SatoshiDICE.com - The World's Most Popular Bitcoin Game

[Carnth]

I've also re-enabled the isLegit check on incoming bets.  This check makes sure the bet is either confirmed and has a tx fee of at least 0.001.

You used the word "etiher" and then "and".  

Do wagers with a fee less than 0.001 BTC still get processed even if they have not yet been included in a block?

My personal experience (after the changes fireduck implemented):
I sent a 15.63 BTC bet, divided among 11 individual bets.

The 15.63 BTC already had 2 confirms went it was sent and had no fees.
After I sent the bet, it was "stalled." It did not show up on the Dice website and checking blockchain.info I could see that the bets were left "unspent."
After my 15.63 BTC bet was confirmed, the Dice website picked up my bet and processed it. At that point I could see that I rolled an 832 (damn lucky) and won all 11 of my bets.
A few of the winning bets showed up in my wallet.
After another block on the BTC network, a few more winning bets were returned.
It took a total of 5 blocks for all of my bets to be returned. I had to be patient, but I was paid back everything I was owed.

Would this change could be what caused my transactions to disappear and not payout?

I am also curious about this. I had sent many bets on Oct 23-24. Some bets had the fees included, some not. I had many many "UNKNOWN" bets waiting to be returned. Even so, some "UNKNOWN" bets were returned to my wallet but never confirmed, even after 20 hours. Then the next day, *poof* many of my bets (wins and losses) were just gone--even from the block chain. Was this a orphaned block (or several orphaned blocks)?

[IXIslimIXI]

I've also re-enabled the isLegit check on incoming bets.  This check makes sure the bet is either confirmed and has a tx fee of at least 0.001.

You used the word "etiher" and then "and".  

Do wagers with a fee less than 0.001 BTC still get processed even if they have not yet been included in a block?

My personal experience (after the changes fireduck implemented):
I sent a 15.63 BTC bet, divided among 11 individual bets.

The 15.63 BTC already had 2 confirms went it was sent and had no fees.
After I sent the bet, it was "stalled." It did not show up on the Dice website and checking blockchain.info I could see that the bets were left "unspent."
After my 15.63 BTC bet was confirmed, the Dice website picked up my bet and processed it. At that point I could see that I rolled an 832 (damn lucky) and won all 11 of my bets.
A few of the winning bets showed up in my wallet.
After another block on the BTC network, a few more winning bets were returned.
It took a total of 5 blocks for all of my bets to be returned. I had to be patient, but I was paid back everything I was owed.

Would this change could be what caused my transactions to disappear and not payout?

I am also curious about this. I had sent many bets on Oct 23-24. Some bets had the fees included, some not. I had many many "UNKNOWN" bets waiting to be returned. Even so, some "UNKNOWN" bets were returned to my wallet but never confirmed, even after 20 hours. Then the next day, *poof* many of my bets (wins and losses) were just gone--even from the block chain. Was this a orphaned block (or several orphaned blocks)?

Glad I'm not the only one... I think some people on here thought I was just some guy who lost all my coins trying to get some freebies. lol

Most of the ones that are missing were winners and this equals up to several hundred dollars. *EDIT to remove unnecessary comments*

I hope other decide to step forward too.

What client were you using? Because I am being told that it is blockchain.info that caused the issue from a build up of non confirmed transactions.

[JWU42]

My blockchain.info transactions have been problematic the last 24 hours 

[evoorhees]

My blockchain.info transactions have been problematic the last 24 hours 

Same here, one of my bets has been stuck for over 24 hours now, sitting at UNKNOWN on SatoshiDice.

This has happened more than normal during the past few days since there have been so many winners it drew down the site's wallet which results in more "snags".  So the good news for you all is that you're kicking the site's ass in terms of winnings recently

[JWU42]

The weird part for me now is the return transaction now only occurs at each new block.  It has been this way for the past 36 hours (+/-)...

Destroys the experience when you are waiting 10+ minutes between bets 

[dooglus]

The weird part for me now is the return transaction now only occurs at each new block.  It has been this way for the past 36 hours (+/-)...

Destroys the experience when you are waiting 10+ minutes between bets 

I'm guessing this is caused by fireduck's recent change, which he confusingly described as follows:

This check makes sure the bet is either confirmed and has a tx fee of at least 0.001

"either ... and ..." - not sure what that means.

I'm guessing what he meant to say is that bets aren't processed until they get into a block unless they have a fee of at least 0.001 included.  But his statement could be clearer.

I'd suggest including a fee of 0.001 BTC with a bet and see if that gets things going fast for you again.

[JWU42]

I'd suggest including a fee of 0.001 BTC with a bet and see if that gets things going fast for you again.

Yep - need a .001 fee to get a "normal" response

[dooglus]

I'd suggest including a fee of 0.001 BTC with a bet and see if that gets things going fast for you again.

Yep - need a .001 fee to get a "normal" response

That kind of makes sense.

If people are allowed to place bets with no fees, even when fees 'should' be included according to standard fee rules, the bet transaction will possibly take a long time to confirm.  Then, when they lose and their bet amount is used to pay out other winners, the payment to the other winners won't confirm until all the amounts from losing bets have confirmed, due to how bitcoin works.

So the 0.001 fee is an attempt to make sure that all bets confirm in a reasonable amount of time.

It occurs to me that it might be a little overkill to insist on such a fee for all bets if you want 'instant' results when not all small transactions really require a fee at all if they're high enough priority, but still, it's only a cent, so I guess nobody's going to complain.

[JWU42]

I'd suggest including a fee of 0.001 BTC with a bet and see if that gets things going fast for you again.

Yep - need a .001 fee to get a "normal" response

That kind of makes sense.

If people are allowed to place bets with no fees, even when fees 'should' be included according to standard fee rules, the bet transaction will possibly take a long time to confirm.  Then, when they lose and their bet amount is used to pay out other winners, the payment to the other winners won't confirm until all the amounts from losing bets have confirmed, due to how bitcoin works.

So the 0.001 fee is an attempt to make sure that all bets confirm in a reasonable amount of time.

It occurs to me that it might be a little overkill to insist on such a fee for all bets if you want 'instant' results when not all small transactions really require a fee at all if they're high enough priority, but still, it's only a cent, so I guess nobody's going to complain.

FWIW - I was using .0005 fee previously...

[Come-from-Beyond]

Anyone else still waiting on their bet?
Mine is sitting at "UNKNOWN" still and it's almost been 4 days since I made that bet..

Yes. I'm waiting for mine. 4 days already passed. I PMed Evoorhees regarding this issue, perhaps he is working hard to resolve it... Hahaha, of coz I don't think so...

[fireduck]

"either ... and ..." - not sure what that means.

I'm guessing what he meant to say is that bets aren't processed until they get into a block unless they have a fee of at least 0.001 included.  But his statement could be clearer.

I'd suggest including a fee of 0.001 BTC with a bet and see if that gets things going fast for you again.

You are correct.  It should have been either, or.  I've been traveling and haven't had a chance to post until now.  I've lowered the fee down to 0.0005 again and will see how that goes. 

[deepceleron]

"either ... and ..." - not sure what that means.

I'm guessing what he meant to say is that bets aren't processed until they get into a block unless they have a fee of at least 0.001 included.  But his statement could be clearer.

I'd suggest including a fee of 0.001 BTC with a bet and see if that gets things going fast for you again.

You are correct.  It should have been either, or.  I've been traveling and haven't had a chance to post until now.  I've lowered the fee down to 0.0005 again and will see how that goes.  

The required fee is 0.0005 per KB. If a gambler's bet is funded by many smaller payments, the transaction to send the payment may easily be more than 1 KB in size. Likewise, a winning payout back to a user, likely funded by many small payments from losers, also would need an appropriate fee related to it's data size.

This is the same factor that render's satoshidice user's wallet balance unspendable. After the wallet is full of .00000001 BTC losing confirmation payments, attempting to empty the wallet of these takes a considerable fee that is much higher than 0.0005 (or indeed the value of the dust in their wallet).

[dooglus]

The required fee is 0.0005 per KB. If a gambler's bet is funded by many smaller payments, the transaction to send the payment may easily be more than 1 KB in size. Likewise, a winning payout back to a user, likely funded by many small payments from losers, also would need an appropriate fee related to it's data size.

The code that determines the 'required fee' is quite complex.  It depends of a whole bunch of factors.  0.0005 is more than is required for some transactions, and much less than is required for others.

It would probably be worth checking that the included fee is sufficient (according the satoshi client's rules) before processing each bet, rather than using a hardcoded value like 0.0005 or 0.001 BTC.

Like deepceleron says, if I place a bet made up of lots of 1 satoshi pieces, the required fee will likely be substantially higher than 0.01 BTC.

[MPOE-PR]

The code that determines the 'required fee' is quite complex.  It depends of a whole bunch of factors.  0.0005 is more than is required for some transactions, and much less than is required for others.

It would probably be worth checking that the included fee is sufficient (according the satoshi client's rules) before processing each bet, rather than using a hardcoded value like 0.0005 or 0.001 BTC.

Like deepceleron says, if I place a bet made up of lots of 1 satoshi pieces, the required fee will likely be substantially higher than 0.01 BTC.

The somewhat concerning part of all this is that as money keeps getting passed back and forth all sums are eventually ground up into smaller and smaller bits until all satoshis are actually broken apart and travel independently (ie, all payments are actually made up of that many satoshi). What then, Satoshalipse?!

[Come-from-Beyond]

The somewhat concerning part of all this is that as money keeps getting passed back and forth all sums are eventually ground up into smaller and smaller bits until all satoshis are actually broken apart and travel independently (ie, all payments are actually made up of that many satoshi). What then, Satoshalipse?!

No. When a lot of inputs go to one output, they r combined into a big solid chunk of satoshis. Next transaction from the output address will have only 1 input.

[dooglus]

The somewhat concerning part of all this is that as money keeps getting passed back and forth all sums are eventually ground up into smaller and smaller bits until all satoshis are actually broken apart and travel independently (ie, all payments are actually made up of that many satoshi). What then, Satoshalipse?!

No. When a lot of inputs go to one output, they r combined into a big solid chunk of satoshis. Next transaction from the output address will have only 1 input.

That's correct.  Here's an example - lots of inputs, many of which are small, and only 3 outputs, all of a reasonable size:
  http://blockchain.info/tx-index/24440537

[MPOE-PR]

The somewhat concerning part of all this is that as money keeps getting passed back and forth all sums are eventually ground up into smaller and smaller bits until all satoshis are actually broken apart and travel independently (ie, all payments are actually made up of that many satoshi). What then, Satoshalipse?!

No. When a lot of inputs go to one output, they r combined into a big solid chunk of satoshis. Next transaction from the output address will have only 1 input.

Ah ok, thanks for that.

[Come-from-Beyond]

The somewhat concerning part of all this is that as money keeps getting passed back and forth all sums are eventually ground up into smaller and smaller bits until all satoshis are actually broken apart and travel independently (ie, all payments are actually made up of that many satoshi). What then, Satoshalipse?!

No. When a lot of inputs go to one output, they r combined into a big solid chunk of satoshis. Next transaction from the output address will have only 1 input.

Ah ok, thanks for that.

U should thank Satoshi for that 

[evoorhees]

Performance update:

Bad news - October was a bad month for the house. Site lost 2,071 BTC. There is thus no October dividend for S.DICE (technically a dividend of 0.00000001 btc was paid today to mark the date)

Good news - This means players profited 2,071 BTC from playing SatoshiDICE in October. You're welcome! 

Players seem to be enjoying the new website, check it out if you haven't yet - SatoshiDICE.com

Also, incidence of stuck transactions has been greatly diminished after many little tweaks. Not perfect yet but far fewer transactions are getting stuck. As mentioned, all stuck transactions do pay out eventually. Nothing gets lost in the void.

Also, a fun new thing will be announced in about one week. Stay tuned!

[davecoin]

These transactions were from 10/24 and I still haven't received them.  It just shows an unconfirmed balance in the client.

e548ecd33b7ca31228d2b3d1f2727f8199b0f7518b737b463012e6d7a294500e
e4d76cb4751da6a2238d597e7336c04b85de02d8cb9c6fa43a05ef9ed82591e8
cd179b0ac0f40690445946fd87d5366f1cf38050eef2e1dde9e971e41633feae
aeec3d829f3587054f0483ac07d527ff36331ecf64081110a8bf4803bcf9756b
37462d3818c3c1b962aef4b2664bdcbee9901889f72ed1a1f6837282b4b9c8d0
30631265ba24cc396c6090cb426ba5fca21a2c25d921d7132026d39a2e273a82
d946b08d36068bf512e3cf839d5edac001deeba73e9c78046199b6c2f8045339



Any ideas?  I messaged evoorhees but did not receive a reply.  I did a rescan, but that did not seem to help.

Thanks,
Dave