what does one masternode for Bitcoin 2 bring in for BTC 2 in a 24 hour period, more or less.

a calculator for such link maybe?

Hard to look at the 1,000 coin outlay on this, without knowing the result of the standard 1,000 coin masternode return, don't ya know

brad

Again this is just a mental experiment. It was pointed out to me that (1) I may not be allowed to make a solar array at more than the Xcel 10% over my use is. Thus at present non-mining rate that means I'd have a solar array at like 2KW at best...closer to 1KW in reality..if the hard and fast 10% over rule was in play. A buddy said he looked into this a year or so back with Xcel and the solar contractors, doing the free estimate said they 'could not' overbuild beyond what Xcel would buy back. So he said screw it.

(2) If the contractors can't overbuild you could find yourself overbuilding and be caught in the same trap and NOT allowed to use your extra capacity for any use. Giant waste. Unsure about that, you'd think I could overbuild if I did it myself, but the city and state may crimp that at the bud. Something to consider. The buddy swears they told him a paid solar contractor CANNOT break that rule in this area.

(3) Assuming you COULD overbuild and Xcel was to limit you as they state to 10% over your usage per day. Where do you think the extra electric would go? Back to Xcel at no cost any/over 10% of your use. Which they check every 6 months at an average to pay you based on. Nice racket. I would have a nice RED switch box I'd shut off after my 10% limit was up, more or less. But that would suck on an overbuild.

Interesting stuff on all this. I may get no place but would be interesting to see how it all works. I may call in a couple solar contractors and such and see how this really shakes out. IF they do a free or modest fee evaluation. They also would have the background on how many days in Minnesota you actually can get any solar output. I could find out only say 7-8 months such a 9kw could meet my regular house needs. Would be overkill on a 9kw build due to cloud cover and climate, but would be good to know.

What the heck. I'm retired on crypto and I the math is no fun on pre-order miners anymore...so I can  pursue this as a 'quirk'

stuff to do

brad

---

Well..this is 'interesting' in a FML kind of way.

I got my Xcel Utility Bill today. This bill is 1/2 Winter Rates and 1/2 Summer rates as of yet.

Last Year my Summer Electric Rate was 15.1c kWh I think it was.

The current bill (including 1/2 on winter rates) was 15.6c kWh. FML.

So it is possible my rates for the next 5 months will be in excess of 17c kWh. Again. FML.

So...looking at the solar calculator now at 9KW. That comes out to according to 'dubious' solar installer calculator sites for Minnesota at about $125 a month equivalent. That will likely NOW be more or less what I'm gonna spend without Solar now for Summer rates anyway for just the house.

So my question on solar as a hedge is NOW somewhat moot. At these prices, the entire Solar output may simply be enough for my needs each month in electric on average.

This is disheartening indeed.

So now I do have to look into Solar for the same reasons as I was with mining, just to see how this all works and hurdles and such.

Likely, this is NOT going to go away. If last year was 15.1 kWh for summer rates and this year say it is 17c kWh ..then what likely next summer I'm looking at summer rates of what 18c kWh plus?

Sh*t

Well, anyway, the Avalon 821 I got as a gift (thanks steamtyme) for postage. The Bitmain S9i I got a couple of months back on a fluke are all going to the buddies data hall. (Maxumark) for much less electric rate. I may only be swap'ing electric for crypto this next month, but I'm paying month to month so what the heck.

Sheesh.

brad

---

As to the upper midwest and for purposes of this thread, I'm afraid the risk/reward is too great for such a solar bitcoin mining option, again as I said in the midwest.

On looking at the calculations in my area and the Utilities limiting what they will buy back for electric (10%) and limiting size vs the utilities buyback, I just mentioned.

It seems very unlikely in Minnesota, that any Solar will be viable with any bitcoin mining machines. From what I have found and the cloudy skies and winter and etc.

This makes little or no sense. Even IF there are 'viable' bitcoin miners in the future, it is not going to work in my area.

So, others probably in AZ or UT or some such, MAY have better values than myself.

Again, others with better utilities and/or electric rates feel free to post on here about how it may work in your area. At least I can see how it works from afar.

Brad

Ah..but Bitcoin is the original and FJC is the copy. It needs more than just faith I believe. I still think the best choice is to find another coin and development team

and see if you could merge as a new coin or something and you would have some help on all this. More than one way to win, rather than blindly following BTC core

completely. New ideas etc. Even LTC is going its own way with mimblewimble and an anon option within the wallet, etc.

IF it was me, I'd add master nodes like Bitcoin 2. You have more credibility than Bitcoin 2 by far. Since 2014. In that, we differ on how much trouble FJC is in.

I think it is 'almost' a dead coin. At best I give it 2 months, especially if it continues to die on the vine with a legit pump of Bitcoin and other altcoins.

Thus masternode option and a 1 to 1 split is not a big deal to me with that view.

Then folk would have to put up or shut up.

Put that unused and unsold FJC into masternodes....show some mining action without relying on KNC Titans (which are probably off and/or burning up rapidly after 4 years plus) or do a mix

of scypt-N up to a block and then masternodes or both.

Just saying. Not making sense at 1250 watts for one 4 cube titan making FJC I can't sell for at a 12 kWh electric bill tossing $108 a month out the window for 1 Titan. No one buying it.

HODL'ing the equivalent of say 1,000,000 FJC as a masternode doing the same hash as a knc titan..well ..hell..I could do that to promote the coin into the future.

Again, I think FJC without something is doomed like garlicoin (which abandoned scrypt-N because the KNC Titans and scrypt-N came on the scene). At least FJC did not go that route.

And also I know zip about making or maintaining coin. Just saying 10,000,000 in FJC say = 10 masternodes and all mining FJC at the same rate as say 10 KNC Titans

well hell maybe all that 'unspent' on the exchanges would generate some action. Also, of course, some other devs to help you from either other dead coins or other places

would be great. Anyway...just my daydreams. This coin needs some kind of extreme action, again, IMHO. It is fading fast in its present incarnation.

brad

Yeah, for me it would be the weather. Supposedly, without batteries in mass, you can only run these free 'maybe' on average 2/3 a day or less at best...likely much, much less. Then this being Minnesota and all and cloudy a lot and also Winter...hell, these units w/o mining could take like 20 years to pay back rather than 15 years.

I guess if I still want to do this as a 'thought experiment' because I'm bored and can't figure out ASIC Miner angles on pre-orders anymore for fun, due to tariffs...well I'd better hope I can get some free energy estimates on the 'ahem' supposed have it done by someone else. Rather than myself. (I was an apprentice electrician after 2 years of Vo-tech and also 2 years of experience...40 some years ago! I am retired on crypto so have the time.)

So stuff to do...play within the cobwebs of my mind...(damn, I need a life)

But yeah, need to talk to some professionals who have such info as weather/season/cloud cover/etc all figured out already in their presentations for this area of the Midwest.

As to the HOW much for shade etc...I have a huge dormer on the back (unfinished but big) of about I'd guess 30' by 30' at least. Looks like a frigging Helipad landing zone.

On google maps, being flat and steel roof and such that at least would be ideal. No shade issues it is too high. Of course how to get to that area of the roof w/o adding say a 'metal enclosed steel ladder set up now is debatable. Access with roof hatch? (leaking issues someday) or what.

Had a 3.5 story old crummy wood 3 level deck setup taken down in 2013 or so for siding such and the steel roof. But steel roof and all, I never bothered with easy access.

Well, at least I'm 'occupied', stuff to do.

brad

Yeah. I just miss ASIC mining and this is something to wrap my head around as an angle. I found out from my CPA you can't use this as a tax write off at 25% off gross income as you can with ASIC mining. At least the home miner aspect. I was told you could (maybe?) use this as a tax write off like equipment if it was 'separate' from your house and/or say a data hall set up for exclusive ASIC miner and crypto use in the crypto business. I'm unsure about that. Only pretty sure on the home solar kind of thing I'm thinking of does not fly as such.

Also, I have a brother and this being Minnesota he has solar at his hobby farm and his business. He did the business when you should have gotten solar panels like about  5-7 years ago. I think he got the biggest he could get then 20kw. He is grandfathered in and can sell ALL of his excesses back at the current electric rate. Found this out today talking to him.

Another reason for Sibling Envy. He does, however, HAVE excess he could use for mining. But in that, he is in a town where the electric and the utils and trash and water and such is ALL bundled and such, so he uses all of the electric to just pay for all his above bills and has no excess he wants to use miners for. This 20kw panel is at the business.

The solar he has at the hobby farm like 2 years ago, is under all the constraints now I would be at. Thus he has no surplus at all with that setup. So it goes. We need a Green Vision for the future to get this Federal and State Rebates back. That seems, unlikely indeed in these times.

Anyway.

---

I'm confused. So at say a 9KW setup. I could only run ONE S9i for free 24/7/365. Ack! I have to do some more figures. I thought I could run MORE than just ONE unit for free with a 30k investment and 21K after rebates setup. Had not gotten that far to do the math. Will have to do so later when I have time. Was mostly thinking of install costs and had not gotten drilled down that far. Kinda a self-protection thing I guess, don't want to get too far into the math and nitty gritty of a solar panel setup like I used to get into buying 'dubious' mining equipment. That is a treacherous slope of ASIC addiction. Probably why I have not drilled down that far yet.

As usual, the devil is in the details, thus why I have this thread...to stop me from my own excesses. No issue with excesses for buying pre-order dubious ASIC miners of any flavor with the 25% tariff from China the 2.6% import tax and the 'supposed' say $85 shipping DHL to the USA, as a guess on shipping.

Well, this has been something to ponder besides my lack of an ASIC miner fix anyway.

Will dig into this deeper. I have no life (thus this thread) so what the heck.

later

Brad

Yeah, that is the catch. IF for example, I got a 9KW or can put up on my flat roof (if my calcs are right) for 30k cost and real cost would be 21k after rebates/tax credit etc.

(for all I know that such rebates would disappear under the Trump Admin in 2020 anyway, which comes under the heading of 'not good'). Anyway without mining for electric, say for math I'd use 1k or so. Thus around 7k left to apply to crypto mining. Or a massive excess that I'd need to blow on a Tesla/Batteries and/or electric dry sauna.

At 21k say cost, after rebates for 9KW an equivalent say the 5KW system would only be like around at most $5,000 less or around say $15,000. Thus, it makes little sense for me to downsize or even get solar at the 5kw rate. At that point, I'm talking just the addition in cost for solar panels to get me up to the 9KW stuff.

There is a 'limit' on how low I can go that even makes sense to do this, even without the mining coming into play.

So normal Solar, no mining at the 9kw rate would take say, 15 years to pay off.

With the 'supposed' mining angle, I'd be looking at, if 'lucky' 7-8 years instead. Thus the only way solar would work for me without the mining and/or as a 'hedge' to put some crypto in something, in case the price dumps again some (at whatever point I sell crypto for the solar) well, I'd need to get a Tesla and an electric dry sauna to justify the 15 year solar from crypto install.

Pretty muddied. But for 1/2 the price of a new 'budget priced' car and as a 'hedge' for taking some crypto out and using it for something 'useful' that 'supposedly' I could get some mining benefit from (delusional perhaps) this solar install idea.

If nothing else it is a pretty good 'thought experiment' along the lines of what I used to do with thinking I either should get ASIC equipment or not back in the day. This solar angle is MORE complex and again in a large part it is based on an 'assumption' that I could get next generation (or hell even current generation) miners that would make sense heat and noise wise in my basement with this whole 'dubious' solar half-assed plan.

Stuff to do

Brad

Still, this coin (FJC) was dead till the KNC ASIC Scrypt Miners 'revived' it. (Look at the price history).

Thus, with those units out of the picture, FJC, IMHO is now fading back to obscurity.

There is no 'hook' to make FJC different from the thousands of other BTC clone coins in the universe now. The ONLY real innovation on FJC was when (I believe After? the KNC Titans

started to trickle in? I may be wrong on this) The Dev had the coin upgraded to the Seg Wit stuff and has been following such upgrades promptly from then on.

But again, this is not enough, IMHO. Every fly by night Bitcoin Clone Coin can do that now. (probably from a web generation make your own coin page)

So, unless SOMETHING comes along, besides just another exchange, I'm still dubious on FJC. This is the 'classic' pattern of coins that have disappeared and gone poof.

The old 'adapt or die', don't ya know.

The last point is to look at the last few months on the exchange Yobit. Yobit seemed to have no problem moving FJC a month or so back for cash, $$$, etc. So what has changed?

KNC Titan miners on the FJC network, most are shut off, they (I) used to use the Yobit exchange to sell some FJC and/or buy some back, etc.

Now you have like 12 million FJC for sale. AT ONE Satoshi, with days of NO buys whatsoever. The charts are 'ugly' on this. This 12 million is JUST the stuff wanting to be sold at 12 million

the sell FJC on Yobit is in 'full dump' mode as you go up to 2 and 3 satoshis.

Also, the lowest value ANY exchange, even Yobit can sell FJC or any other coin for. No, is ONE satoshi. Thus FJC looks like any other alt coin, I've held too long. Dying and will be poof!

So, I've no idea what innovation or whatever should be done on FJC, perhaps nothing is possible. I don't program or anything. Merge with some other project coin

that is in development for more help and expertise? Whatever, just saying the 'oh...it is Yobit argument' does not fly, again, IMHO, because Yobit was not an issue

while the KNC Titan network was stronger. Anyway, end of rant. But on 2nd thought to merge this coin with another coin and the combo of developers to take

some pressure of Motty and 'do something' innovative with FJC/merger, in some manner, is the only thing I can think of.

Tough, to try and do FJC by your lonesome IMHO.

End of rant. I know zip. Just saying, why I'd sell, if anyone was buying, rather than HODL FJC. But the reality is you can't sell on ANY exchange, the Yobit issue does not

help, but there is simply no reason for anyone to buy FJC at this point in time. At the bottom at 1 satoshi, there are a heck of alot more reasons to dump this coin.

Brad

Not gonna work for me. Maybe the guy in Oregon. I'm at 12c kWh. (sh*t maybe I should contact the guy in Oregon...no help here in the midwest)

Whatsminer m21 stats

Here is the profit ratio now at my 12c kWh. (groan!)

https://www.asicminervalue.com/miners/microbt/whatsminer-m21


Period      

Income     /day     $11.65 (0.0012 BTC)   

            /month   $349.46 (0.0381 BTC)    

           /year    $4,193.56 (0.4576 BTC)

As a guess, I'd take the above and toss half of the income from the calculator away. Guessing on 1) end of August/Sept Delivery 2) The difficulty rise (Bitmain see below) and

folks turning on their old ASIC equipment, IF, the price shoots past 10k USD. (again a guess)

sheesh...I need to frigging move to Oregon. I assume there is also a 25% China Tariff on these, plus the 2.6% import fee and calculated shipping to the USA was $85 estimate.

Things tend to pile up. Anyway, for what it is worth, what my calculations show.

Do your own calculations but with above it may even be too rich for Oregon Electric Rates.

p.s. Also, remember Bitmain in conjunction with Hydro Electric utility partnerships for 'unused' excess hydroelectric power (they also have had a lot of rain, etc) Anyway, Bitmain

is gonna spend the summer blowing up BTC difficulty through the summer they have announced. More than one way to use that excess Bitmain equipment!

All and All, at least till around September with Bitmain and above and *hopefully* Tariff relief by then in the USA...the ancient Chinese curse applies: May you live in interesting times!

Well, at least I know where I stand on this. No miner for me land.

I'm retired on crypto. The train of thought in my retirement last year 1/1418 was I'd have enough to have the same 35k or so lifestyle I had before, till 2021 and 2 months for full-time retirement and access to traditional retirement funds, even if Crypto/BTC went full "Tulips". I also assumed I'd have enough ALT coins to make that 3-year bridge selling them off to cover those 3 years of working at about $35k the 3-year gap retire early $35k and of course even if crypt/BTC went full tulips, same about 32K a year off traditional investments...so looked pretty straight forward.

One does not expect a 75% Loss or more on BTC price and/or 90% or more on altcoins. Thus pretty much used MOST of my altcoins in 1 year to keep retired...and panic sold (sorry real-world issues with above crypto/BTC dump in price) 10% of my Bitcoin Hoard. IT WAS UGLY.

Thus the 'hedge' analogy of this thread on the next pump over 10k say...I may not do as well in HODL mode watching that and remembering the 'horror' of the last pump and dump in crypto. Just saying.

So being 1) greedy 2) like to mine 3) used to use the equipment and double down the solar type of money back in the day on makeing more crypto in miners going out than they cost...the solar angle/thread here

As to what you say, 1/3 cash ..er...nope...all retirement till 66 and 2 months for a full boat is coming out of crypto, baring an emergency.

1/3 crypto already figured into above

1/3 solar and miner for, as you state above I get that...

Still pondering it. It is likely more prudent than getting a better car. (2005 Ford Taurus to be like 'Batman' and move in 'stealth' people never suspecting  I have any BTC or crypto. Ninja Like.)

This is also is Minnesota. So some reduction (what 1/3) due to cloudy days and winter etc? compared to Arizona?

Also, on the other side, supposedly something like this would pay off in say, at worst, 15 years as a backup to if mining in no matter ever worked?

Also, as stated in the previous post a 9KW setup is like $5k more than a say 5KW setup, at that point you may as well go the full 9K setup, even if you can't use (without mining) anything more than 1kw out of the 8k capacity. The Xcel utility NOT paying any more than your electric use the last 6 months hurts.

A catch 22. IF your using miners with the solar you don't want to sell back to Xcel your 10% over at market rates of 12c kWh. Then when you DO want to sell to Xcel, because miners are fading, you can only do so for 6 months, then they re-look and screwed again.

Well, stuff to ponder. Hopefully, this thread will help those NOT in quite the fix I am with location/12kWh prices (yech!) and such.

I'll run some more figures. Figure out how much of a hedge I want to go toward solar vs crypto hodl mode, as a back up. But again, like everyone else I'm greedy. I want to hedge with the solar but using mining to get out of my hedge (even if only in $$$ spent and not crypto) in like 7-8 years max.

Maybe, that is no longer possible. Also, don't forget about the 'noise' or data hall versions of miners in the future. This probably has to be farmed out as working with used miners as well, even if not as good as 'next generation miners' I assume will come out someday in 2020?

Sorry for the rambling, but all this has a lot of moving parts indeed. Does not help when you talk to Xcel and all they want to do is lock you into a solar plan at a fixed rate on your roof or their solar farm or other things were 'supposedly' you are supporting solar..but they are controlling your prices etc could be worse. Hawaii has the most solar and they buy back nothing. Now the thermal plant they had to make solar got covered by lava and they are driving even more people to solar completely and sending the meters back. At least Minnesota is not that bad (yet)

Anyway, will do more figuring and whining and such and post results in the future.

Thanks, Philipma1957 as always you are very helpful.

brad

---

On Further Pondering. (posted this on the wrong thread and deleted...may as well post it where I was supposed to in the first place)

The biiggest catch I have is Xcel Electric Utility (Midwest USA) will ONLY buy back 10% over of what you use on average from the previous year of use.

Then they re-check it every 6 months.

Thus when 'mining' I would NOT want to sell the electric back. This would leave me with 6 months of selling at a larger rate the 10% they would buy back for only 6 months. Amazing, how the utilities SAY they want you to go solar, or renewable, but if you overbuild and put back in the EXISTING electrical net...they limit you.

Even though from a logic point of view it makes much more sense $$ wise because the infrastructure is already in place and it is a win/win.

You are simply running the meter backward frame of mind.

But the utility can't do that or they can't make any money on their own renewable or solar farms they push of wind generators. etc.

GASP, what would happen if a MESS of folk, took the risk and put up 3x the capacity that they needed and sold 2x the excess back to the utilities?

No control and no $$$ for control by the utilities. Extra electric would flow back into the existing electrical infrastructure and no need for new plants ...stock would fall...billionaires would drop down to multi-millionaires. Chaos rules. etc, etc.

Everyone says they want 'entrepreneurs but here is an example of how well it would work and it is stopped cold. I guess I should not complain. It is probably a miracle that technology has gotten to the point with solar that they even have to pay you back for 10% of your over surplus electric that just meets your home electrical needs.

Again, I know 'zip' thus this thread. Just pondering such solar options. There was a day I'd drop 20k on miner equipment without care on a hedge over just going HODL mode with what BTC and Crypto I had at the time. So I'm just kinda pondering this for the hell of it.

(6 years an ASIC miner now is like being a Zepplin/Dirigible Pilot Captain....all that 6 years of ASIC miner expertise and skills and 'poof' no way to use it anymore)

Later.

Gonna go out for drinks with the Buggie Makers and the Whale Oil Distribution folks to drown our sorrows.

Brad

Could be true. I have a large exhaust fan in the bsmt with hood. I did run like about watts or at 1,250 watts each 8 KNC Titan Scypt Miners back in the day and kept them cool. In th basement in the Summertime.

This was about 12,500 watts 24/7. But those units are 'quiet' not at the high decibel range of say a Bitmain S9i BTC miner for example.

Again, the noise would likely be the issue. Maybe the heat is more an issue with more modern stuff say that would come out in 2020.

As I said, this is a 'hedge' on spending some BTC or Crypto if we have a massive pump, this time around again, and some 'cushion' with 'benefits' if BTC or crypto was to dump. Thus the hedge comment.

The off-hand trend I've seen (I could be wrong) is KNC Jupiter Miner 2013 (noisy) KNC Titan Scrypt Miner (cubes) not, Bitmain units (noisy) ...so every other generation of miners seems to be loud and then the improvement the next generation is quieter and rinse/wash/repeat. Again, I'm kinda guessing on this I 20/20 hindsight, but I think that WAS a trend. As to the future, if things go full data hall, noise and airflow issues and like Spondoolies 15K units for said data halls. Well, if you did the solar hedge your backup would be 1) Tesla 2) electric dry Sauna in Basement 3) an ROI of like 14 years

Damn, it would be nice to hedge on solar 1 year ahead of next generation of any flavor miners in 2020 thru say 2021. In my area average for a year electric rates is the issue 12c kWh. Thus, this could very well be the ONLY real option I have on 'self-controlled' mining for fun and profit with equipment on hand.

Will be interesting if I DON'T do this in any manner, what I would think IF a mess of next-generation miners did come out and save the day at the end of say 2019 and 2020.

Hell, probably just a pipe dream. I miss mining. With solar even if it took 14 years to pay back or more. At least I'd have something to watch at home and diddle with.

(The ASIC Addiction is strong in this one)


Biggest catch I have is they ONLY will buy back 10% over of what you use on average from the previous year of use. Then they re-check it every 6 months.

Thus when 'mining' I would NOT want to sell the electric back. This would leave me with 6 months of selling at a larger rate the 10% they would buy back for only 6 months. Amazing, how the utilities SAY they want you to go solar, or renewable, but if you overbuild and put back in the EXISTING electrical net...they limit you.

Even though from a logic point of view it makes much more sense $$ wise because the infrastructure is already in place and it is a win/win.

You are simply running the meter backward frame of mind.

But the utility can't do that or they can't make any money on their own renewable or solar farms they push of wind generators. etc.

GASP, what would happen if a MESS of folk, took the risk and put up 3x the capacity that they needed and sold 2x the excess back to the utilities?

No control and no $$$ for control by the utilities. Extra electric would flow back into the existing electrical infrastructure and no need for new plants ...stock would fall...billionaires would drop down to multi-millionaires. Chaos rules. etc, etc.

Everyone says they want 'entrepreneurs but here is an example of how well it would work and it is stopped cold. I guess I should not complain. It is probably a miracle that technology has gotten to the point with solar that they even have to pay you back for 10% of your over surplus electric that just meets your home electrical needs.

Again, I know 'zip' thus this thread. Just pondering such solar options. There was a day I'd drop 20k on miner equipment without care on a hedge over just going HODL mode with what BTC and Crypto I had at the time. So I'm just kinda pondering this for the hell of it.

(6 years an ASIC miner now is like being a Zepplin/Dirigible Pilot Captain....all that 6 years of ASIC miner expertise and skills and 'poof' no way to use it anymore)

Later.

Gonna go out for drinks with the Buggie Makers and the Whale Oil Distribution folks to drown our sorrows.

Brad

Even if such exists in the USA, likely, IMHO it would still not allow 'Tokens' like LISK to be traded. Why bother, at that point a year or so down the road by the time

this exchange exists in the USA. Such token issues would already be resolved or still banned. Binance, IMHO would still have to be 'completely' disconnected from its

the overseas counterpart for this to work, just no way, IMHO, you can have an unregulated foreign exchange still have connections with a KYC fully vested USA exchange of the same

name etc. That just is NOT gonna fly in any manner, IMHO.

Yeah, this was more of a 'time-capsule' revive the thread thing. Just to show folk how frigging fast stuff moved in the past.

Something to be aware of on a 'repeat' say, in the next year. I should have acted faster in 20/20 hindsight to move some coin

when BTC was above 15k in price. Alas, the 'kool-aid' drinking price expectations were 'high' for me in 2018. Now I may just play more hedge games

and spend some on something like Solar, in case home mining comes back. A trip, etc.

But kinda amazing how fast things moved at the end of the bubble. I guess live and learn, that why they call it a 'bubble' and you should watch out for such.

Live and Learn I hope on the next go around.

Note: Folk who keep asking me about WHY my prices don't work for solar in my area and/or elec rates as they relate to solar will have to contact me via PM.
Any talk about electric utility prices as regards to solar and estimates seem to be always deleted by the Bitcointalk moderators. Such content for whatever reason must be a no/no and has to be done via PM. (I don't get this I play this game on elec rates vs mining equip all the time in those threads). Whatever.
Bitcointalk is not mine to run. Such is how it is. FYI.

Ok. I think this is the correct subtopic for this, in that it is 2019 and NOTHING seems viable as to ASIC equipment of ANY flavor. I'm fishing for an angle/hedge like the ASIC equipment days.
As this relates to mining crypto, from 2013 till 2018, I used equipment as a 'hedge' against downturns in price and for tax write offs (not applicable as biz with home mining though..ouch!)
In those years. (Yeah, should have done more in 2018, but who expects a 75% plus drop in BTC and Crypto in general). This worked quite well. A little equipment, some HODL, some caution.
Looking at Solar with Xcel in the upper Midwest the 'bastards' will only buy back (Winter Rate 10c kWh, Summer rate 12c kWh) 10% more than your use
back into the grid. Grrr...So my plan to use $100 and sell back $200 into the grid, is not gonna fly.

So, with that took the wind out of my sales.

Before I knew this, I researched that it would be about 30k to put up a 9 KW Solar Setup on the large flat rear dormer of my house. AFTER rebates,
(not sure if they even will exist next year under Trump Administration)
It was knocked down to about 21k more or less. Anyway 'rough' idea of what it would cost yet in 2019.
So I'd use this without mining about MAYBE average 1 KW or approximately. Say at ave yearly of 12 kWh. Kinda/Sorta.
That comes out to about $120 a month. That is maybe high, but lets go with that.
Best case I have 8 KW a month of 'un-used' power from the solar panel above setup.
A solar setup like the above of say only 5 KW or so install would still be like 12K. Comes a point you need the basic equipment anyway, so that don't downsize well.

Well, you can see where I'm going.

As a 'hedge' for this 'overcapacity' you, of course, COULD supposedly buy miner equipment in the future. Likely would have to be the next generation and of course
for that to happen you'd need a corresponding revival of BTC and crypto prices. Used, would likely by that point in difficulty of whatever coin your POW mining be 'iffy'. Though.
Thus, assuming that is the case, with the solar panels already up BEFORE said miner equipment exits, as a hedge, against all your crypto in 1 basket, etc.
and supposedly 'if' 'new' miners came back into play and worthwhile doing this with an 'existing' solar setup ready for such.

Well, you could have your cake and eat it to. Hedging BTC into solar in case of a downturn
or sideways action and setup for miners to come back in the future that you could use this setup to recoup the setup solar costs in say 7 years vs 14 years plus.

The catch of course is 'will' there ever be BTC and crypto equipment in the future worth doing that makes sense on the above hedge/solar/guess?
The only way I can see that such would work is now in the 'dredges' of 2019, you could do the solar setup, ahead of any appropriate miner equipment of any ASIC flavor.
Worse case, mining never comes back and you have 'cute' solar overcapacity setup. (Put in an electric sauna?).

Best case scenario, you'd be positioned with your hedge to then undercut practically everyone with say 6-8 KW of power to next-generation mining, with the next ONLY risk,
the miners in question. Again, remember this is a 'hedge' position in the sense, taking some crypto you may be able to get back thru mining trickery in the future, and at worse
you get solar for your house, by using 'some' crypto with this hedge. Also, of course, the 'supposed' future next generation miner 'hedge' you can then exploit in the future with

solar already in play, in say 2020 or 2021. This is 'imperfect' but, IMHO, I may get a 'bit' sketchy at say a BTC price of say 10k plus and want to bleed some out for home

improvement use. This seems a way that may work. Of course, IF I am completely wrong, then my next 'hedge' would be to buy an electric Tesla as my next hedge. Heh!.

Called having my cake and eating it too. ( Could be I just want a solar roof toy and then the justification for a Tesla...I guess I can also work with that if the future

next generation miners never work out) Many 'Toys' in either result!

What do you think? Take the poll.

Brad

Note: Moderators on Bitcointalk will not let me stray into the economics of elec rates in my area on how solar is or is not gonna work. Thus you need to PM for specifics. Such
posts keep getting deleted.

bump

(the good old days time warp)

Jeez...what is your electric...like 3c kWh or something...I thought these D3's at any price were simply 'space heaters' for the Summer..at this

point in time!

brad

I myself like the '$10 million dollars' to run a NODE offer to major corporations and pegged to 'many' currencies, not just the USA dollar. Talk about wanting nothing

but 'control' indeed!

https://bitcoinist.com/visa-paypal-10-million-run-facebook-coin-node/'

sheesh, it is like GAW and Paycoin 'reborn'

Well..hate to sound like 'sour grapes' but again to me, Sia-Tech is 'almost' perfectly following the ButterFly Labs scam. As long as they 'ship' a product (miners) no matter how

late. The SEC will simply go after the corporation and bankrupt such, with the 'principals' just walking away with Bitcoin from the equipment purchases.

Now 'supposedly' I was 'supposed' to be paid back about $610 or some such to my blockchain on Jan 31st, 2018. But nothing. No reason, just zippo.

This again, IMHO, was just a 'way' to get folk to 'spend' that supposed 'refund' on equipment batches that are dubious at best at this point in time.

The end game seems clear to me, coin speculation and massive difficulty with no storage option at the same level..in fact nowhere near that level. The same

for equipment. What is it 6 batches of Sia-Tech ASIC equipment and again (repeating myself) NO corresponding level of storage solution, again at the level

of these other two legs of this 3 legged stool...it again, seems to me, that Sia-Tech is using the model of BFL to wrangle their way out of a dubious method

of cryptocurrency mining and equipment over-kill, without any real 'storage solution' as they claim at the end of this exercise. Indeed BFL did the same, keeping

all the equipment (mining such) and benefiting from the BTC pump in price and then letting the corporation take the fall. This is a USA thing, miner makers have

an 'out' as long as they 'ship something' and are incorporated. We will see. Chump or Champ. But the silence is 'deafening' on where my supposed 'rebate' they

promised me and others for 1st batch equipment delays. Kinda put up or shut up time. Shut me up, I'd prefer to be wrong, just seeing this as a 'dwindling' likelihood

at this point in time.

I'm sorry, this coin is so 'dead' in its current format. It is back to 2014 till about 2018 before the KNC Titans came into play for the pools...without some kind of massive changes
(of which I don't have a clue) this coin (FJC) will go 'right back' to obscurity. You innovate or you die. Just with the current hooks and stuff with FJC and just following the bitcoin
core updates..simply is NOT enough. I use the fact of the 'lack of any' action on buys the last couple months of any note (IMHO) on youbit.

Whatever, was fun while it lasted. But a coin that has 11 million sells and no buys for days on end, is not too encouraging.

brad

Still don't understand DT. But then again, I'm likely never to be considered for such...er ...whatever it is..er confusing (yeah read the thread on this still confused)

moving on to things I can ponder. (blocks/ants/toe jam)