[XMR] Monero Speculation

[primer-]

I'm not going to speculate on the future of Ethereum ring signatures here. Monero already has a working system today - I think it will become more popular once we have more web services using it.

You don't even have a GUI, monero man-child developers (thats how Vitalik calls them) are useless. Way over 50% of hash rate are botnets.
It's dead Jim...  I'm still holding a decent amount (couple tens of thousands) but the first pump that comes along - I'm out.

[smooth]

illodin, your comment did not add to the topic of the discussion and was deleted (along with the reply quoting it).

primer-, can you support that Vitalik actually said what you claimed he said? My intuition is that you can't, it was trolling and not an actual quote, so please stop.

I suggest not to FUD then so the pump has at least a chance of happening. I have a friend who has a friend who also still has some and wants to see one more pump.

[primer-]

illodin, your comment did not add to the topic of the discussion and was deleted (along with the reply quoting it).

He was speculating on if and when another pump might happen. That's perfectly on-topic! Stop censoring speculation topics!
Monero has only seen pumps and dumps, it was never stable above 003 for longer than a couple of weeks. Perfectly on-topic to talk about when to expect another pump, IF EVER!

[dadj]

I'm not going to speculate on the future of Ethereum ring signatures here. Monero already has a working system today - I think it will become more popular once we have more web services using it.

You don't even have a GUI, monero man-child developers (thats how Vitalik calls them) are useless. Way over 50% of hash rate are botnets.
It's dead Jim...  I'm still holding a decent amount (couple tens of thousands) but the first pump that comes along - I'm out.

A GUI isn't as important as a good back-end foundation.

How do you know over 50% of hash rate are botnets?

Even if the majority of miners were botnets, why would that be bad? Free security is still good security.

[fluffypony]

I'm not going to speculate on the future of Ethereum ring signatures here. Monero already has a working system today - I think it will become more popular once we have more web services using it.

You don't even have a GUI, monero man-child developers (thats how Vitalik calls them) are useless. Way over 50% of hash rate are botnets.
It's dead Jim...  I'm still holding a decent amount (couple tens of thousands) but the first pump that comes along - I'm out.

Oh well, I guess I'd better copy-and-paste my comment from Reddit on the state of Ethereum:

On the topic of poor design:

- Vitalik has repeatedly eschewed and ignored commentary from researchers and plowed ahead with poor design decisions.

- Where he hasn't ignored the commentary, he has instead noted it and then layered complexity on top of the bad idea in order to make it workable (complexity is the enemy of secure cryptography and good system design).

- He also repeatedly fails to cite prior research / researchers, which I guess leads some to view him as more than he is, which in turn leads to an inherent trust in a poorly designed system.

- He uses mathematical notation in a completely incorrect manner in formal papers (some of which govern the very inner workings of Ethereum) such that mathematicians are unable to peer review the paper. If you can't understand what he's trying to express, how can you confirm if the concept is valid or the mathematical proof is correct?

- When the above is pointed out to him he (naively or foolishly or disingenuously) claims that the security of the model is "in the code" and not in the mathematical proofs. This bizarre world-view is only dangerous in light of the fact that the system has to at least protect its users somewhat.

On the topic of mismanagement:

- Instead of focusing on a single implementation they instead hired developers to build out at least 4 of the multiple implementations.

- The consequence of this was not only a breaking inter-implementation fork 6 months ago, but also has (as their security auditors put it) "testing needs...more complex than anything we've looked at before".

- They raised $18.4 million, which was almost entirely spent a year later. According to the blog post on the matter they have enough money to make it to June 2016, possibly a little beyond that. That is truly shocking, considering that Ethereum had the 4th highest crowd-funded project funds.

- Instead of biting the bullet and immediately beginning a systematic process of converting the majority of the funds raised into a store of value that would remain relatively stable for the 3-5 years it would take for the project to be built up, they kept the bulk of it in Bitcoin, resulting in a $9 million shortfall on their initial funding amount (when viewed in USD terms).

- Despite promising financial transparency with the money that had been raised, it took them over a year before they suddenly realised they actually needed to come through on that. A startup needn't make their financial activities public at all, but if that is the case then don't promise such transparency. Doing so, and then failing to deliver on that promise, points to incredible mismanagement by individuals that have no clue how to run or build up a company.

[primer-]

Cry me a river pony, Vitalik's project is alive and kicking, yours is about to die soon. 2 years of development and you couldn't code a simple wallet GUI.
Once ethereum developers create ring signature dapp monero will die for good.

[ArticMine]

...

Could you please fix the links in the quotation. Thanks

Edit 1: Here is the original Reddit post with working links. https://www.reddit.com/r/tech/comments/3wgcrz/the_ethereum_computer_securing_your_identity_and/cxwe78p?context=3 Thanks to dEBRUYNE

Edit 2: Links in the original quotation are now fixed.

[primer-]

...

Could you please fix the links in the quotation. Thanks

Edit: Here is the original Reddit post with working links. https://www.reddit.com/r/tech/comments/3wgcrz/the_ethereum_computer_securing_your_identity_and/cxwe78p?context=3 Thanks to dEBRUYNE

Its easy to confuse clueless retards at /r/tech , I'd love to see him post that in /r/ethereum

[phishead]

Cry me a river pony, Vitalik's project is alive and kicking, yours is about to die soon. 2 years of development and you couldn't code a simple wallet GUI.
Once ethereum developers create ring signature dapp monero will die for good.

Well, your immediate emotionally driven post to fluffy's counter argument shows me that you don't necessarily want to weigh out the options and discuss your view point in a mature manner.  Plus it's pretty obvious you didn't even give fluffy's reasonings any chance.  You just seem to be another FUD troll,  and don't bring up any legitimate arguments for your reasoning in wanting to "defend" ethereum.

I'll try and take some time and look at all the links, thanks for the post fluffy.

[fluffypony]

...

Could you please fix the links in the quotation. Thanks

Edit: Here is the original Reddit post with working links. https://www.reddit.com/r/tech/comments/3wgcrz/the_ethereum_computer_securing_your_identity_and/cxwe78p?context=3 Thanks to dEBRUYNE

Fixed

Cry me a river pony, Vitalik's project is alive and kicking, yours is about to die soon. 2 years of development and you couldn't code a simple wallet GUI.
Once ethereum developers create ring signature dapp monero will die for good.

"Alive and kicking" only because it created $18 million in bagholders.

Our unfunded little project has had 1335 commits in the 591 days since we took over as stewards. In that time our 32 contributors have added 283 704 new lines of code, modified 17 388 lines of code, and removed 1056 lines of code.

And we did it for a minuscule fraction of the $18 million raised by Ethereum. But I'm surely preaching to the choir here - as a CEO of a large corporation, you'd surely never let such a phenomenal amount of money be wasted, would you?

[smooth]

illodin, your comment did not add to the topic of the discussion and was deleted (along with the reply quoting it).

He was speculating on if and when another pump might happen.

His post did not in any way address when another pump might happen. That would be on topic at least. It is still there is anyone wants to read it.

I see you have not responded to my request that you document your alleged Vitalik quote. If you can't do so it will be deleted.

[smooth]

Cry me a river pony, Vitalik's project is alive and kicking, yours is about to die soon. 2 years of development and you couldn't code a simple wallet GUI.
Once ethereum developers create ring signature dapp monero will die for good.

Well, your immediate emotionally driven post

Maybe emotionally driven, and maybe he is shorting.

[rpietila]

Monero community is evidently small - the evidence is the <$10 million marketcap. That does not mean we are about to die, however 

If you want to short, come to daddy   

[primer-]

And we did it for a minuscule fraction of the $18 million raised by Ethereum. But I'm surely preaching to the choir here - as a CEO of a large corporation, you'd surely never let such a phenomenal amount of money be wasted, would you?

I don't think money was wasted and neither does Microsoft. Stop feeling butthurt, project you forked from the original ring signatures developers failed.
It happens. Startups/projects that don't succeed in the first two years usually fail.. Next time work harder!

Ethereum has two years to prove its worthiness, so far they are doing great!

[primer-]

Monero community is evidently small - the evidence is the <$10 million marketcap. That does not mean we are about to die, however 

If you want to short, come to daddy   

Risto is Monero's MICROSOFT  Unfortunately his pockets are not as deep 

[fluffypony]

And we did it for a minuscule fraction of the $18 million raised by Ethereum. But I'm surely preaching to the choir here - as a CEO of a large corporation, you'd surely never let such a phenomenal amount of money be wasted, would you?

I don't think money was wasted and neither does Microsoft. Stop feeling butthurt, project you forked from the original ring signatures developers failed.
It happens. Startups/projects that don't succeed in the first two years usually fail.. Next time work harder!

Ethereum has two years to prove its worthiness, so far they are doing great!

So as a CEO of a large company you would be completely fine with what has been done with $18 million? Either your claims of being a CEO is farcical, or you're such a trust fund baby that you have no idea how to value money.

Or, as smooth said, you're shorting.

[ArticMine]

...
Our unfunded little project has had 1335 commits in the 591 days since we took over as stewards. In that time our 32 contributors have added 283 704 new lines of code, modified 17 388 lines of code, and removed 1056 lines of code.
...

Combined with no tagged binary release in over a year.

...
If you want to short, come to daddy    

Something tells me this can be the perfect setup for a brutal short squeeze.

Edit: In this kind of market I am a strong believer in staying long and taking delivery. Taking delivery has been proven to be the most effective method of squeezing the shorts to the wall. In this case, in order to take delivery, this means compiling the Monero software from source on GNU/Linux.

[primer-]

And we did it for a minuscule fraction of the $18 million raised by Ethereum. But I'm surely preaching to the choir here - as a CEO of a large corporation, you'd surely never let such a phenomenal amount of money be wasted, would you?

I don't think money was wasted and neither does Microsoft. Stop feeling butthurt, project you forked from the original ring signatures developers failed.
It happens. Startups/projects that don't succeed in the first two years usually fail.. Next time work harder!

Ethereum has two years to prove its worthiness, so far they are doing great!

So as a CEO of a large company you would be completely fine with what has been done with $18 million? Either your claims of being a CEO is farcical, or you're such a trust fund baby that you have no idea how to value money.

Or, as smooth said, you're shorting.

$18 million sounds like a fortune to you doesn't it ? You run an import/export company with less than 1m annual turnover and you think you're a wiseguy.
How do I know its less than 1m ? You look cheap. Your watch costs $100 or less.

Microsoft does not invest in projects that are unlikely to succeed or are led by amateurs. Vitalik is young, he has the capacity to learn. Ethereum is as revolutionary to cryptocurrency as web was to the internet.

[Globb0]

A lot of conjecture. Rich people aren't rich because they spunk money.

Controlling costs is business 101 not no longer  an problem when you are successful.

The art of business is scaling up without spiraling costs.

[dadj]

And we did it for a minuscule fraction of the $18 million raised by Ethereum. But I'm surely preaching to the choir here - as a CEO of a large corporation, you'd surely never let such a phenomenal amount of money be wasted, would you?

I don't think money was wasted and neither does Microsoft. Stop feeling butthurt, project you forked from the original ring signatures developers failed.
It happens. Startups/projects that don't succeed in the first two years usually fail.. Next time work harder!

Ethereum has two years to prove its worthiness, so far they are doing great!

So as a CEO of a large company you would be completely fine with what has been done with $18 million? Either your claims of being a CEO is farcical, or you're such a trust fund baby that you have no idea how to value money.

Or, as smooth said, you're shorting.

$18 million sounds like a fortune to you doesn't it ? You run an import/export company with less than 1m annual turnover and you think you're a wiseguy.
How do I know its less than 1m ? You look cheap. Your watch costs $100 or less.

Microsoft does not invest in projects that are unlikely to succeed or are led by amateurs. Vitalik is young, he has the capacity to learn. Ethereum is as revolutionary to cryptocurrency as web was to the internet.

Please take your pretentious attitude somewhere else. If you want to proselytise about Ethereum you're in the wrong thread.