Scientific proof that God exists?

[IadixDev]

Too many maybes and ifs and no proof of anything. What is the point of beveling in any of it. There is one thing that is true, we are all going to die. Evidence suggests that dying is the end, there is no afterlife, no heaven, no anything, just death. Why waste your time believing in nonsense which deep down you know it's not true.

Maybe because it's not about believing in afterlife .

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[qwik2learn]

Too many maybes and ifs and no proof of anything. What is the point of beveling in any of it. There is one thing that is true, we are all going to die. Evidence suggests that dying is the end, there is no afterlife, no heaven, no anything, just death. Why waste your time believing in nonsense which deep down you know it's not true.

Maybe because it's not about believing in afterlife .

Actually all the evidence suggests that consciousness is cyclical and tht survival of the personality after death is a real phenomenon with implications for spirituality.
See for yourself over 100 points of evidence in support of the survival hypothesis:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg19301374#msg19301374

[Przemax]

Check out the scientific lee youtube channel for solid experimental physics. What is wrong with todays physics is thats its purely theoretical garbage.

I checked few video of the channel, to me it mostly looks like non sensical doodling with background music with a pompous guy pretending he had some revealed truth from God who dont seem to make much sense at all.

At best a grotesque parody from genius wanabe who dont have much clue of anything.

I dont see even much experiment worth mentioning, or anything that can really explain much physics at all.

Yes that is sad. He is bad at explaining things. And yes, his attitude is awfuly iritating.

Its hard to make sense of what he is talking about other than:

 He is telling us that energy has phases. Those phases are fibbonaci sequenced and double helix spiral based. Its basicly a weakening in force double helix spiral like in the DNA until it gives a cut and start a new sequence. The product of the cut is RNA. Cutting is magnetic 90 arc based toward the electrical double helix energy flow. And that all energy is electric based and that therefor God is a lord of the host of electromagnetic radiation ranging from very low to very high frequencies.

But the most important thing he says is that a matter follows energy which is actually a nicely indicated and evidenced in his videos. But yes, its nightmare to watch his videos. Matter does not produce energy. The burning may produce the radiation, but this radiation requires the flow of energy to be redirected from the air full of aether and oxygen.

He sadly think its a lot more than that. Maybe it is. Its a lot to make official science questioning its dogmas. But its not self explanatory of what to make out of it imho.

Breath of life is some kind of progressive or regressive music that is made by the God double helix harp or such an instrument if I am to be poetical.

Tesla was still a lot into mathematics and algebra, not just doodling non sense on a paper talking to god. He was also mathematics genius.

He was into differential calculus, complex numbers, and all those math to solve electro magnetic equations, working with alternative current, cyclic equation, polyphase currents and stuff like that. All plain mathematics. Formalized by maxwell too.

I have not said that mathematics are not useful. It is very much useful but:

I don't remember who had told it but some smart guy had told something like that - As long as science rely only on mathematical model, we cannot be sure that this model has any relation to the real world.

If it does - wonderful. But not every equation is in relation to reality.

F. Bacon was right about human mind not needing wings but lead.

Originally mathematics is not something that is forced in people mind as some kind of dogma.

It's just whenever scientist try to get a meaning into ratio of things in nature, proportion of living things like da vinci, harmonious architecture, what make music harmonious, it's always through mathematics and study of numbers.

The first known to grab this in all the depth was probably Pythagoras, who coined sacred geometry, music scale, found many ratio in nature, Fibonacci sequence and all those stuff.

Mathematics is just everywhere in nature, all advance in understanding law of nature and classical art, are made through study of mathematics and number ratio.

Including Tesla work on alternative current, electro magetism, induction & all.

Yes. We can agree that the dogma is something we both despise. Yes its the dogmatic character of the current science that is the problem, not the use of mathematics. Thank you for making it more simple and correct. Its awkward to make someone enemy of mathematics. Noone is. And thats abused. People think - if noone disagrees with mathematics lets sell everything using numbers. And they will buy everything. And thats just outragous how dogmas are sold, especially the hindu ones as mathematical jargon.

Maybe because it's not about believing in afterlife .

Yes it is not. Its the catholic church dogma had make it like so. Its all about the oldest pursuit of humankind - finding the meaning of it all.

I think it's why there is always this sense of gravity in the tone when they condamn king and rulers and injonct to follow path of wisdom, most likely because the meaning was already known before the new testament.

Yes the meaning of new testament were known before it. In the book of Jeremiah as the most clear example.

When Jesus asked who am I? He was guessed to be Jeremiah or Elijah or some other people with similiar message.

Everything was already known. The problem is not the knowledge, but agreement upon it. So yes I am ready to believe the message of old and new testament was waaaaaaaaaay before hand known and rejected.

Most of the concept involved in Genesis are completely inspired from summerian/babylonian science of the time, when translated properly from hebrew taking in account historical context.

Need to take in account there was always political struggle in those societies between the tyranic Kings condamned in the bible and scholars who were often pariah or shunned by the Mainstream politics because of being critics of it. The bible is often implicitly quoting directly this wisdom from the scholars, and take the same position as them against the "bad" "tyranic" kings, with mostly the same arguments and rethoric.

Bible is about what God like, what God hates, what God expects and what God do. Its not about the history. Please do not secularise the Bible. One should separate the two message and not make it into one. Its wrong as Jesus had said:

So they brought it, and He asked them, “Whose likeness is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they answered. 17Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” And they marveled at Him. 18

Mark 12:16-18

And that the kingdoms of this world belongs to Satan that wants to sift humanity.

So in other words give satan what belongs to satan - weeds and sins. Unimportant garbage and give your tresures to God. Do not give your seed to Satan in other words.

[Astargath]

Check out the scientific lee youtube channel for solid experimental physics. What is wrong with todays physics is thats its purely theoretical garbage.

I checked few video of the channel, to me it mostly looks like non sensical doodling with background music with a pompous guy pretending he had some revealed truth from God who dont seem to make much sense at all.

At best a grotesque parody from genius wanabe who dont have much clue of anything.

I dont see even much experiment worth mentioning, or anything that can really explain much physics at all.

Yes that is sad. He is bad at explaining things. And yes, his attitude is awfuly iritating.

Its hard to make sense of what he is talking about other than:

 He is telling us that energy has phases. Those phases are fibbonaci sequenced and double helix spiral based. Its basicly a weakening in force double helix spiral like in the DNA until it gives a cut and start a new sequence. The product of the cut is RNA. Cutting is magnetic 90 arc based toward the electrical double helix energy flow. And that all energy is electric based and that therefor God is a lord of the host of electromagnetic radiation ranging from very low to very high frequencies.

But the most important thing he says is that a matter follows energy which is actually a nicely indicated and evidenced in his videos. But yes, its nightmare to watch his videos. Matter does not produce energy. The burning may produce the radiation, but this radiation requires the flow of energy to be redirected from the air full of aether and oxygen.

He sadly think its a lot more than that. Maybe it is. Its a lot to make official science questioning its dogmas. But its not self explanatory of what to make out of it imho.

Breath of life is some kind of progressive or regressive music that is made by the God double helix harp or such an instrument if I am to be poetical.

Tesla was still a lot into mathematics and algebra, not just doodling non sense on a paper talking to god. He was also mathematics genius.

He was into differential calculus, complex numbers, and all those math to solve electro magnetic equations, working with alternative current, cyclic equation, polyphase currents and stuff like that. All plain mathematics. Formalized by maxwell too.

I have not said that mathematics are not useful. It is very much useful but:

I don't remember who had told it but some smart guy had told something like that - As long as science rely only on mathematical model, we cannot be sure that this model has any relation to the real world.

If it does - wonderful. But not every equation is in relation to reality.

F. Bacon was right about human mind not needing wings but lead.

Originally mathematics is not something that is forced in people mind as some kind of dogma.

It's just whenever scientist try to get a meaning into ratio of things in nature, proportion of living things like da vinci, harmonious architecture, what make music harmonious, it's always through mathematics and study of numbers.

The first known to grab this in all the depth was probably Pythagoras, who coined sacred geometry, music scale, found many ratio in nature, Fibonacci sequence and all those stuff.

Mathematics is just everywhere in nature, all advance in understanding law of nature and classical art, are made through study of mathematics and number ratio.

Including Tesla work on alternative current, electro magetism, induction & all.

Yes. We can agree that the dogma is something we both despise. Yes its the dogmatic character of the current science that is the problem, not the use of mathematics. Thank you for making it more simple and correct. Its awkward to make someone enemy of mathematics. Noone is. And thats abused. People think - if noone disagrees with mathematics lets sell everything using numbers. And they will buy everything. And thats just outragous how dogmas are sold, especially the hindu ones as mathematical jargon.

Maybe because it's not about believing in afterlife .

Yes it is not. Its the catholic church dogma had make it like so. Its all about the oldest pursuit of humankind - finding the meaning of it all.

I think it's why there is always this sense of gravity in the tone when they condamn king and rulers and injonct to follow path of wisdom, most likely because the meaning was already known before the new testament.

Yes the meaning of new testament were known before it. In the book of Jeremiah as the most clear example.

When Jesus asked who am I? He was guessed to be Jeremiah or Elijah or some other people with similiar message.

Everything was already known. The problem is not the knowledge, but agreement upon it. So yes I am ready to believe the message of old and new testament was waaaaaaaaaay before hand known and rejected.

Most of the concept involved in Genesis are completely inspired from summerian/babylonian science of the time, when translated properly from hebrew taking in account historical context.

Need to take in account there was always political struggle in those societies between the tyranic Kings condamned in the bible and scholars who were often pariah or shunned by the Mainstream politics because of being critics of it. The bible is often implicitly quoting directly this wisdom from the scholars, and take the same position as them against the "bad" "tyranic" kings, with mostly the same arguments and rethoric.

Bible is about what God like, what God hates, what God expects and what God do. Its not about the history. Please do not secularise the Bible. One should separate the two message and not make it into one. Its wrong as Jesus had said:

So they brought it, and He asked them, “Whose likeness is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they answered. 17Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” And they marveled at Him. 18

Mark 12:16-18

And that the kingdoms of this world belongs to Satan that wants to sift humanity.

So in other words give satan what belongs to satan - weeds and sins. Unimportant garbage and give your tresures to God. Do not give your seed to Satan in other words.

You type a lot but you say so little. You are just trying to convince yourself at this point but you know deep inside all this, is just blind faith in 1 of the many man made religions that were created to explain things that we didn't know back then. Wake up to reality

[Przemax]

You type a lot but you say so little. You are just trying to convince yourself at this point but you know deep inside all this, is just blind faith in 1 of the many man made religions that were created to explain things that we didn't know back then. Wake up to reality

Atheism is not a default possition, so its logical that the only person that need to convince themselves out of a default possition is you.

There is no such a thing as a blind faith. Every faith has some merit in it. Even a faith in authority. Authority to be worth faith need to be at least charismatic.

Yes I had typed a lot, because the subject is a lot more complicated than you try to make it. Science does not have the answers for everything. If you think it does you believe in scientism. And its stronger faith than I have in my believes I would say.

What is that any religion says and science answers better. I challange you to find one.

And yes. Religions are dogmatic. I try to not have dogmas. Im open to any conclusions as long as its logical. I was hearing a debate of sikh with a muslim, and as I had found muslim to be dogmatic and nitpicking, the message of sikh was very close to the message of Christ. I don't agree upon meditation, but.... he at least understand that a prayer to the Lord is valid for me, not a meditation. But yes there are milion kinds of meditation, maybe some are valid. I do not know. I know some are very toxic.

[Astargath]

You type a lot but you say so little. You are just trying to convince yourself at this point but you know deep inside all this, is just blind faith in 1 of the many man made religions that were created to explain things that we didn't know back then. Wake up to reality

Atheism is not a default possition, so its logical that the only person that need to convince themselves out of a default possition is you.

There is no such a thing as a blind faith. Every faith has some merit in it. Even a faith in authority. Authority to be worth faith need to be at least charismatic.

Yes I had typed a lot, because the subject is a lot more complicated than you try to make it. Science does not have the answers for everything. If you think it does you believe in scientism. And its stronger faith than I have in my believes I would say.

What is that any religion says and science answers better. I challange you to find one.

And yes. Religions are dogmatic. I try to not have dogmas. Im open to any conclusions as long as its logical. I was hearing a debate of sikh with a muslim, and as I had found muslim to be dogmatic and nitpicking, the message of sikh was very close to the message of Christ. I don't agree upon meditation, but.... he at least understand that a prayer to the Lord is valid for me, not a meditation. But yes there are milion kinds of meditation, maybe some are valid. I do not know. I know some are very toxic.

The universe coming to it’s current state in six days, talking snakes, humans being formed from clay or out of the rib of other humans, women having children but staying virgin, people being resurrected after days of being dead. None of which you see happening today, of course. In fact, there is never any explanation of anything in the bible. They are just statements, it never explained what god is or how god was formed or how god created anything so you could say the bible doesn't really answer anything in the first place.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

[Przemax]

You type a lot but you say so little. You are just trying to convince yourself at this point but you know deep inside all this, is just blind faith in 1 of the many man made religions that were created to explain things that we didn't know back then. Wake up to reality

Atheism is not a default possition, so its logical that the only person that need to convince themselves out of a default possition is you.

There is no such a thing as a blind faith. Every faith has some merit in it. Even a faith in authority. Authority to be worth faith need to be at least charismatic.

Yes I had typed a lot, because the subject is a lot more complicated than you try to make it. Science does not have the answers for everything. If you think it does you believe in scientism. And its stronger faith than I have in my believes I would say.

What is that any religion says and science answers better. I challange you to find one.

And yes. Religions are dogmatic. I try to not have dogmas. Im open to any conclusions as long as its logical. I was hearing a debate of sikh with a muslim, and as I had found muslim to be dogmatic and nitpicking, the message of sikh was very close to the message of Christ. I don't agree upon meditation, but.... he at least understand that a prayer to the Lord is valid for me, not a meditation. But yes there are milion kinds of meditation, maybe some are valid. I do not know. I know some are very toxic.

The universe coming to it’s current state in six days, talking snakes, humans being formed from clay or out of the rib of other humans, women having children but staying virgin, people being resurrected after days of being dead. None of which you see happening today, of course. In fact, there is never any explanation of anything in the bible. They are just statements, it never explained what god is or how god was formed or how god created anything so you could say the bible doesn't really answer anything in the first place.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

How did a universe come to a current state - don't tell me evolution. Its a faith that is more dogmatic than any religion. So why you say "science" knows better?

Talking snakes. You seem to have problem with that apparently. Ok science says correctly that snakes can't talk. That seems true. The only problem is that this "snake" is something like a ghost, its not material. Science does not say that ghosts does not exist. Have science an answer of why we have internal struggle and temptations? No. So why you say that science knows better?

Human beings are mainly water, organic material out of carbon and dirt. Take out the water and carbon and you have dirt. Have science made human? Does science knows how to create life? No. So why you say science knows better?

By the way, the organic material is just a storage of energy. There need to be input of energy to make an organic material like sugars and proteins. So why is it wrong to say that energy=god has created humans out of unorganic dirt? As its only a stored energy animated by energy with a sense of being and intelligence= a breath of life, soul. Can science make artifical intelligence? I bet they will not in millions of years.

Women having children but staying virgin. Its nowhere in the bible. But science would be wrong saying that it is impossible.

People being resurrected after days of being dead. Ok. So science have the answer what is life and death? No it does not.

Bible answers 3 questions that science can not, at least for now. What is life and death, what is the meaning of it and how did it begun.

Science is not to be believed, but you believe that science have answers to my questions. That is scientism. Science is not something to be believed, and yet you believe a lot of things as most atheists do.

Its normal. People need to believe that for example they will not die choking in their sleep. That requires some faith.

[Astargath]

You type a lot but you say so little. You are just trying to convince yourself at this point but you know deep inside all this, is just blind faith in 1 of the many man made religions that were created to explain things that we didn't know back then. Wake up to reality

Atheism is not a default possition, so its logical that the only person that need to convince themselves out of a default possition is you.

There is no such a thing as a blind faith. Every faith has some merit in it. Even a faith in authority. Authority to be worth faith need to be at least charismatic.

Yes I had typed a lot, because the subject is a lot more complicated than you try to make it. Science does not have the answers for everything. If you think it does you believe in scientism. And its stronger faith than I have in my believes I would say.

What is that any religion says and science answers better. I challange you to find one.

And yes. Religions are dogmatic. I try to not have dogmas. Im open to any conclusions as long as its logical. I was hearing a debate of sikh with a muslim, and as I had found muslim to be dogmatic and nitpicking, the message of sikh was very close to the message of Christ. I don't agree upon meditation, but.... he at least understand that a prayer to the Lord is valid for me, not a meditation. But yes there are milion kinds of meditation, maybe some are valid. I do not know. I know some are very toxic.

The universe coming to it’s current state in six days, talking snakes, humans being formed from clay or out of the rib of other humans, women having children but staying virgin, people being resurrected after days of being dead. None of which you see happening today, of course. In fact, there is never any explanation of anything in the bible. They are just statements, it never explained what god is or how god was formed or how god created anything so you could say the bible doesn't really answer anything in the first place.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

How did a universe come to a current state - don't tell me evolution. Its a faith that is more dogmatic than any religion. So why you say "science" knows better?

Talking snakes. You seem to have problem with that apparently. Ok science says correctly that snakes can't talk. That seems true. The only problem is that this "snake" is something like a ghost, its not material. Science does not say that ghosts does not exist. Have science an answer of why we have internal struggle and temptations? No. So why you say that science knows better?

Human beings are mainly water, organic material out of carbon and dirt. Take out the water and carbon and you have dirt. Have science made human? Does science knows how to create life? No. So why you say science knows better?

Women having children but staying virgin. Its nowhere in the bible. But science would be wrong saying that it is impossible.

People being resurrected after days of being dead. Ok. So science have the answer what is life and death? No it does not.

Bible answers 3 questions that science can not, at least for now. What is life and death, what is the meaning of it and how did it begun.

The bible does not answer anything, it just states things. You don't seem to udnerstand that. Science has more and more knowledge on how the universe was created, the bible simply states god did it, that's not an explanation, it's a statement. Abiogenesis is getting there, there are successful experiments creating living things from non living matter. Religion does not explain how humans are created, it just states that god did it.

''What is life and death, what is the meaning of it and how did it begun. '' (No it doesn't, it never explained any of it, just statements like all the other religions.) Also the meaning of life is still unclear to me, you live to go to heaven and then what? That's the meaning of life? Seems pretty pointless to me.

[IadixDev]

Yes that is sad. He is bad at explaining things. And yes, his attitude is awfuly iritating.

Its hard to make sense of what he is talking about other than:

 He is telling us that energy has phases. Those phases are fibbonaci sequenced and double helix spiral based. Its basicly a weakening in force double helix spiral like in the DNA until it gives a cut and start a new sequence. The product of the cut is RNA. Cutting is magnetic 90 arc based toward the electrical double helix energy flow. And that all energy is electric based and that therefor God is a lord of the host of electromagnetic radiation ranging from very low to very high frequencies.

But the most important thing he says is that a matter follows energy which is actually a nicely indicated and evidenced in his videos. But yes, its nightmare to watch his videos. Matter does not produce energy. The burning may produce the radiation, but this radiation requires the flow of energy to be redirected from the air full of aether and oxygen.

He sadly think its a lot more than that. Maybe it is. Its a lot to make official science questioning its dogmas. But its not self explanatory of what to make out of it imho.

Breath of life is some kind of progressive or regressive music that is made by the God double helix harp or such an instrument if I am to be poetical.

It's clear that spirals are presents in virtually all ancient tradition, and veda with the swatika and others things are also in incredibly in tune with mathematics and metaphysics.

Cycles are pervasives in all the Vedas.

Spirals are symbol of progression, and connected to Fibonacci in nature like seashells.

The principles at core of relativity explain much better this relation between mater and energy.
 

I don't remember who had told it but some smart guy had told something like that - As long as science rely only on mathematical model, we cannot be sure that this model has any relation to the real world.

riemann said this

Yes. We can agree that the dogma is something we both despise. Yes its the dogmatic character of the current science that is the problem, not the use of mathematics. Thank you for making it more simple and correct. Its awkward to make someone enemy of mathematics. Noone is. And thats abused. People think - if noone disagrees with mathematics lets sell everything using numbers. And they will buy everything. And thats just outragous how dogmas are sold, especially the hindu ones as mathematical jargon.

Pythagoras said numbers are the measure of all things

Yes it is not. Its the catholic church dogma had make it like so. Its all about the oldest pursuit of humankind - finding the meaning of it all.

Catholics are not the first to do this babylonian priest did same.

Yes the meaning of new testament were known before it. In the book of Jeremiah as the most clear example.

When Jesus asked who am I? He was guessed to be Jeremiah or Elijah or some other people with similiar message.

Everything was already known. The problem is not the knowledge, but agreement upon it. So yes I am ready to believe the message of old and new testament was waaaaaaaaaay before hand known and rejected.

Bible is about what God like, what God hates, what God expects and what God do. Its not about the history. Please do not secularise the Bible. One should separate the two message and not make it into one. Its wrong as Jesus had said:

So they brought it, and He asked them, “Whose likeness is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they answered. 17Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” And they marveled at Him. 18

Mark 12:16-18

And that the kingdoms of this world belongs to Satan that wants to sift humanity.

So in other words give satan what belongs to satan - weeds and sins. Unimportant garbage and give your tresures to God. Do not give your seed to Satan in other words.

The problem with Caesar and Rome was not unique or first seen in history.

There are similar stories in ancient India, or egypt and babylon.

Common problem is when rulers and king become too much into materialism, possession, extension of territory, orgies, instead of wisdom.

When looking in precedent for jesus like persons, can see hermes trismegistus, or horus. The myth around horus is actually very close to the myth of jesus. Or king solomon.

And its not that easy to totally disconnect jesus from secularism, as he was still mixed with the pb of King of the jew, and was still rather active into critics of politics and pseudo secularism of the time, even can say large part of his message has to do with the critics of secularism.

[IadixDev]

Wake up to reality

Which reality ? Your's ?

[Przemax]

It's clear that spirals are presents in virtually all ancient tradition, and veda with the swatika and others things are also in incredibly in tune with mathematics and metaphysics.

Cycles are pervasives in all the Vedas.

Spirals are symbol of progression, and connected to Fibonacci in nature like seashells.

I know that. Ancient people were aware of electric universe. At least the priests. Scientific lee is talking about ancient people knowing this.

The principles at core of relativity explain much better this relation between mater and energy.

Honestly? Im sceptical about this whole relativity. But if you insist.

When looking in precedent for jesus like persons, can see hermes trismegistus, or horus. The myth around horus is actually very close to the myth of jesus. Or king solomon.

Hermes? Sorry to say but that names rings - Satanism in my ears lol. Maybe Im ignorant here. Thats my choice. I could guess that the abomination of desolation that speaks about the desecration of the temple speaks about the cult of Hermes. Popular in Greece.

King Solomon? God was not glad about him either. Catholics aka Babylonians ( Im using this term because catholics have veeeeeeeery old traditions, that is almost the same like Anatolian Hittites (cult of Ishtar) some even a looooooot older coming to king Nimrod, the ressurection of Tamuz on december and such) are loving this guy tho.

Are you implying Jesus=Satan? I must strongly oppose here.

"Let no man decieve you". You will not decieve me.

Pythagoras said numbers are the measure of all things Smiley

Well..... God is the judge. So whatever. Pyth might measure, however the God will measure him like he is measuring others.

Common problem is when rulers and king become too much into materialism, possession, extension of territory, orgies, instead of wisdom.

Thats not the message of the Bible. All man are bad. Thats the message of the Bible. Some are more God loving or God fearing people.

The bible does not answer anything, it just states things. You don't seem to udnerstand that. Science has more and more knowledge on how the universe was created, the bible simply states god did it, that's not an explanation, it's a statement. Abiogenesis is getting there, there are successful experiments creating living things from non living matter. Religion does not explain how humans are created, it just states that god did it.

Just like evolution does not answer anything hence - evolution=faith.

Abiogenesis. You mean that by giving energy to dead matter you create batteries called organic carbohydrates? I have said that is evidence for the creationism at best.

Science have more and more theories. I can have millions of theories how to get rich. Am I guaranteed to get rich? No.

[Astargath]

It's clear that spirals are presents in virtually all ancient tradition, and veda with the swatika and others things are also in incredibly in tune with mathematics and metaphysics.

Cycles are pervasives in all the Vedas.

Spirals are symbol of progression, and connected to Fibonacci in nature like seashells.

I know that. Ancient people were aware of electric universe. At least the priests. Scientific lee is talking about ancient people knowing this.

The principles at core of relativity explain much better this relation between mater and energy.

Honestly? Im sceptical about this whole relativity. But if you insist.

When looking in precedent for jesus like persons, can see hermes trismegistus, or horus. The myth around horus is actually very close to the myth of jesus. Or king solomon.

Hermes? Sorry to say but that names rings - Satanism in my ears lol. Maybe Im ignorant here. Thats my choice. I could guess that the abomination of desolation that speaks about the desecration of the temple speaks about the cult of Hermes. Popular in Greece.

King Solomon? God was not glad about him either. Catholics aka Babylonians ( Im using this term because catholics have veeeeeeeery old traditions, that is almost the same like Anatolian Hittites (cult of Ishtar) some even a looooooot older coming to king Nimrod, the ressurection of Tamuz on december and such) are loving this guy tho.

Are you implying Jesus=Satan? I must strongly oppose here.

"Let no man decieve you". You will not decieve me.

Pythagoras said numbers are the measure of all things Smiley

Well..... God is the judge. So whatever. Pyth might measure, however the God will measure him like he is measuring others.

Common problem is when rulers and king become too much into materialism, possession, extension of territory, orgies, instead of wisdom.

Thats not the message of the Bible. All man are bad. Thats the message of the Bible. Some are more God loving or God fearing people.

The bible does not answer anything, it just states things. You don't seem to udnerstand that. Science has more and more knowledge on how the universe was created, the bible simply states god did it, that's not an explanation, it's a statement. Abiogenesis is getting there, there are successful experiments creating living things from non living matter. Religion does not explain how humans are created, it just states that god did it.

Just like evolution does not answer anything hence - evolution=faith.

Abiogenesis. You mean that by giving energy to dead matter you create batteries called organic carbohydrates? I have said that is evidence for the creationism at best.

Science have more and more theories. I can have millions of theories how to get rich. Am I guaranteed to get rich? No.

Evolution provides evidence and then explains it. You know fossils, dna, etc etc. What you mean it doesn't answer anything. It answers how animals are how they are today, because of mutations and natural selection. Sure we don't know exactly how every species of animals evolved at any given time but that's still more than the bible, isn't it?

[IadixDev]

The principles at core of relativity explain much better this relation between mater and energy.

Honestly? Im sceptical about this whole relativity. But if you insist.

There are many bugs in this theory, but the connection made between mater and energy is rather sound. Galileo noticed this too.

When looking in precedent for jesus like persons, can see hermes trismegistus, or horus. The myth around horus is actually very close to the myth of jesus. Or king solomon.

Hermes? Sorry to say but that names rings - Satanism in my ears lol. Maybe Im ignorant here. Thats my choice. I could guess that the abomination of desolation that speaks about the desecration of the temple speaks about the cult of Hermes. Popular in Greece.

King Solomon? God was not glad about him either. Catholics aka Babylonians ( Im using this term because catholics have veeeeeeeery old traditions, that is almost the same like Anatolian Hittites (cult of Ishtar) some even a looooooot older coming to king Nimrod, the ressurection of Tamuz on december and such) are loving this guy tho.

Are you implying Jesus=Satan? I must strongly oppose here.

"Let no man decieve you". You will not decieve me.

Not sure why hermes would be Satanism. The principle of Hermes seem quite in tune with the bible, but there are probably point of divergences.

King Solomon is still seen as among the wisest king. He is still rather recognized as a wisest ruler in the bible as far as i know. He still had issue to be solved, but still did many things right, compared to other Kings.

Pythagoras said numbers are the measure of all things Smiley

Well..... God is the judge. So whatever. Pyth might measure, however the God will measure him like he is measuring others.

God seem to have good judgment in people who have good measure of things he creates

Common problem is when rulers and king become too much into materialism, possession, extension of territory, orgies, instead of wisdom.

Thats not the message of the Bible. All man are bad. Thats the message of the Bible. Some are more God loving or God fearing people.

The bible is still lot about kindgoms of hevean, my kingdom is not on earth, and condamn abuse of materialism and rulers of earth things.

[Przemax]

Evolution provides evidence and then explains it. You know fossils, dna, etc etc. What you mean it doesn't answer anything. It answers how animals are how they are today, because of mutations and natural selection. Sure we don't know exactly how every species of animals evolved at any given time but that's still more than the bible, isn't it?

I suggest you make another topic and give me your best shot at this. Then I make my post and destroy all your claims? How about that.

What do I mean in saying, it does not answer anything? Its just gives story based on wrong assuptions. What is worse in evolution is that I can prove your assumptions being wrong. You can't prove God did not make it.

Everything is always within the same kind. There was no speciation that would produce infertile offspring within a kind. Ofcourse there is a ring specie, but it does not prove anything as it can easily prove creationism as well.

There is a natural selection - I agree. But that is nowhere near to prove evolution, as there is no proven fact of beneficiary mutation that create new specie. I do not mean subspecie like wolf and dog that can breed to give wolfdog, but a mutation that can make dog or any other animal, worm, insect to be unable to reproduce within its kind, even be it thousands of years (even with some species that reproduce fast like insect that are given radioactive isotopes or so).

You believe that - that has not happened - ever. And will not happen. Just like fully sentient AI. Its a wet dream of atheists.

Not sure why hermes would be Satanism. The principle of Hermes seem quite in tune with the bible, but there are probably point of divergences.

Just a secondhand opinion. I had not made my own.

[IadixDev]

You type a lot but you say so little. You are just trying to convince yourself at this point but you know deep inside all this, is just blind faith in 1 of the many man made religions that were created to explain things that we didn't know back then. Wake up to reality

Atheism is not a default possition, so its logical that the only person that need to convince themselves out of a default possition is you.

There is no such a thing as a blind faith. Every faith has some merit in it. Even a faith in authority. Authority to be worth faith need to be at least charismatic.

Yes I had typed a lot, because the subject is a lot more complicated than you try to make it. Science does not have the answers for everything. If you think it does you believe in scientism. And its stronger faith than I have in my believes I would say.

What is that any religion says and science answers better. I challange you to find one.

And yes. Religions are dogmatic. I try to not have dogmas. Im open to any conclusions as long as its logical. I was hearing a debate of sikh with a muslim, and as I had found muslim to be dogmatic and nitpicking, the message of sikh was very close to the message of Christ. I don't agree upon meditation, but.... he at least understand that a prayer to the Lord is valid for me, not a meditation. But yes there are milion kinds of meditation, maybe some are valid. I do not know. I know some are very toxic.  

The universe coming to it’s current state in six days, talking snakes, humans being formed from clay or out of the rib of other humans, women having children but staying virgin, people being resurrected after days of being dead. None of which you see happening today, of course. In fact, there is never any explanation of anything in the bible. They are just statements, it never explained what god is or how god was formed or how god created anything so you could say the bible doesn't really answer anything in the first place.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

The six days of the Genesis are not earth days. The first day was before sun & earth was created.

The snakes and relation to fruit of tree of knowledge is reference to more ancient myth. The snakes in egypt are often associated with wisdom or enlightment. Or intermediate between knowledge / light and human mind.

Like wadjet ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet )

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uraeus

The Uraeus (/jʊˈriəs/;[1] plural Uraei or Uraeuses; from the Greek oὐραῖoς, ouraîos, "on its tail"; from Egyptian jʿr.t (iaret), "rearing cobra") is the stylized, upright form of an Egyptian cobra (asp, serpent, or snake), used as a symbol of sovereignty, royalty, deity and divine authority in ancient Egypt.

The whole old testament is reference to older myth from egypt or babylon.

Tiamat is also one of the ancient myth often refered in old testament.

http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/genesis-1-and-a-babylonian-creation-story

This way to think about the creation of the cosmos was very common in these times.


The thing of death and ressurection also have their own meaning in esoteric / gnostic teaching, the bible make many references to this process, and im pretty sure there will be evidence of this coming from neurology and noetic science in the next decade.

There are already more and more study of this in psychology / psychiatry / neurology.

The meaning of the rib from original hebrew is not that clear either.

[IadixDev]

Too many maybes and ifs and no proof of anything. What is the point of beveling in any of it. There is one thing that is true, we are all going to die. Evidence suggests that dying is the end, there is no afterlife, no heaven, no anything, just death. Why waste your time believing in nonsense which deep down you know it's not true.

Maybe because it's not about believing in afterlife .

Actually all the evidence suggests that consciousness is cyclical and tht survival of the personality after death is a real phenomenon with implications for spirituality.
See for yourself over 100 points of evidence in support of the survival hypothesis:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg19301374#msg19301374

The thing is this matter of afterlife and soul immortality doesnt seem to be a central topic of the bible.

Its more present in things like tibetan book of the dead.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol


The Tibetan text describes, and is intended to guide one through, the experiences that the consciousness has after death, in the bardo, the interval between death and the next rebirth. The text also includes chapters on the signs of death and rituals to undertake when death is closing in or has taken place.

Three bardos   

Main article: Bardo

The Bardo Thodol differentiates the intermediate state between lives into three bardos:

The chikhai bardo or "bardo of the moment of death", which features the experience of the "clear light of reality", or at least the nearest approximation of which one is spiritually capable;

The chonyid bardo or "bardo of the experiencing of reality", which features the experience of visions of various Buddha forms, or the nearest approximations of which one is capable;

The sidpa bardo or "bardo of rebirth", which features karmically impelled hallucinations which eventually result in rebirth, typically yab-yum imagery of men and women passionately entwined.

The Liberation Through Hearing During the Intermediate State also mentions three other bardos:[note 3]

"Life", or ordinary waking consciousness;
"Dhyana" (meditation);
"Dream", the dream state during normal sleep.

Together these "six bardos" form a classification of states of consciousness into six broad types. Any state of consciousness can form a type of "intermediate state", intermediate between other states of consciousness. Indeed, one can consider any momentary state of consciousness a bardo, since it lies between our past and future existences; it provides us with the opportunity to experience reality, which is always present but obscured by the projections and confusions that are due to our previous unskillful actions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo

In some schools of Buddhism, bardo (Tibetan བར་དོ་ Wylie: bar do) or antarabhāva (Sanskrit) is an intermediate, transitional, or liminal state between death and rebirth. It is a concept which arose soon after the Buddha's passing, with a number of earlier Buddhist groups accepting the existence of such an intermediate state, while other schools rejected it. In Tibetan Buddhism, bardo is the central theme of the Bardo Thodol (lit. Liberation Through Hearing During the Intermediate State), the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

[Astargath]

Evolution provides evidence and then explains it. You know fossils, dna, etc etc. What you mean it doesn't answer anything. It answers how animals are how they are today, because of mutations and natural selection. Sure we don't know exactly how every species of animals evolved at any given time but that's still more than the bible, isn't it?

I suggest you make another topic and give me your best shot at this. Then I make my post and destroy all your claims? How about that.

What do I mean in saying, it does not answer anything? Its just gives story based on wrong assuptions. What is worse in evolution is that I can prove your assumptions being wrong. You can't prove God did not make it.

Everything is always within the same kind. There was no speciation that would produce infertile offspring within a kind. Ofcourse there is a ring specie, but it does not prove anything as it can easily prove creationism as well.

There is a natural selection - I agree. But that is nowhere near to prove evolution, as there is no proven fact of beneficiary mutation that create new specie. I do not mean subspecie like wolf and dog that can breed to give wolfdog, but a mutation that can make dog or any other animal, worm, insect to be unable to reproduce within its kind, even be it thousands of years (even with some species that reproduce fast like insect that are given radioactive isotopes or so).

You believe that - that has not happened - ever. And will not happen. Just like fully sentient AI. Its a wet dream of atheists.

Not sure why hermes would be Satanism. The principle of Hermes seem quite in tune with the bible, but there are probably point of divergences.

Just a secondhand opinion. I had not made my own.

And even if they were wrong assumptions, they are still based on something unlike the bible which doesn't provide any type of evidence for anything it claims. You can't prove the flying spaghetti monster didn't do it either.
Read this for all your creationist claims against evolution: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
There is definitely an answer there. Obviously you are just another religious fanatic. You are scared of death, I get it but believing in supernatural nonsense is not going to do you any good.

[IadixDev]

Who is not scared of death lol

I already showed in the other threads that most points in the talk origin link are based on outdated science and innacurate statements.

It more look like some old stuff of the 50's wrote by a guy illetrate in philosophy.

[Przemax]

You are scared of death, I get it but believing in supernatural nonsense is not going to do you any good.

Im more scared of God than of death. I could at least hope to be ressurected, as a true christian knows everyone goes to the same place - emptyness and nothingness until God decides differently.

The music of my life is recorded. Im recorded as a seed of music.

So yes. I will go there were you go - to Sheol. Later on I might be ressurected, or not (made a new, not as undead zombie) in a brand new world where everything is new, New Jerusalem. I have absolutely nothing to lose - you have.

And even if they were wrong assumptions, they are still based on something unlike the bible which doesn't provide any type of evidence for anything it claims.

You clearly are only the believer in what you say... And in that case, you are a blind believer not me, because you ignore there is no proofs while you claim there are. You close your eyes. Thats what I would define a blind believe, you reject the evidences to the contrary. I claim my believe does not have proof -YET, there are only evidences that helps me remain on my faith. There will be the proofs revealed as the Christ had said. Nothing hidden shall remain so.

I should actually thank you, because apriori evolution believers claiming they are aposteriori, are a joke that makes christian believe more in the message of the Lord. You clearly do not know what you talking about.

Read this for all your creationist claims against evolution: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

Listen to Kent Hovind you all evolutionists. You cannot state thats all of my claims, if I was not claiming those are my claims. You are deeply unhonourable and unfair here. You fight with ghosts. Fight with a real champion of creation mr Kent.

Either way I knew evolution was wrong waaaaay before I became a born again christian. So... yeah you do not have to be creationist to be deeply sceptical about whole of the evolution.

The snakes and relation to fruit of tree of knowledge is reference to more ancient myth. The snakes in egypt are often associated with wisdom or enlightment. Or intermediate between knowledge / light and human mind.

If you would know the bigger mythological background, you would know one thing. The snake aka dragon is an axis of conflict between many cultures. One are claiming it is good "deity" others claiming the thunderstruck from heaven is battling it.

So if you would be more sincere you could say, that a snake is the symbol of an adversarial axis - aka the adversary aka Satan.

You seem to claim that the adversary is good. Are you aware of it?

[Astargath]

You are scared of death, I get it but believing in supernatural nonsense is not going to do you any good.

Im more scared of God than of death. I could at least hope to be ressurected, as a true christian knows everyone goes to the same place - emptyness and nothingness until God decides differently.

The music of my life is recorded. Im recorded as a seed of music.

So yes. I will go there were you go - to Sheol. Later on I might be ressurected, or not (made a new, not as undead zombie) in a brand new world where everything is new, New Jerusalem. I have absolutely nothing to lose - you have.

And even if they were wrong assumptions, they are still based on something unlike the bible which doesn't provide any type of evidence for anything it claims.

You clearly are only the believer in what you say... And in that case, you are a blind believer not me, because you ignore there is no proofs while you claim there are. You close your eyes. Thats what I would define a blind believe, you reject the evidences to the contrary. I claim my believe does not have proof -YET, there are only evidences that helps me remain on my faith. There will be the proofs revealed as the Christ had said. Nothing hidden shall remain so.

I should actually thank you, because apriori evolution believers claiming they are aposteriori, are a joke that makes christian believe more in the message of the Lord. You clearly do not know what you talking about.

Read this for all your creationist claims against evolution: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

Listen to Kent Hovind you all evolutionists. You cannot state thats all of my claims, if I was not claiming those are my claims. You are deeply unhonourable and unfair here. You fight with ghosts. Fight with a real champion of creation mr Kent.

Either way I knew evolution was wrong waaaaay before I became a born again christian. So... yeah you do not have to be creationist to be deeply sceptical about whole of the evolution.

The snakes and relation to fruit of tree of knowledge is reference to more ancient myth. The snakes in egypt are often associated with wisdom or enlightment. Or intermediate between knowledge / light and human mind.

If you would know the bigger mythological background, you would know one thing. The snake aka dragon is an axis of conflict between many cultures. One are claiming it is good "deity" others claiming the thunderstruck from heaven is battling it.

So if you would be more sincere you could say, that a snake is the symbol of an adversarial axis - aka the adversary aka Satan.

You seem to claim that the adversary is good. Are you aware of it?

Discovering Dna, finding transitional fossils, matching traits to common ancestors or observing evolution over short timescales like the peppered moth but there are other examples worth pointing out. Our war against bacteria is rapidly producing highly resistant strains, leading to fears of a post-antibiotic era. Similarly, many animals are adapting to pesticides, including fruit flies and even rats. That's blind faith to you? Where is all the evidence for God? Real testable evidence, do you have any? Of course you don't, you said it yourself ''I could at least hope to be ressurected'' and that's why most people believe in what they believe, because of fear to accept reality.