, again, that I sleep well at night because even I cannot get to most of my stash without a bunch of planning and time.  Just like with my gold.  And this mitigates some of Bitcoin's advantages.  You tried to downplay that by saying that you could send me BTC within a minute from your cold storage through the magic of Android and a piece of paper in your wallet.  It makes no sense if you are talking about trivial sums.  And it is kinda stupid if one is talking about large sums.

if you can find the links back to the discussion i'm quite sure i made it clear that i was not talking about accessing large sums of cold storage BTC with my Android as you are trying to imply to everyone here.  this is just another example of you twisting words and meanings in an attempt to straw man an argument into your favor.  you do this shit constantly.

[cypherdoc]

Gallippi and Pair have to be considered some of our community's greatest promoters.  This:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-ncaa-college-football-bowl-sponsorship-bitpay/

what we need to do is get a long line of about 20 seats side by side with 7 ppl holding the letters "BITCOIN" in the center with Bitcoin logos flanking each side.  i'm sure we'd get several TV shots with millions of viewers.

To the Moon.

[tvbcof]

...
you always love to sound bearish yet you cling to your coins.  this thread was made to torment gold bugs like you; i'm glad it's working.

As I was arguing almost three years ago, one need not actually hold all that many BTC to speculate.  This because if Bitcoin actually 'goes', then it will go much higher than we've sen yet.  And a relatively small stash will be enough money to last a lifetime.

As I also mentioned, picking up more BTC that one needs has significant utility for only, say, double the risk to one's outlay.  The reason for this being that if Bitcoin 'partially goes', then one can do quite well and cancel out the risk of holding a risky asset but STILL have enough to take advantage of a conflagration if we are lucky enough to have such a thing in the future.

I choose the latter strategy and at 100x profit I started to execute on it.  That's all.

As for being 'bullish' or 'bearish', I try to simply keep an eye toward all possibilities and call out factors which might be influencing past, present, and future events.  As I say regularly, I think the odds of a 'conflagration' are higher now than they every have been.  If we are lucky enough to see one it will be critical to understand the event in order to best capitalize.  If one closes one's eyes to every possibility other than it being 'a march to the pre-ordained role as the worlds reserve currency' it is very probably that one will regret having done so.  Or equally, if one follows some zealot who is disposed to that pattern of thought.

[tvbcof]

Of course tvbcof feels entitled, he's a socialist who thinks people should thank him for opening his mouth. And no, I never recommended to my subs to mine.  But certainly to buy. But nice cheap shot nonetheless.
...

I guess your subscribers have a better recollection than you.  Perhaps getting fucked in the ass when trying to mine sharpens ones total recall abilities.

But let's say that you didn't recommend mining as you claim.  Then you are doing one thing and counseling your subscribers to do another.  Not that such a thing is unheard of in the world of paid investment gurus of course.  At least in this case it was not (or 'would not' in this hypothetical) be the subscribers who got reamed.  Yet.  That is a bit unusual and laudable.

Or would be laudable, but given that it was only yesterday that I corrected your misunderstandings about the economics of mining you would have a hard time arguing that by not counseling to mine while you yourself were going whole hog on it you were trying to do your subscribers right.

[tvbcof]

...

Otoh, I wonder just how much he's really transacted in Bitcoin given his misunderstanding of how addresses work. For those interested, tvbcof was under the impression that by entering one wrong character into a receiving address it would result in an irretrievable loss of Bitcoin by sending them off into the ether sphere to someone else's address. I don't know about you but before the very first time I sent a bitcoin I researched the ramifications of just that; entering a wrong character. That's just good money management and intellectual curiosity. Most of you know that a mistyped address  won't take as the address has a checksum built into the last 4 bytes making this impossible. You'll also note that when you right click on an address to copy it automatically selects the entire thing so you don't leave behind any characters when you paste; yet another safeguard.  You need to know these things if you're moving bitcoin around. The fact that tvbcof didn't know these things brings into question his claimed experience in transacting at all .

I had to clear this misunderstanding up for him just a scant couple months ago. And he calls himself a computer guy?

That reminds me of when you were using the '$' unit identifier on the unitless USDX metric.  Quite unbecoming of a macro-economic guru who confidently predicts that BTC will be the new worlds reserve currency.

I don't recall your ever thanking me for inducing you to finally stop embarrassing yourself on a daily basis.  Possibly I just missed it though.

[cypherdoc]

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

your problem is you think that the mining hashrate will only go in one direction (up forever) and that what is right now will never change.  and as i said above, you see mining as one dimensional (fast buck) w/o considering all the other motivations for ppl to mine.  it's quite possible that the hashrate will level off or even drop at some point making mining more profitable for those who aren't profitable currently while at the same time keeping it more decentralized.  or maybe not.  the point is we don't know.  i choose to position myself with maximum diversity in regards to mining.  i don't have a lot invested in equipment and i try to keep my costs down.  but that's just me.  you choose to ignore it but at the cost of not understanding it.

according to this, mining revenue is going back up:  https://blockchain.info/charts/miners-revenue

therefore, i personally have decided to keep mining and as i said it is profitable for me.  it may not be for others who have higher costs.  so for you to blanket say that mining is "fucking stupid" is stupid and ignores all sorts of other variables.  it's a personal decision.

as far as my subs were concerned, they were offered a choice, buy a miner or don't.  nothing was forced upon them.  everyone has to do their own research and calculations and consider their own circumstances.  it's like all the other advice i give in the newsletter; you can choose to follow or not.  vokain above forgot to mention that in January i recommended to him personally via email that he get a refund while he had the opportunity to get one; he declined to do so and we see the results of that.

i'm glad that you think that i wield so much influence.  it's flattering.  keep trying hard to undermine that.

[cypherdoc]

...

Otoh, I wonder just how much he's really transacted in Bitcoin given his misunderstanding of how addresses work. For those interested, tvbcof was under the impression that by entering one wrong character into a receiving address it would result in an irretrievable loss of Bitcoin by sending them off into the ether sphere to someone else's address. I don't know about you but before the very first time I sent a bitcoin I researched the ramifications of just that; entering a wrong character. That's just good money management and intellectual curiosity. Most of you know that a mistyped address  won't take as the address has a checksum built into the last 4 bytes making this impossible. You'll also note that when you right click on an address to copy it automatically selects the entire thing so you don't leave behind any characters when you paste; yet another safeguard.  You need to know these things if you're moving bitcoin around. The fact that tvbcof didn't know these things brings into question his claimed experience in transacting at all .

I had to clear this misunderstanding up for him just a scant couple months ago. And he calls himself a computer guy?

That reminds me of when you were using the '$' unit identifier on the unitless USDX metric.  Quite unbecoming of a macro-economic guru who confidently predicts that BTC will be the new worlds reserve currency.

I don't recall your ever thanking me for inducing you to finally stop embarrassing yourself on a daily basis.  Possibly I just missed it though.

source please?

the only one embarrassing himself is you bud.  the BTC/gold metric has skyrocketed since this thread began all the while you hyping gold.  your negative returns on gold must hurt.

and btw, please provide several quotes of you being so bullish on BTC back near the bottom in 2011. 

[cypherdoc]

Who's lying now?

Since your memory seems to be failing you, the recommendation was to use Mycelium cold storage to access small amounts of spendable Bitcoin one can carry around in their physical  wallet on a QR code.  This was in response to your unfound claim that one's bitcoins aren't accessible. Yet another misunderstanding of how bitcoin works on your part.

You didn't specify 'small amounts of spendable Bitcoin'.  You said you access cold storage from your Android in a response to my saying that, yes, bitcoin hoards can be made secure at the expense of making them as user un-friendly as one's gold hoard and that many people have come to lament Bitcoin's 'ease of use' when they get their stash ripped off.

My point was, again, that I sleep well at night because even I cannot get to most of my stash without a bunch of planning and time.  Just like with my gold.  And this mitigates some of Bitcoin's advantages.  You tried to downplay that by saying that you could send me BTC within a minute from your cold storage through the magic of Android and a piece of paper in your wallet.  It makes no sense if you are talking about trivial sums.  And it is kinda stupid if one is talking about large sums.

clearly you don't want to link back to those conversations b/c it must be so embarrassing to you to demonstrate such a lack of knowledge on how a Bitcoin address is constructed not to mention how blatantly you've tried to distort what i said.

[tvbcof]

That reminds me of when you were using the '$' unit identifier on the unitless USDX metric.  Quite unbecoming of a macro-economic guru who confidently predicts that BTC will be the new worlds reserve currency.

I don't recall your ever thanking me for inducing you to finally stop embarrassing yourself on a daily basis.  Possibly I just missed it though.

source please?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg903068#msg903068

the only one embarrassing himself is you bud.  the BTC/gold metric has skyrocketed since this thread began all the while you hyping gold.  your negative returns on gold must hurt.

and btw, please provide several quotes of you being so bullish on BTC back near the bottom in 2011. 

I'm tired of doing all the work for you.  Learn to write a scraper and use grep if you want to solve some of your research deficiencies.

BTW, the 'cold storage via Android' conversation which merged into my learning that addresses do have a checksum after all got going around Jan 27 or this year and lasted a few days.  Eventually you did back-track and say that you didn't really store that much on your person and could not send off your you stash within on minute.  Which effectively made my point.

[cypherdoc]

I'm tired of doing all the work for you.  Learn to write a scraper and use grep if you want to solve some of your research deficiencies.

BTW, the 'cold storage via Android' conversation which merged into my learning that addresses do have a checksum after all got going around Jan 27 or this year and lasted a few days.  Eventually you did back-track and say that you didn't really store that much on your person and could not send off your you stash within on minute.  Which effectively made my point.

i'm not the one making the claims.  you are. 

[vokain]

as far as my subs were concerned, they were offered a choice, buy a miner or don't.  nothing was forced upon them.  everyone has to do their own research and calculations and consider their own circumstances.  it's like all the other advice i give in the newsletter; you can choose to follow or not.  vokain above forgot to mention that in January i recommended to him personally via email that he get a refund while he had the opportunity to get one; he declined to do so and we see the results of that.

This was my choice and that's fine, I stand by that and I hope the bankruptcy will proceed okay, though I've never been part of this shit before... but on the bright side it's been a stimulating game so far. But anyway, in the interests of being forthright I have to clarify this above statement. Cypherdoc, you were a compensated representative of Hashfast at one point. There was some conflict of interest in the trust your subscribers had for you and your affiliation with that company though our end goals and interests were more or less aligned.

Regardless, the whole point of purchasing miners at that point was so that I could make more bitcoins off the bitcoins I would invest. If everything worked out, everything would've been dandy and I would've appreciated and respected your representation of HashFast and my best interests as your sub. Given the hashrate then and the purported efficiency of the Golden Nonce chip, if I were able to be the first to mine I would've made bank. Along with their guarantees of a miner protection program and BTC refunds and absolute and definite wording that they'd deliver by October 20-30, I felt it was worth the risk.

Now, come a few months later when they did not deliver, I was not about to let them ream me of the bitcoins I put down. In January, there would've been no hope to ROI positively given KNC miners, and with their broken promises, violation of the FTC mail-order cancellation rule, a dollar refund at that point in January, had I taken their dollar settlement where that scumbag Ettinger also wanted me to give up my rights to sue in addition to their obligation to me to return the sole form of payment they took that I gave them, I would've only been about to recover 1/6-1/8 the bitcoins I had put down by purchasing them again. No way.

Now I don't blame you for HashFast's behavior or any of that, and yes, you did advise me to take the refund in January and from your perspective that would've been the safest option given the circumstances and revelations that have developed up to that point so I respect that, but speaking objectively, if one were to follow the advice you gave regarding HashFast, unfortunately, they would've lost a lot of money/time.

[cypherdoc]

That reminds me of when you were using the '$' unit identifier on the unitless USDX metric.  Quite unbecoming of a macro-economic guru who confidently predicts that BTC will be the new worlds reserve currency.

I don't recall your ever thanking me for inducing you to finally stop embarrassing yourself on a daily basis.  Possibly I just missed it though.

source please?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg903068#msg903068

the only one embarrassing himself is you bud.  the BTC/gold metric has skyrocketed since this thread began all the while you hyping gold.  your negative returns on gold must hurt.

and btw, please provide several quotes of you being so bullish on BTC back near the bottom in 2011.  

I'm tired of doing all the work for you.  Learn to write a scraper and use grep if you want to solve some of your research deficiencies.

BTW, the 'cold storage via Android' conversation which merged into my learning that addresses do have a checksum after all got going around Jan 27 or this year and lasted a few days.  Eventually you did back-track and say that you didn't really store that much on your person and could not send off your you stash within on minute.  Which effectively made my point.

ok, here's the link. everyone can make their own conclusions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg4805116#msg4805116

[cypherdoc]

as far as my subs were concerned, they were offered a choice, buy a miner or don't.  nothing was forced upon them.  everyone has to do their own research and calculations and consider their own circumstances.  it's like all the other advice i give in the newsletter; you can choose to follow or not.  vokain above forgot to mention that in January i recommended to him personally via email that he get a refund while he had the opportunity to get one; he declined to do so and we see the results of that.

This was my choice and that's fine, I stand by that and I hope the bankruptcy will proceed okay, though I've never been part of this shit before... but on the bright side it's been a stimulating game so far. But anyway, in the interests of being forthright I have to clarify this above statement. Cypherdoc, you were a compensated representative of Hashfast at one point. There was some conflict of interest in the trust your subscribers had for you and your affiliation with that company though our end goals and interests were more or less aligned.

this is why in sentence #1 of my endorsement on day 1 i openly revealed that i was being paid.  despite that, i truly thought the stars were aligned on this company (Silicon Valley, Simon)

Regardless, the whole point of purchasing miners at that point was so that I could make more bitcoins off the bitcoins I would invest. If everything worked out, everything would've been dandy and I would've appreciated and respected your representation of HashFast and my best interests as your sub. Given the hashrate then and the purported efficiency of the Golden Nonce chip, if I were able to be the first to mine I would've made bank. Along with their guarantees of a miner protection program and BTC refunds and absolute and definite wording that they'd deliver by October 20-30, I felt it was worth the risk.

i agree.  i was order#1 with a bunch on order myself. 

Now, come a few months later when they did not deliver, I was not about to let them ream me of the bitcoins I put down. In January, there would've been no hope to ROI positively given KNC miners, and with their broken promises, violation of the FTC mail-order cancellation rule, a dollar refund at that point in January, had I taken their dollar settlement where that scumbag Ettinger also wanted me to give up my rights to sue in addition to their obligation to me to return the sole form of payment they took that I gave them, I would've only been about to recover 1/6-1/8 the bitcoins I had put down by purchasing them again. No way.

Now I don't blame you for HashFast's behavior or any of that, and yes, you did advise me to take the refund in January and from your perspective that would've been the safest option given the circumstances and revelations that have developed up to that point so I respect that, but speaking objectively, if one were to follow the advice you gave regarding HashFast, unfortunately, they would've lost a lot of money/time.

yes, this is true and i clearly misjudged their ability to perform. 

[tvbcof]

I've never mined though I own a couple of those ASIC USB devices as novelties.  I'll let you in on a little secret as to why since I like you:  It's fucking stupid!

your problem is you think that the mining hashrate will only go in one direction (up forever) and that what is right now will never change.

In point of fact, I said exactly the opposite.  I said that at some points it will be non-profitable to mine except in special circumstances and at these times it will be a rediculous argument that miners will switch pools.  They'll shut down.  One doesn't exactly need a graduate degree in economics to understand that.

And I said that you jumping around like a monkey pointing at a chart which showed basically nothing was silly.

 and as i said above, you see mining as one dimensional (fast buck) w/o considering all the other motivations for ppl to mine.  it's quite possible that the hashrate will level off or even drop at some point making mining more profitable for those who aren't profitable currently while at the same time keeping it more decentralized.  or maybe not.  the point is we don't know.  i choose to position myself with maximum diversity in regards to mining.  i don't have a lot invested in equipment and i try to keep my costs down.  but that's just me.  you choose to ignore it but at the cost of not understanding it.

according to this, mining revenue is going back up:  https://blockchain.info/charts/miners-revenue

therefore, i personally have decided to keep mining and as i said it is profitable for me.  it may not be for others who have higher costs.  so for you to blanket say that mining is "fucking stupid" is stupid and ignores all sorts of other variables.  it's a personal decision.

as far as my subs were concerned, they were offered a choice, buy a miner or don't.  nothing was forced upon them.  everyone has to do their own research and calculations and consider their own circumstances.  it's like all the other advice i give in the newsletter; you can choose to follow or not.  vokain above forgot to mention that in January i recommended to him personally via email that he get a refund while he had the opportunity to get one; he declined to do so and we see the results of that.

Ah that's right.  Blame the victim.  Although you are pretty clearly highly self-interested I never suspected you of being an outright scammer.  Blaming the victim is often associated with scammers though.

i'm glad that you think that i wield so much influence.  it's flattering.  keep trying hard to undermine that.

Gee, trolling on a thread set up for trolling.  Who could have seen that coming?  Anyway you seem to be adept at undermining whatever influence you might have all by yourself.  ('Magic Nonce'?  LOL!)

 -edit:  or I guess 'Golden Nonce Chip' now that I look back.  Either way it's a real hoot.