Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[RDegas]

Either way, Ponzi schemes can be very profitable. I don't think there is anything unethical about gambling with a Ponzi scheme.

Do you find anything unethical about early adopters defending Ponzi scams so that more people buy in (so that they can get out before it disappears)?

Do you find anything unethical about running Ponzi schemes, and trying to get as many people to buy in before you skip town?

As long as people understand the risks, then no.  There is nothing unethical about it.  Just like there's nothing unethical about encouraging people to play slot machines.

[Micon]

You missed one, Micon.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

Go get him, boy!

tytyty / added / please link me all, and I mean all of these things.  I'm extremely determined to make a complete list.  I will need help with the GBLSE pass-through bonds and shit.  A complete list of anything pirate-passthrough is going to be a good place to start.

[Micon]

Pretty sure Micon is a puppet for that guy who has the huge bet on Pirate defaulting.

Sounds about right.

seem to be batting 1000 with Ponzi-scam runners saying I am only doing this to help a guy with a huge bet that the Ponzi will fail.

[John (John K.)]

You missed one, Micon.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

Go get him, boy!

tytyty / added / please link me all, and I mean all of these things.  I'm extremely determined to make a complete list.  I will need help with the GBLSE pass-through bonds and shit.  A complete list of anything pirate-passthrough is going to be a good place to start.

Just take my tip and add the whole lending subforum to the list. There's essentially no lenders/borrowers that offer less then 1% a week here.

[miscreanity]

I found a good one:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87934.0

And another:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900.0

[nckrazze]

11) a good list of ponzi's, pass-throughs, and other scams I may have missed  --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0

I see you listened to the community and successfully added every single depositing service as one of your, "List of Ponzis". I will take this as your official decree Lord Micon, and I vow to withdraw every penny I have deposited with these scum investors, for your word is the law that dictates my every action.

[Micon]

11) a good list of ponzi's, pass-throughs, and other scams I may have missed  --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0

I see you listened to the community and successfully added every single depositing service as one of your, "List of Ponzis". I will take this as your official decree Lord Micon, and I vow to withdraw every penny I have deposited with these scum investors, for your word is the law that dictates my every action.

hi scammer.

1)  it also shocks me that there are so many.  just because the list of scams is long doesn't mean they all can't be scams.

2)  you are running a shameful scam.  please return what every of your "investor" money you have left and do not scam please

3)  BDT added to list / starting on GLBSE instruments -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.0   another 3% / wk like it's easy.  

Please guys, list me all of these, and I mean all of these in any subforum, on any exchange, etc.  We must do this for the betterment of bitcoin.  If any operators of these "investment" funds can show me any proof of doing any sort of business that could sustain these yields by all means start embarrassing yourself.  Any operator or proponent of these scams is welcome to call me on my podcast and debate me live. 

[Micon]

Either way, Ponzi schemes can be very profitable. I don't think there is anything unethical about gambling with a Ponzi scheme.

Do you find anything unethical about early adopters defending Ponzi scams so that more people buy in (so that they can get out before it disappears)?

Do you find anything unethical about running Ponzi schemes, and trying to get as many people to buy in before you skip town?

As long as people understand the risks, then no.  There is nothing unethical about it.  Just like there's nothing unethical about encouraging people to play slot machines.

I fully agree that ponzi schemes should be allowed to be run.  We as a BTC community should categorize them correctly.  "lending" is not what I or any reasonable man of science would call this. 

Further more, who runs this board? 

why can Pirateat40 lock his giant ponzi thread?

[Willowbitcoin]

[miscreanity]

You should preach the almighty word of shame to Mongolia!

Their banks offer 1.33% monthly in the traditional financial markets. That's up from about 1% last year!

Normally, I wouldn't say this, but your sheer idiocy is well beyond normal... GTFO Micon, you tool.

[Micon]

You should preach the almighty word of shame to Mongolia!

Their banks offer 1.33% monthly in the traditional financial markets. That's up from about 1% last year!

Normally, I wouldn't say this, but your sheer idiocy is well beyond normal... GTFO Micon, you tool.

Do you realize you just made my point in spades?

the whiskeyandgunpowder article is about an insanely high YEARLY interest rate of 16%  - Pirate and similar ponzis are only offering 200x more interest than that

[vuce]

"lending" is not what I or any reasonable man of science would call this.  

You call yourself a man of science yet you provide no  hard proof? Not sure if serious  

Further more, who runs this board?  

why can Pirateat40 lock his giant ponzi thread?

It's his thread, he can do whatever he wants with it (and so can you with yours)

Furthermore this whole thread should be moved to speculation 

[farfiman]

[
You mention business units that profit money to theorize how a business could pay 2.5% weekly interest on money - but if such a profitable business unit existed, say, you could buy something for $.30 and sell for $13 - would you take on investors and share the wealth?

Yes, If I had no money to invest - why not?... 

[miscreanity]

You should preach the almighty word of shame to Mongolia!

Their banks offer 1.33% monthly in the traditional financial markets. That's up from about 1% last year!

Normally, I wouldn't say this, but your sheer idiocy is well beyond normal... GTFO Micon, you tool.

Do you realize you just made my point in spades?

the whiskeyandgunpowder article is about an insanely high YEARLY interest rate of 16%  - Pirate and similar ponzis services are only offering 200x more interest than that

No, it doesn't make your point.

The returns are coming from an economic environment that's growing several orders of magnitude faster than Mongolia's. Moving money is a lot faster than moving machinery. Same principle, different assets. The smaller an economy is, the more growth it can incur and the faster that growth can happen.

If the SDR were introduced from zero, not being valued from a basket of currencies as it currently is, and adoption forced upon citizens by their respective governments in place of domestic currencies, the growth rate would be much greater than Bitcoin's current ~30% per year, and the returns from investment schemes would be far greater than a paltry 7% per week.

Of course, that would burn itself out very quickly. As I've said before, what Pirate is doing can last as long as Bitcoin itself continues growing.

The first year growth rate for Bitcoin was 100% - wrap your brain around that.

[PatrickHarnett]

Now I'm going to start feeling sorry for Micon.  I must be very stupid (as he noted above) and he is turning into a parody of what he vainly tried to prevent.

(yes - this is as close as I get to trolling - but this has turned into one of the more entertaining threads in my household.  i should get MNW and Phinneas to look in, or even LouxGaroux for some more serious dissection of the thread.)

Must be a real pain in the arse to realise that real economic activity can deliver 2%/week or more.  On that basis, Micon shouldn't be in the bitcoin world at all.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Now I'm going to start feeling sorry for Micon.  I must be very stupid (as he noted above) and he is turning into a parody of what he vainly tried to prevent.

(yes - this is as close as I get to trolling - but this has turned into one of the more entertaining threads in my household.  i should get MNW and Phinneas to look in, or even LouxGaroux for some more serious dissection of the thread.)

Must be a real pain in the arse to realise that real economic activity can deliver 2%/week or more.  On that basis, Micon shouldn't be in the bitcoin world at all.

One way to look at it is that government red tape costs 30% a month so you are only left with .01% in the traditional finance sector

[Frankie]

[
You mention business units that profit money to theorize how a business could pay 2.5% weekly interest on money - but if such a profitable business unit existed, say, you could buy something for $.30 and sell for $13 - would you take on investors and share the wealth?

Yes, If I had no money to invest - why not?... 

Yeah, this might make sense for someone without access to credit--for a couple months. But why take in increasing amounts of money after you've turned it over a couple of times in your fabulously profitable scheme?

Again, the question is not whether someone can get that ROI. People do it all the time. The question is why someone would pay so much for credit (unless they're trying to attract as much as they can before disappearing).

[farfiman]

[
You mention business units that profit money to theorize how a business could pay 2.5% weekly interest on money - but if such a profitable business unit existed, say, you could buy something for $.30 and sell for $13 - would you take on investors and share the wealth?

Yes, If I had no money to invest - why not?... 

Yeah, this might make sense for someone without access to credit--for a couple months. But why take in increasing amounts of money after you've turned it over a couple of times in your fabulously profitable scheme?

Again, the question is not whether someone can get that ROI. People do it all the time. The question is why someone would pay so much for credit (unless they're trying to attract as much as they can before disappearing).

I was going to answer this..but... ughh... I'm just tired of it....

[hgmichna]

...
3)  My main goal is to get these scams out of the Marketplace > lending  category - it makes us look foolish and stupid to anyone new exploring BTC

I think, trying to relabel the Lending category is currently hopeless. There are too many people around who want to believe that those are genuine businesses.

I also think you are overestimating the damage these scams are actually doing. Even pirateat40 is estimated at only $1m, which is a small fraction of the total bitcoin value.

On the positive side bitcoin users are learning fast. We have seen a price bubble already, which developed at over 100 times the speed of a similar bubble on the exchanges in 1929. People have learned the lesson, and a bubble as extreme as that may not repeat itself.

Now people are going to learn about Ponzi schemes. After the first few shut down, people will learn that lesson as well.

Another good thing is that each of these experiences cleans the bitcoin community of its stupidest members. To hand your money over to somebody you don't know, but who promises you 3,300% interest per year without explaining how he does it, and all that in the face of very explicit warnings, you have to be enormously stupid. If you don't want such people around, just let the thing run its course.

I agree that most likely all of these schemes stating weekly interest rates are scams. Those who already proposed to include the entire Lending category in your list are probably right.

[Micon]

...
3)  My main goal is to get these scams out of the Marketplace > lending  category - it makes us look foolish and stupid to anyone new exploring BTC

I think, trying to relabel the Lending category is currently hopeless. There are too many people around who want to believe that those are genuine businesses.

I also think you are overestimating the damage these scams are actually doing. Even pirateat40 is estimated at only $1m, which is a small fraction of the total bitcoin value.

On the positive side bitcoin users are learning fast. We have seen a price bubble already, which developed at over 100 times the speed of a similar bubble on the exchanges in 1929. People have learned the lesson, and a bubble as extreme as that may not repeat itself.

Now people are going to learn about Ponzi schemes. After the first few shut down, people will learn that lesson as well.

Another good thing is that each of these experiences cleans the bitcoin community of its stupidest members. To hand your money over to somebody you don't know, but who promises you 3,300% interest per year without explaining how he does it, and all that in the face of very explicit warnings, you have to be enormously stupid. If you don't want such people around, just let the thing run its course.

I agree that most likely all of these schemes stating weekly interest rates are scams. Those who already proposed to include the entire Lending category in your list are probably right.

wait you think because Pirateat40 has a $1M+ USD ponzi scheme it's not bad for bitcoin because it's only ~ 1% of total BTC?  you should say it like this:

"HOLY SHIT HE HAS 1% OF ALL BTC "INVESTED" IN HIS SCAM!  Over $1M USD!  HE MUST BE STOPPED"

you don't care at all that a guy is scamming anyone stupid enough to send him BTC right here on these forums, and he has already acquired $1M USD+ ?  this seems alarming, extremely wrong, horrible for bitcoin, and something should be done about it.