[BitcoinMax.com] Closed

[ErebusBat]

Then why did you give him your money in the first place ?

Unbelievable !!!

This

BUt also I think you should payout in whatever way gets me my monies first....

It is only fair.

[wormbog]

Why you do not wait to receive all the money from pirateat40 and then you give them back proportionally?

To answer that question, you'd have to look at the legal history of Ponzi schemes. The Madoff ponzi is a good example.

The trustee responsible for returning funds, Irving Picard, had to determine how much money was left to be distributed, and how much to return to investors. Neither has a simple answer.

Determining how much money is available is tricky because the gov't has the power to compel those who benefited from the ponzi (the early investors) to return their profits for redistribution to the investors. Picard focused on the larger recipients, such as the owners of the New York Mets, who were big investors with Madoff.

Since bitcoin payments can't be reversed and the investors are mostly anonymous, that's not possible for the pirate ponzi. But it is possible to subtract withdrawals from the original investments of each investor, which mostly accomplishes the same thing.

In the Madoff case, the courts decided that returns should be limited only to actual funds invested with Madoff, excluding fictional paper profits that never actually existed. Since the profits Madoff reported to his investors never actually existed the courts saw no reason to try to refund them.

My proposal for payb.tc is to pay off investors using the same methods the courts determined for the Madoff case. In short: take the original investment, subtract any BTC that was actually paid out, and then pay pirate's refund in proportion to their net investment losses.

If pirate comes through and delivers the full amount due, then payb.tc can distribute according to the actual account balances, which would be great.

[Micon]

1)  

2)  Payt.btc - you claim to have 367 accounts at Bitcoinmax, can you please tell us the average balance or the total amount of coins owed?  It is extremely relevant at this point, as I would like to add your operation + BurtW's bonds and get a number.

3)  If payb.tc won't give us this info (why does it matter now?  what secret must you keep at this point?  Pirate will either stall / not pay or just ship it, please post the amount in your Bmax account you are waiting on

[DutchBrat]

1)  

2)  Payt.btc - you claim to have 367 accounts at Bitcoinmax, can you please tell us the average balance or the total amount of coins owed?  It is extremely relevant at this point, as I would like to add your operation + BurtW's bonds and get a number.

3)  If payb.tc won't give us this info (why does it matter now?  what secret must you keep at this point?  Pirate will either stall / not pay or just ship it, please post the amount in your Bmax account you are waiting on

I am waiting for 38.673 BTC + last weeks interest  !!!

And I know of some people who are hoping for at least 25.000 BTC each

[ErebusBat]

3)  If payb.tc won't give us this info (why does it matter now?  what secret must you keep at this point?  Pirate will either stall / not pay or just ship it, please post the amount in your Bmax account you are waiting on

payb.tc please do no disclose any information about my account to anyone but pirate himself.

Thanks

[Philj]

See, if you actually had an account, you could go on the site and look at the "Sum total of older accounts". I think this is there to see where you are in line.

[notme]

See, if you actually had an account, you could go on the site and look at the "Sum total of older accounts". I think this is there to see where you are in line.

Only 125k BTC ahead of me!

[Electricbees]

Aww hell yeah! I'm user #34/373

I feel special. First in, first out! Thirty-fourth in, thirty-fourth out? 

[Timbo925]

#5 in the row and 2K+ before me. Put in the withdrawn order just before pirate announced the closing.
Still waiting tho

[ragnard]

in order of priority

- pay those that requested withdrawals before BST closed. (2012-08-17 17:58:00 UTC).
- pay last week's principle balance in order of account age, including any deposits made during this week.
- pay this week's interest earnings in order of account age

This is fair.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Actually it could be even better if he pays late this week, because he promised to pay interest up to the actual time he returns the funds. So paying late would mean that you will get interest for another, say, half a week.

So just keep mum. Perhaps he will pay you after a couple of years. Then he will have to pay you more bitcoins than the number of bitcoins in existence.

Put your money where your mouth is.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751.0;topicseen

Or are you just all talk, coward.

[cst]

2)  Payt.btc - you claim to have 367 accounts at Bitcoinmax, can you please tell us the average balance or the total amount of coins owed?  It is extremely relevant at this point, as I would like to add your operation + BurtW's bonds and get a number.

3)  If payb.tc won't give us this info (why does it matter now?  what secret must you keep at this point?  Pirate will either stall / not pay or just ship it, please post the amount in your Bmax account you are waiting on

FU, it's none of your business how much and where people invest their money.

[wormbog]

in order of priority

- pay those that requested withdrawals before BST closed. (2012-08-17 17:58:00 UTC).
- pay last week's principle balance in order of account age, including any deposits made during this week.
- pay this week's interest earnings in order of account age

This is fair.

Paying according to account age is not fair. Paying in proportion to account size is fair.

[ragnard]

in order of priority

- pay those that requested withdrawals before BST closed. (2012-08-17 17:58:00 UTC).
- pay last week's principle balance in order of account age, including any deposits made during this week.
- pay this week's interest earnings in order of account age

This is fair.

Paying according to account age is not fair. Paying in proportion to account size is fair.

I guess it depends on your perspective.  I fully expect pirate to live up to this commitment and return 100% of what he promised.  I do, however, expect it to come in stages and this, IMO, is a fair means of delivering the funds in a staggered manner.

[hgmichna]

Why you do not wait to receive all the money from pirateat40 and then you give them back proportionally?

To answer that question, you'd have to look at the legal history of Ponzi schemes. The Madoff ponzi is a good example.

I think it is not a good example, because Bernie Madoff was caught, and there was some money to be repaid.

A bitcoin Ponzi scheme is different, because it is quite uncertain whether the perpetrators can get caught. There is the distinct (even likely, I believe) possibility that not a single bitcoin can be recovered.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Why you do not wait to receive all the money from pirateat40 and then you give them back proportionally?

To answer that question, you'd have to look at the legal history of Ponzi schemes. The Madoff ponzi is a good example.

I think it is not a good example, because Bernie Madoff was caught, and there was some money to be repaid.

A bitcoin Ponzi scheme is different, because it is quite uncertain whether the perpetrators can get caught. There is the distinct (even likely, I believe) possibility that not a single bitcoin can be recovered.

Yeah.  The bet thread is over there --->

[payb.tc]

in order of priority

- pay those that requested withdrawals before BST closed. (2012-08-17 17:58:00 UTC).
- pay last week's principle balance in order of account age, including any deposits made during this week.
- pay this week's interest earnings in order of account age

This is fair.

Paying according to account age is not fair. Paying in proportion to account size is fair.

I guess it depends on your perspective.  I fully expect pirate to live up to this commitment and return 100% of what he promised.  I do, however, expect it to come in stages and this, IMO, is a fair means of delivering the funds in a staggered manner.

this post hits it spot on... the account age thing is relevant if 100% of the coins are paid, but in stages.

micon, i can't believe how you still to this day continue to get your facts wrong...  i have never claimed to have '367 accounts'. where do you do your research?

[aq]

some people were wondering what is an old/new bitcoinmax account, relatively speaking, so i put a little message in the login area to show your ID number (out of 373 accounts).

2)  Payt.btc - you claim to have 367 accounts at Bitcoinmax, can you please tell us the average balance or the total amount of coins owed?  It is extremely relevant at this point, as I would like to add your operation + BurtW's bonds and get a number.

Now we know why Micon failed in real live too: he is a real math wizard

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

The 5.1% just kicked in

[Garr255]

Ohh and the Zeekler pyramid's assets were frozen today haha.

(Not implying this was a pyramid/ponzi)