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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 281655 times)
Rw13enlib88
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July 22, 2016, 09:33:40 AM
 #1201

can add to the equations another parameter: how many miners do we want? given the cost per hash, we can calculate how much it costs to tamper the network (with e.g. 51% attack). security was and will always be an economical consideration. we have to make it unprofitable for the attacker. and ofc who will crunch the considerations and the numbers with no mistakes better than tau

Do agree, security was and will always be an economical consideration.

Just random thoughts

The ROI of attacking the network goes up as the price goes up if the hash rate stays stable.
Which it shouldnt, because more miners should come if the "miners tax" stays stable...

If the miners tax stays fixed it could make an accordion effect on miners/hash power/price but that changes once the miners have invest a lot of money and they have a huge fix cost, so they have to stay in market yes or yes just waiting for better times...
Then they will have to ask to rise in the miners tax.


But, if the price goes down, (which is gonna happen because of different adoption phases we gonna pass trought)
the situation will change.
Miners will complain they're not profitable anymore, that will lead to less miners, less security, more centralization of the hash power
or a rise in the dynamic %.

they will probably want to buy some kind of hedging. and this can be elevated to giving risk-free interest without printing new money (!). that's one of my old plans for agoras, i'll write it down soon. is all about a famous black&scholes strategy that recover the "value of time".

miners using options to protect their profits?

not sure if I understood it really but blow my mind. I'll wait till you write it down to re-think about it.

but risk-free concept sounds quite strange for me.
"risk-free" investments are bonds, which in my opinion is not true anymore.
There is always risk associated to the project. (different points of view in the community/team, the leader leaving the project)
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ohad
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July 22, 2016, 12:51:17 PM
 #1202

The ROI of attacking the network goes up as the price goes up if the hash rate stays stable.
Which it shouldnt, because more miners should come if the "miners tax" stays stable...

If the miners tax stays fixed it could make an accordion effect on miners/hash power/price but that changes once the miners have invest a lot of money and they have a huge fix cost, so they have to stay in market yes or yes just waiting for better times...
Then they will have to ask to rise in the miners tax.

why do miners prefer to mine in pools? they have very good reason: the volatility of their income is terribly impractically huge if they mine alone, even though the average revenue is theoretically the same (if neglecting some more factors). so if you have an ability to keep the expected average profit but significantly reduce volatility, that's what what rational players usually do.
same applies wrt the volatility of the price.

but risk-free concept sounds quite strange for me.
"risk-free" investments are bonds, which in my opinion is not true anymore.
There is always risk associated to the project. (different points of view in the community/team, the leader leaving the project)

imagine we have an agrs/btc options market and also a spot market (i.e. being able to convert agrs to btc and vice versa). then if one sells (shorts) a call option, and in the same time buys (long) the corresponding put option, and also buys the underlying assets (all with matching amounts), you'll have a profit for sure (neglecting commissions and other frictions). this profit should theoretically be equal to the so-called "risk-free interest" in the market, but more precisely, it really is the "alternative cost", i.e. how much people believe they'll profit if their money was not locked for a given amount of time. this technique is as old as black&scholes model

Tau-Chain & Agoras
Indal0
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July 23, 2016, 03:21:00 PM
 #1203

hello I sent some agoras to omniwallet and now I want to test to send some out there. but I cant becouse this error:

Your 'From Address' does not have enough BTC to complete this transaction. Please select a different address or send enough BTC to cover the Total transaction cost.

Must I have BTC in order to cashout my agoras ? is this normal ? first time I see I need btc to send some alts... This confuses me.
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July 23, 2016, 03:44:40 PM
 #1204

hello I sent some agoras to omniwallet and now I want to test to send some out there. but I cant becouse this error:

Your 'From Address' does not have enough BTC to complete this transaction. Please select a different address or send enough BTC to cover the Total transaction cost.

Must I have BTC in order to cashout my agoras ? is this normal ? first time I see I need btc to send some alts... This confuses me.

just enough btc for the transaction fees

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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July 23, 2016, 06:21:24 PM
 #1205

hello I sent some agoras to omniwallet and now I want to test to send some out there. but I cant becouse this error:

Your 'From Address' does not have enough BTC to complete this transaction. Please select a different address or send enough BTC to cover the Total transaction cost.

Must I have BTC in order to cashout my agoras ? is this normal ? first time I see I need btc to send some alts... This confuses me.


You need a small amount of BTC for transaction costs in your initial wallet.

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July 24, 2016, 11:33:28 AM
 #1206

Hi ohad,

could you please ask decentralized exchange Bitsquare ( https://bitsquare.io/ ) to add Agora to their exchange?
For adding please see https://forum.bitsquare.io/t/how-to-add-your-favorite-altcoin/46
 
thx

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July 24, 2016, 07:13:50 PM
 #1207

Hi ohad,

could you please ask decentralized exchange Bitsquare ( https://bitsquare.io/ ) to add Agora to their exchange?
For adding please see https://forum.bitsquare.io/t/how-to-add-your-favorite-altcoin/46
 
thx



I will ask them personally.

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July 24, 2016, 08:23:55 PM
 #1208

how many tokens have you sold till now @ohad ??
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July 24, 2016, 08:32:25 PM
 #1209

how many tokens have you sold till now @ohad ??

~7.5M
can see the issuer's address http://omnichest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=14gF3Up7wdRdkxAL4GgQLdnM8CThgDUSHR

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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July 24, 2016, 08:48:00 PM
 #1210


How much btc did those tokens raised ,900 ?

Thanks.
ohad
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July 24, 2016, 09:41:43 PM
 #1211


How much btc did those tokens raised ,900 ?

Thanks.

yes, though they're not kept as btc but converted to fiat. since tau's beginning we got ~$250k

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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July 24, 2016, 10:08:17 PM
 #1212


How much btc did those tokens raised ,900 ?

Thanks.

yes, though they're not kept as btc but converted to fiat. since tau's beginning we got ~$250k

How that is possible? Even at a very discount price of 10 cent / agora that should be $750K at least.
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July 24, 2016, 10:10:35 PM
 #1213

How that is possible? Even at a very discount price of 10 cent / agora that should be $750K at least.

the lower price ever was 7.5 cents. and the btc price had a lot of moves over the time, some purchased were made when btc was less than $250, for example

Tau-Chain & Agoras
marechoux
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July 24, 2016, 10:19:20 PM
 #1214

How that is possible? Even at a very discount price of 10 cent / agora that should be $750K at least.

the lower price ever was 7.5 cents. and the btc price had a lot of moves over the time, some purchased were made when btc was less than $250, for example

7.5M * 0.075 = $562K and your offers are priced in $ not in btc.

So I guess it used to be priced in bitcoin but now it is in $
ohad
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July 24, 2016, 10:22:35 PM
 #1215

How that is possible? Even at a very discount price of 10 cent / agora that should be $750K at least.

the lower price ever was 7.5 cents. and the btc price had a lot of moves over the time, some purchased were made when btc was less than $250, for example

7.5M * 0.075 = $562K and your offers are priced in $ not in btc.

So I guess it used to be priced in bitcoin but now it is in $

~$250k is only since tau. there were more incomes to zennet a year before tau, but they were spent on zennet's marketing (and we also lost quite much on btc going down from 800 to 200) before tau began.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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July 24, 2016, 10:29:57 PM
 #1216

How that is possible? Even at a very discount price of 10 cent / agora that should be $750K at least.

the lower price ever was 7.5 cents. and the btc price had a lot of moves over the time, some purchased were made when btc was less than $250, for example

7.5M * 0.075 = $562K and your offers are priced in $ not in btc.

So I guess it used to be priced in bitcoin but now it is in $

~$250k is only since tau. there were more incomes to zennet a year before tau, but they were spent on zennet's marketing (and we also lost quite much on btc going down from 800 to 200) before tau began.

Ok thanks for the info.
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July 25, 2016, 08:32:29 AM
 #1217

The miner's "tax" means high transaction fees, If I understand correctly. (for example 0.25% transaction fee mentioned above is very high).
1) High transaction fees deter users.
2) Bagholders who make no transactions become free riders. In an inflationary cryptocurrency inactive bagholders have to contribute (inflation imposes invisible fees upon them)- this way even dead (lostkey) addresses contribute

And the word "tax" should be avoided in any case 
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July 25, 2016, 03:43:04 PM
 #1218

Hi ohad,

could you please ask decentralized exchange Bitsquare ( https://bitsquare.io/ ) to add Agora to their exchange?
For adding please see https://forum.bitsquare.io/t/how-to-add-your-favorite-altcoin/46
 
thx



I will ask them personally.

thx.
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July 25, 2016, 06:46:18 PM
 #1219


How much btc did those tokens raised ,900 ?

Thanks.

yes, though they're not kept as btc but converted to fiat. since tau's beginning we got ~$250k
Keep the fiat out of race & if those 7.5m tokens have raised around 800 btc then the average price is 0.00011 btc. Still above it.
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July 25, 2016, 11:27:37 PM
 #1220

Agoras price is up, NICE! Glad I invested early! Very ambitious project, but anything is possible in the crypto world.  Grin

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