Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[zeetubes]

Yeah but what if someone swaps out your bitcoins for fake ones 

That is going to be the ultimate sting. maybe it will happen one day. I've often heard the less technically savvy gold bugs asking what will happen to bitcoins if the internet/power grid goes down. But if we lose the internet and power grid, how the hell will you be able to test if the gold someone is offering you isn't really tungsten? I like the old westerns where someone bites into a gold coin but I'm not sure if it's a good way to test.

[Dusty]

From Data Mining Reveals the Factors Driving the Price of Bitcoins :
[...]
But to dig more deeply, he also used a technique called wavelet coherence analysis to look for correlations between the price of bitcoins and other currencies such as the U.S. dollar and the Chinese renminbi as well as with the price of gold, a traditional safe haven for investors in times of trouble.
[...]
His analysis also found no evidence that investors use Bitcoin as a safe haven like gold.
[...]


If that's true, that means that when Bitcoin will be used as a safe haven, his price will be 1000x

[cypherdoc]

From Data Mining Reveals the Factors Driving the Price of Bitcoins :
[...]
But to dig more deeply, he also used a technique called wavelet coherence analysis to look for correlations between the price of bitcoins and other currencies such as the U.S. dollar and the Chinese renminbi as well as with the price of gold, a traditional safe haven for investors in times of trouble.
[...]
His analysis also found no evidence that investors use Bitcoin as a safe haven like gold.
[...]


If that's true, that means that when Bitcoin will be used as a safe haven, his price will be 1000x

the overwhelming evidence based on several commentators in this thread prove that his conclusion is incorrect.

[cypherdoc]

Governments do not own “their” citizens or the territory of their country.

http://www.compasscayman.com/cfr/2013/07/12/Why-financial-privacy-/#.U5MB-i6VVUA.twitter

[vokain]

Governments do not own “their” citizens or the territory of their country.

http://www.compasscayman.com/cfr/2013/07/12/Why-financial-privacy-/#.U5MB-i6VVUA.twitter

there's quite a bit of alternative opinion that claims that your SSN is a claim by the US on its citizens.

http://www.mind-trek.com/practicl/tl17b.htm

The Social Security number is an important weapon in the hands of the territorial gangsters (people who use deception, fraud, coercion, and terror to claim "jurisdiction" (so-called) over people who happen to be in a certain geographic territory). Territorial gangsters (TGs) love to create systems that enable them to dominate and control their victims so they can live off the fruit of their labor like parasites or cannibals. They use the Social Security number to keep track of their victims. Other agencies, such as Credit Bureaus and Banks, also use the Social Security number (SS#) to identify people.

The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution created a creature called a "U.S. citizen" - euphemism for victim or slave. U.S. citizens are subject to federal and other statutory jurisdiction. The TGs took many other steps to turn individuals into victims or slaves. One of these steps was the introduction of the Social Security system. Practically all these steps have been flagrantly fraudulent. The TGs like to operate on the basis that because you've applied for their SS# (and stated on the application that you're a "U.S. Citizen"), you are their slave and they own you and can tell you what to do or what not to do. They won't put it this way, but this is the basis on which they operate.

[Adrian-x]

How much gold is that? Does anyone realistically own that much? I was told filling up a 2L bottle with gold dust would make it weigh 40kg.

I could believe that I would hedge 10% of my Bitcoin fortunes to gold in the next 10x upmove. For every BTC10k it'd mean the sale of BTC1k, multiplied by about $5000...

For $5M you get 125 kg of gold.

Certainly there are people who own a tonne of gold (1/180,000 of the gold stock) but they are fewer in number. It is much easier to buy 1/180,000 of all BTC, since that can be done by investing a manageable $44k...

What if you could go to Africa to buy some at a low low price of $989.31/oz? It's an instant steal...

I think you meant steel,

[majamalu]

I think Mish is just one of the many knowledgeable personas who "want" to like bitcoin but can't simply because it might be perceived as too radical.  So I think as more "experts" capitulate, it will give further permission to other experts to capitulate too. 

We are herd animals.

May be James Turk's capitulation have already had an effect on Mish & Co.

[jeffersonairplane]

Gold will make a comeback soon. It won't loose a chunk of it's value in a matter of days.

[cypherdoc]

Gold will make a comeback soon. It won't loose a chunk of it's value in a matter of days.

as i said, i covered my short just in time. but this is a short term dead cat bounce from a daily cyclical bottom which should fail once again.  the long term cyclical top was back in Sept 2011.

[ErisDiscordia]

the long term cyclical top was back in Sept 2011.

I am still not ready to believe this. I tend to think that we are now in the bear trap phase on the infamous "anatomy of a bubble" chart and the final run-up in gold is still to come.

After that happens I think gold will ultimately deflate as it will lose most of its monetary premium to crypto.

[adamstgBit]

the long term cyclical top was back in Sept 2011.

I am still not ready to believe this. I tend to think that we are now in the bear trap phase on the infamous "anatomy of a bubble" chart and the final run-up in gold is still to come.

After that happens I think gold will ultimately deflate as it will lose most of its monetary premium to crypto.

no chance

obvious peak is obvious.

15$ silver coming soon, bottom at 13.8, maybe lower... and its not like its going to jump 200% after bottoming, historicaly PM hardly keep up with infaltion.

coin collecting isn't an investment, its a hobby.

[tvbcof]

the long term cyclical top was back in Sept 2011.

I am still not ready to believe this. I tend to think that we are now in the bear trap phase on the infamous "anatomy of a bubble" chart and the final run-up in gold is still to come.

After that happens I think gold will ultimately deflate as it will lose most of its monetary premium to crypto.

no chance

obvious peak is obvious.

15$ silver coming soon, bottom at 13.8, maybe lower... and its not like its going to jump 200% after bottoming, historicaly PM hardly keep up with infaltion.

coin collecting isn't an investment, its a hobby.

'coin collecting' as you call it has been a mighty lucrative hobby for me.  Not as lucrative as my Bitcoin hobby though, that's for sure (especially if one cancels out the first half of 2014 which has been a something of a joner in bitcoinland.)

[zeetubes]

"obvious peak is obvious."

Nothing in the current markets is obvious unless you work for Goldman Sachs (of shit) or the Fed. Silver could obviously be driven lower but not for any logical reasons involving supply and demand. If the new iphone outsells android phones then it wouldn't be obvious to state that apple shares should drop 20%.

[adamstgBit]

"obvious peak is obvious."

Nothing in the current markets is obvious unless you work for Goldman Sachs (of shit) or the Fed. Silver could obviously be driven lower but not for any logical reasons involving supply and demand. If the new iphone outsells android phones then it wouldn't be obvious to state that apple shares should drop 20%.

idk

i'm relatively sure PM was in a bubble. I don't buy that "they" are totally warping the "paper price", banks shorted the PM bubble thats not manipulation thats just good trading...

[jeffersonairplane]

It could easily flip to be perfectly honest. I would bet that it will in the near future.

[zeetubes]

"obvious peak is obvious."

Nothing in the current markets is obvious unless you work for Goldman Sachs (of shit) or the Fed. Silver could obviously be driven lower but not for any logical reasons involving supply and demand. If the new iphone outsells android phones then it wouldn't be obvious to state that apple shares should drop 20%.

idk

i'm relatively sure PM was in a bubble. I don't buy that "they" are totally warping the "paper price", banks shorted the PM bubble thats not manipulation thats just good trading...

I don't know either. I don't work in that side of finance. But it seems to me that current and recent silver demand is more than mine supply and silver's industrial application is still strong. If more people buy BTC than sell then the price goes up but who knows for how long until the big players get involved and start bending the BTC market. Did you read about the recent "mini puke" of the gold fix at Barclays? Supposedly of course a one-off event but if so why does it have a commonly known name? Also why are gold and silver the only commodities (i know of) to have a daily fix? All interesting stuff.

[NewLiberty]

"obvious peak is obvious."

Nothing in the current markets is obvious unless you work for Goldman Sachs (of shit) or the Fed. Silver could obviously be driven lower but not for any logical reasons involving supply and demand. If the new iphone outsells android phones then it wouldn't be obvious to state that apple shares should drop 20%.

idk

i'm relatively sure PM was in a bubble. I don't buy that "they" are totally warping the "paper price", banks shorted the PM bubble thats not manipulation thats just good trading...

You do know that your taxes pay for their ability to do that manipulation?
The bullion banks own the Federal Reserve, which has as its charter the manipulation of the value of money.
The fed has socialized it debt burden as a part of the TARP deal, so taxpayers are liable for the loss if it goes against them, but they get the gains if its a win.

So call it good trading, or manipulation or whatever moniker you like, the facts are that the trade is backed by the taxability of the US citizenry, which is backed by the ability to imprison any who don't pay whatever tax they decide to levy.

[wachtwoord]

"obvious peak is obvious."

Nothing in the current markets is obvious unless you work for Goldman Sachs (of shit) or the Fed. Silver could obviously be driven lower but not for any logical reasons involving supply and demand. If the new iphone outsells android phones then it wouldn't be obvious to state that apple shares should drop 20%.

idk

i'm relatively sure PM was in a bubble. I don't buy that "they" are totally warping the "paper price", banks shorted the PM bubble thats not manipulation thats just good trading...

You do know that your taxes pay for their ability to do that manipulation?
The bullion banks own the Federal Reserve, which has as its charter the manipulation of the value of money.
The fed has socialized it debt burden as a part of the TARP deal, so taxpayers are liable for the loss if it goes against them, but they get the gains if its a win.

So call it good trading, or manipulation or whatever moniker you like, the facts are that the trade is backed by the taxability of the US citizenry, which is backed by the ability to imprison any who don't pay whatever tax they decide to levy.

And all of this is hidden in plain sight. Throughout history this has been the best hiding place.

[blade87]

Gold collapsing? I don't follow the metal prices. Link?

ya i agree gold is due for a Major correction.

Gold Line keeps calling me telling me its not a bubble ...

Oh my... far too slow. I'll stay in crypto thank you very much.  

At least I'll know where to put some of my crypto wealth in a few years (or maybe a decade) for the long long.

[okthen]

Gold collapsing? I don't follow the metal prices. Link?

ya i agree gold is due for a Major correction.

Gold Line keeps calling me telling me its not a bubble ...

Oh my... far too slow. I'll stay in crypto thank you very much.  

At least I'll know where to put some of my crypto wealth in a few years (or maybe a decade) for the long long.

Yes indeed, gold seems like an extremely boring thing to own 
I know it's said volatility is bad for btc etc etc, but it sure makes it interesting!