[BitcoinMax.com] Closed

[ErebusBat]

higher risk means higher reward.

This is not about risk. Risk is the chance that you'll lose the spin of the roulette wheel. This is about the casino planting a magnet under the roulette wheel.

When you hire someone to clean your house and he steals your jewelery, people don't say that this was a risk you accepted when you hired someone to clean your house and that you knew a house cleaner might steal.

IMHO this is not a congruent argument.  Pirate explained his business as market arbitrage and selling to people of 'influence'.  I am not going to get into it here, but given his background in forex the detailed explanation made sense to me.  It was very clear that it was a high risk investment that could go away, but not stealing, which are two different things.

[zyk]

Hi mate,

Post a screenshot in the thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102659.msg1125608#msg1125608) of your account page showing the amounts and your place in line.

If you're really far down the line I might pass, as it's a lot of risk for a small amount, but go ahead and post it anyway,

Thanks,

Tony

Here my two accounts:

Logged in as: zyk (User #119 of 373)      Balance: 7.45718104      Next Payment: 0.51454549


Logged in as: Andiescoins (User #361 of 373)      Balance: 11.51955357      Next Payment: 0.79484920

so now the market even in form of Sir Rolo (the steadfastest believer in Santa Claus)...is seeing  that the scheme just serves to rob the latecoming little fish in favour of the fat-cat perpetrators?

People....and all together now!...we all should really think of the legitimity( already looks wrong this word ) of "the service" we got involved in....
At least the crumps of the remaining assets should be distributed evenly as its already an obvious insider scam or is it not?

Thanks for listening  Cheers Zyk

P.S.   Who, when and where is the payout - order to be fixed ?
 

All of the customers coins are still with payb.tc he simply transferred the risk to the customers and collected a fee  unless he also deposited his own coins with pirate

that might be true if i were rich enough to own 150,000 btc.

but in reality practically none of the coins are with me... almost all of them got sent to pirate to earn interest.

i have less than 100 btc of these coins in my wallet.

Thanks for opening up an ear and posting about accounting statistics.

We can hope for but still its against all odds, as there is no fell swoop coming -  what is the pay - out order of bitcoinmax?? --- please let us discuss until its fixed in the OP!

Cheers Zyk

Quote from: payb.tc on July 04, 2012, 09:39:53 PM
Quote from: zyk on July 04, 2012, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: payb.tc on July 04, 2012, 02:51:25 PM
following on from the previous post, i just want to make one point clear:

your investment is 100% exposed to BST as soon as you send it to me, regardless of where the outputs of your actual transaction get spent.


whats are your take on to what kind of service BCST is providing to its clients and therefore the risk exposure to your buiseness and that of your lenders?

Cheers Zyk



P.S.  you mean if pirate goes bust you are free of returning principal ?

my take is that it works, so i don't really concern myself with trying to find out why it works. if pirate really wanted us to know, he'd tell us.

and yes i'm free of returning principal: your principal 'amount' is with BST.

an example of that would be let's say to start with i have 200 btc which i keep here:

BST wallet   100   i own 100% of these coins
My wallet   100   i own 100% of these coins

then, a bitcoinmax lender decides to invest 40 btc (sending it to MY wallet), the ownership changes immediately to:

BST wallet   100   i own 60 of these coins, and the bitcoinmax lender owns the other 40
My wallet   140   i own 100% of these coins

then if BST stops paying, i've lost 60 btc, and the bitcoinmax lender has lost 40 btc, even though the actual 40 bitcoins that he sent are still unspent in my own personal wallet.

payb.tc
Hero Member
Posts: 2346
The Free Bitcoin Address Shortener 

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Re: Bitcoin Savings & Trust - Money Returned List (One reported).
August 24, 2012, 12:00:12 AM
 #292
Quote from: muyuu on August 23, 2012, 11:48:58 PM
Quote from: myrkul on August 23, 2012, 11:45:29 PM
Participate in the panic selling. He'll pick 'em up cheap.

I will participate in the panic buying 

i'm going to do a bit of panic holding.

mostly just holding though, not so much of the panicking.

Quote from: hgmichna on August 27, 2012, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: payb.tc on August 27, 2012, 02:07:34 AM
… i definitely rate personal responsibility way above victimism... people have noone to blame but themselves.

If one of the victims had said that, I might not have replied, but if you say it, a few words are in order.

i am one of the 'victims', therefore didn't bother reading the rest as the logic doesn't follow...

i've lost 5300 btc.

i'm sure micon and the likes will love to hear me publish my exact personal stake.

but clearly, i take sole responsibility for losing those coins.

edit: okay so i read a bit more of your post... if pirate doesn't pay out i've made practically nothing at all from this venture. perhaps 20 btc, haha i'm rich!


As i really love theoretical and philosophical discussions about the wherewithall of ponzis, currency systems and bitcoin, i really think they should have been

posted in the original OP before rather than being discussed only after the shit has hit the fan in the Bitcoinmax thread.

Which mindset produces the "older accounts first"!!??   As long as it works....shut up its an investment which can go wrong...and when pirate busts the "hypothetical" remnants will

be treated as a scammers ponzi loot ? -- those in front of the chain -letter first?

Can you  confirm your personal responsibility by paying out those 20 coins left to " Andies coins" account before you victimize yourself please?

Even pirate himself closes smaller accounts first...for not being accused to keep bitlane earily quiet

Tell us how the first hypothetical swoop of say 5300 coins would be distibuted ?


Thanks for an answer to the layman

Cheers Zyk

[miscreanity]

I figured out the moralistic logic. It's all predicated upon the notion that the world's population exists in an infantile intellectual state, virtually incapable of acting independently on anything more complex than inserting food into the mouth hole.

• Anything that generates a return is a scam because the operators could be misrepresenting data, especially when the business model isn't disclosed and/or is incomprehensible to the uninitiated.
  
• Therefore we're all scammers and should kill ourselves, except for those who screamed 'scam' because they're more human than human.
• Pirate and payb.tc should kill themselves twice, just because.
• The suicide pact shall commence during the passing of a famous asteroid.

Problem solved. The moral dictators will then be able to sit around and mentally masturbate for the rest of their lives, even though nobody else will be around to care.

Maybe I can extrapolate this to education.

• Pay thousands for a college education.
• Work at a company.
• Get laid off.
• Vilify the college, burn down the company.

The first and last parts are interchangeable. Makes perfect sense - about as much as the witch hunt. It's about as actionable, too.

I risked and (maybe) lost. That's more than Team Ponzi can say; they need to get over their bad selves. Now it's time to get back to doing something more worthwhile than making a mockery of holier-than-thou Internet dictators.

[bitlane]

I figured out the moralistic logic. It's all predicated upon the notion that the world's population exists in an infantile intellectual state, virtually incapable of acting independently on anything more complex than inserting food into the mouth hole.

• Anything that generates a return is a scam because the operators could be misrepresenting data, especially when the business model isn't disclosed and/or is incomprehensible to the uninitiated.
  
• Therefore we're all scammers and should kill ourselves, except for those who screamed 'scam' because they're more human than human.
• Pirate and payb.tc should kill themselves twice, just because.
• The suicide pact shall commence during the passing of a famous asteroid.

Problem solved. The moral dictators will then be able to sit around and mentally masturbate for the rest of their lives, even though nobody else will be around to care.

Maybe I can extrapolate this to education.

• Pay thousands for a college education.
• Work at a company.
• Get laid off.
• Vilify the college, burn down the company.

The first and last parts are interchangeable. Makes perfect sense - about as much as the witch hunt. It's about as actionable, too.

I risked and (maybe) lost. That's more than Team Ponzi can say; they need to get over their bad selves. Now it's time to get back to doing something more worthwhile than making a mockery of holier-than-thou Internet dictators.

Well, I may be the sucker that lost a shitload of MY Bitcoins ...but I am not the cunt that lost OTHER PEOPLE'S Bitcoins.

[bogidu]

The thread is BitcoinMax - Closing Down.

Does anyone have any USEFUL information, like a bitcoin savings account that pays an interest rate . . . . preferably a reasonable one that "EVERYONE KNOWS" is NOT a scam and is NOT going to fold in four weeks?  If I can eventually earn back SOME coins I'd still like to invest somewhere for when mining dries up.

[dextryn]

The thread is BitcoinMax - Closing Down.

Does anyone have any USEFUL information, like a bitcoin savings account that pays an interest rate . . . . preferably a reasonable one that "EVERYONE KNOWS" is NOT a scam and is NOT going to fold in four weeks?  If I can eventually earn back SOME coins I'd still like to invest somewhere for when mining dries up.

+1 to this
I'm trying to get into something too, but now GLSBE is a bit daunting to get into.  I could use some help as well.

[wormbog]

I figured out the moralistic logic. It's all predicated upon the notion that the world's population exists in an infantile intellectual state, virtually incapable of acting independently on anything more complex than inserting food into the mouth hole.

*whaargrbl removed*

I risked and (maybe) lost. That's more than Team Ponzi can say; they need to get over their bad selves. Now it's time to get back to doing something more worthwhile than making a mockery of holier-than-thou Internet dictators.

"Man, getting robbed and beaten really sucks. Well, I knew it was a bad neighborhood. I'm not going to cry about it."

"My home got foreclosed on, Bank of America sucks! Well, everyone said they were crooked. Guess I learned my lesson!"

"That auto shop destroyed my car! Well, they did have a bunch of bad Yelp reviews. Oh well, I should have known better."

I don't know about you, miscreanity, but when someone lies to me and steals my money, I call the police.

[bogidu]

The thread is BitcoinMax - Closing Down.

Does anyone have any USEFUL information, like a bitcoin savings account that pays an interest rate . . . . preferably a reasonable one that "EVERYONE KNOWS" is NOT a scam and is NOT going to fold in four weeks?  If I can eventually earn back SOME coins I'd still like to invest somewhere for when mining dries up.

+1 to this
I'm trying to get into something too, but now GLSBE is a bit daunting to get into.  I could use some help as well.

EXACTLY!  BitcoinMax had a simple interface and explained clearly deposits, withdrawals, and interest for those of us who AREN'T moonlighting stock brokers!

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

If you are a victim of the fraud and did not know it was a fraud, then you are without guilt.

thanks hg, that's very kind of you to say.

i agree completely.

Again, I don't know enough about the facts of any specific situation to point blame at any particular people

And yet here you are, doing exactly that like the self righteous prick you are.

You people make me sick, get on the ignore list and stay there.

payb.tc, I agree with the other users.  The trolls have 2200 other threads to spread their holier than thou opinions, don't let them have this one as well.

[miscreanity]

I don't know about you, miscreanity, but when someone lies to me and steals my money, I call the police.

Classic abdication of responsibility. What are you going to tell them - "Someone stole my Monopoly money"?

Crying over spilt milk in an unregulated and barely recognized environment is foolish. Get over it and forge ahead. How about helping to create a more credible savings business to replace BTCS&T? No? Then stay out of the way with your whimpering and tears.

[Turbor]

[22:56]   pirateat40   Notice: If you are a PPT operator please contact me via PM. Thanks...

[ErebusBat]

Let me summarize the current thread for people:

"Hey this looks really risky, but *if* it pays off.... mmm I could risk X coins, and if I lose them, oh well... but if it pays off OK."

"OH NO, that guy must be nuts!  I have to tell him that there is no way he can get his money back.... quick!"

"Hey thanks for the heads up....  I realize it looks risky, but I think the risk is worth the reward though."

"But wait.. no, you don't understand. Let me tell you why you are wrong......"

"No really... I understand it may be risky and while I see your point I don't agree, thanks though.  Really I am ok."

You still don't agree?
"WHY ARE YOU A PONZI STEALING SCAMMING A-HOLE THAT DOESN'T LISTEN TO ME?!?!   PONZI PONZI PONZI OCCAM SCAM asld;j:LSDfjdflkahdsaf"

time passes...

"HRm... looks like I might not get my coins back.  Oh well, it was a calculated risk and I (might have lost).  At least I got something out of it."

Moves on to the next thing

"I TOLD YOU THAT YOU WOULD GET SCAMMED YOU STUPID RETARDED SACK OF MEAT THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PISS ON YOUR OWN AND ESPECIALLY NOT DECIDE WHERE YOU PUT YOUR MONEY"

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Let me summarize the current thread for people:

"Hey this looks really risky, but *if* it pays off.... mmm I could risk X coins, and if I lose them, oh well... but if it pays off OK."

"OH NO, that guy must be nuts!  I have to tell him that there is no way he can get his money back.... quick!"

"Hey thanks for the heads up....  I realize it looks risky, but I think the risk is worth the reward though."

"But wait.. no, you don't understand. Let me tell you why you are wrong......"

"No really... I understand it may be risky and while I see your point I don't agree, thanks though.  Really I am ok."

You still don't agree?
"WHY ARE YOU A PONZI STEALING SCAMMING A-HOLE THAT DOESN'T LISTEN TO ME?!?!   PONZI PONZI PONZI OCCAM SCAM asld;j:LSDfjdflkahdsaf"

time passes...

"HRm... looks like I might not get my coins back.  Oh well, it was a calculated risk and I (might have lost).  At least I got something out of it."

Moves on to the next thing

"I TOLD YOU THAT YOU WOULD GET SCAMMED YOU STUPID RETARDED SACK OF MEAT THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PISS ON YOUR OWN AND ESPECIALLY NOT DECIDE WHERE YOU PUT YOUR MONEY"

Haha, brilliant, and totally spot on : D

[wormbog]

I don't know about you, miscreanity, but when someone lies to me and steals my money, I call the police.

Classic abdication of responsibility. What are you going to tell them - "Someone stole my Monopoly money"?

Crying over spilt milk in an unregulated and barely recognized environment is foolish. Get over it and forge ahead. How about helping to create a more credible savings business to replace BTCS&T? No? Then stay out of the way with your whimpering and tears.

I should help to create a credible savings business to invest my Monopoly money?

[dlasher]

few minutes ago.

[13:56:10] <@pirateat40> Notice:  If you are a PPT operator please contact me via PM.  Thanks

[miscreanity]

I should help to create a credible savings business to invest my Monopoly money?

It depends on what you think is worthwhile. Either help build something or spend your time trying to explain what Bitcoin is to the police. Building a service that's in demand creates value; the police will have to understand Bitcoin eventually regardless of whether you explain it or not. Your choice.

[zyk]

I figured out the moralistic logic. It's all predicated upon the notion that the world's population exists in an infantile intellectual state, virtually incapable of acting independently on anything more complex than inserting food into the mouth hole.

• Anything that generates a return is a scam because the operators could be misrepresenting data, especially when the business model isn't disclosed and/or is incomprehensible to the uninitiated.
  
• Therefore we're all scammers and should kill ourselves, except for those who screamed 'scam' because they're more human than human.
• Pirate and payb.tc should kill themselves twice, just because.
• The suicide pact shall commence during the passing of a famous asteroid.

Problem solved. The moral dictators will then be able to sit around and mentally masturbate for the rest of their lives, even though nobody else will be around to care.

Maybe I can extrapolate this to education.

• Pay thousands for a college education.
• Work at a company.
• Get laid off.
• Vilify the college, burn down the company.

The first and last parts are interchangeable. Makes perfect sense - about as much as the witch hunt. It's about as actionable, too.

I risked and (maybe) lost. That's more than Team Ponzi can say; they need to get over their bad selves. Now it's time to get back to doing something more worthwhile than making a mockery of holier-than-thou Internet dictators.

Well, I may be the sucker that lost a shitload of MY Bitcoins ...but I am not the cunt that lost OTHER PEOPLE'S Bitcoins.

Quote from: payb.tc on August 27, 2012, 02:07:34 AM
… i definitely rate personal responsibility way above victimism... people have noone to blame but themselves.

If one of the victims had said that, I might not have replied, but if you say it, a few words are in order.

i am one of the 'victims', therefore didn't bother reading the rest as the logic doesn't follow...

i've lost 5300 btc.

i'm sure micon and the likes will love to hear me publish my exact personal stake.

but clearly, i take sole responsibility for losing those coins.

edit: okay so i read a bit more of your post... if pirate doesn't pay out i've made practically nothing at all from this venture. perhaps 20 btc, haha i'm rich!





As i really love theoretical and philosophical discussions about the wherewithall of ponzis, currency systems and bitcoin, i really think they should have been

posted in the original OP before rather than being discussed only after the shit has hit the fan in the Bitcoinmax thread.

Which mindset produces the "older accounts first"!!??   As long as it works....shut up its an investment which can go wrong...and when pirate busts the "hypothetical" remnants will

be treated as a scammers ponzi loot ? -- those in front of the chain -letter first?

Can you  confirm your personal responsibility by paying out those 20 coins left to " Andies coins" account before you victimize yourself please?

Even pirate himself closes smaller accounts first...for not being accused to keep bitlane earily quiet ............not so much anymore?

Tell us how the first hypothetical swoop of say 5300 coins would be distibuted ?


Thanks for an answer to the layman

Cheers Zyk
P.S.

I want an answer before pirate is PM éd  to determine if bitcoinmax is a failed enterprise or a planed  scam!!!

[markm]

Does anyone have any USEFUL information, like a bitcoin savings account that pays an interest rate . . . . preferably a reasonable one that "EVERYONE KNOWS" is NOT a scam and is NOT going to fold in four weeks?  If I can eventually earn back SOME coins I'd still like to invest somewhere for when mining dries up.

The problem is that bitcoin itself is an investment, so it doesn't make much sense to borrow it to invest. It makes more sense to borrow something else to invest in bitcoins. It is very hard to come up with a non-scam reason to take a loan denominated in bitcoins, even borrowing litecoins or devcoins or ixcoins or i0coins might actually make more sense; sure they have more room to massively jump in price but have they actually been growing in value as fast as bitcoins? Best of all would be to borrow fiat or something about as stable as fiat.

So what would force a borrower to have to resort to borrowing bitcoins, of all things?

Maybe being such a horrible credit risk that they are totally unable to borrow anything else?

A great return could be offered in almost anything other than bitcoins simply by using that other thing to buy and hold bitcoins.

-MarkM-

[Grinder]

"HRm... looks like I might not get my coins back.  Oh well, it was a calculated risk and I (might have lost).  At least I got something out of it."

Moves on to the next thing

It could have been a much more helpful example if your "investor" didn't lack basic math skills.

[Coin.Karma]

dont worry guys everyone is going to get their coins back....relax a bit brothers.....