I see no compelling reason to believe that the dollar is "inevitably" going to plummet in the next decade.
I'm sure Gorbachev said the exact same thing about the Ruble in the late 1980s.  PS- The USD has already plummeted from 20001913-present, and this trend will only accelerate. Ftfy. |
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Why is the case just by itself cost $1200.00?
If you run it yourself you will have to research exactly how to connect the boards together. And then properly connect to a computer. It will cost a lot more (in time alone) to design something like that. I'm thinking of having them host the boards instead. The power supply and the fans. Sounds like a real hassle to me. Not some simple little case. Since I haven't done any mining. I'm wondering how much trouble it will be to configure to a mining pool? Get it running for the first time? My power company likes to gouge you if you use too much electricity instead of a linear charge per Kilowatt. In my situation it might be more practical to have them host the boards. The boards will be powered using PCI power connectors like the ones on a regular computer power supply. The boards will have an I2C connection to chain multiple boards together. The boards will connect to a host machine or router with a usb cable. The boards will work with cgminer, so setting it up on a pool should not be a problem. The boards will use 32 watts each, so each board will look like a light bulb to your power company. So even a complete newbie should be able to use/set these up effectively even with the board-only option? I am a newbie. I tried several miners with nothing but trouble. Cgminer worked the first try. |
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I don't know whether I am going with a Klondike design or KNC at this point, but either way I intend to point my first 24 hours at BkkCoins wallet. The man is a soldier and deserves the support of the community.
I will probably go with several different machines as time goes by, and he will get a piece every time. I hope he makes a fortune on this. He deserves it.
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Name: giorgiomassa Date Registered: May 07, 2013, 02:31:07 PM "We have been assembling prototypes of Bitcoin miners since 2010, when GPUs used to be the best choice. Going rapidly through some FPGA mining prototypes, we are now selling bitcoin mining devices based on Avalon’s A3256Q48 ASIC mining chip, while in the meantime our Research & Development team is already working on our own, next generation high performance ASIC mining chip." http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=29Bullshits. This deal is similar to TerraHash and BitAxe, hence scam. I find it incredible how little content is needed for many here to send money out. Looook, they have few PCBs and website, they must be legit! Just out of increasingly vicious curiosity, wats Your deal? Order a bunch of BFL units and trying to keep the game slow in the hope they will deliver? Or do you just get a thrill pissing on people's rainbow? |
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This page looks so much better with Bitcoinrama, Bargraphics and idee2013 ignored. Goodbye, retards!
might as well add me while you're at it, since my (researched) opinion is congruent with theirs thus far. I actually have no skin in the game as of yet, but am watching very closely. From where I sit, knc is looking very good. I would prefer a US based company for the reason of easier access, but right now there are no such companies likely to deliver and be competitive with these units. Really only Terrahash seems viable in the US, and they are not as capable as KNC appears to be. They are within 800 miles of my current location, however, and that is an important factor. Edited for auto destructcorrect errors. |
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For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.
Not quiet right as an EMP bomb can be as small as a brief case for localised jobs or vehicle mounted for capital city deployments. Sources - don't ask  true. However, this would only have a limited, local effect. The scope of the OP was, imao,much larger in scale as to have more than a momentary effect on bit coin or the internet. |
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Capitalism- an historical era where the means of production and products belonged exclusively to moneyed entrepreneurs, state officials, and speculators due to state protection of legal claims to privateized property.
There, does that not cover both communism and capitalism as they have always existed?
Well, of course not, but at least it's a start. What you seem to be railing against could be either corporatism (i.e. fascism) or merchantilism, or both; but it's certainly not capitalism in it's natural form. Both of those could be considered corrupted versions of capitalism, so I can see the confusion, but one should be willing to start with first principles. The first principle is this... Who owns you? Is there anyone who has a greater claim upon your body, thus your life, then yourself? If we cannot agree that I own myself and that you own yourself, as nominally free adults, then we can't proceed. My body is an object, it is owned by me. The systemic, unidealized process of selling my labor for a wage or other price is not dissimilar to slavery. I cannot sell my labor for a fair price, because my labor cannot be returned to me. I can be coerced into selling my labor by circumstances beyond my control, namely the stigma of joblessness, the risk of homelessness and starvation, the boot of the cop, the irs agent and the soldier. Who has a claim on my labor? Every living person has a fraction of a claim as long as they don't put me on their books as an employee. Mutual aid, not greed or euphamisms for it drive the evolution of the world. Capitalism is dying. Ive read and studied The Wealth of Nations. These ideologies are not new to me. I prefer Murray Bookchin. Yall ought not patronize so hard. haven't read Bookchin, and will remedy it. Didn't intend to be patronizing. Sorry if I came off that way. I'm a pedant  |
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Just curious, do you two really consider me to be the dickwad, here?
i do. Not that I care, but why? I don't see what makes him a dickwad (I didn't go through all the pages though) a) his reply(it hurts me very deeply  ) If I thought you were capable of feeling emotions, I might believe you. Great! now you don't even understand what lack of emphaty means. You just getting stupider and stupider... b) he can't see that NAP is inconsistent, and refuses to accept that a state can be a good choice. Explaining it with his "fact" about states, with that it kills people who chooses not to behave in a certain way, and then failing to see that the NAP does the same. The difference being that a State kills people who have done no harm to others, and a NAP-respecting person only kills people in defense. when they don't behave in a certain way, yes? No. when they DO behave in a certain way. As in aggression against me. If it's you or it's me, it's you. OTOH, if you leave me alone or respect my self, space and property, I'll never deliberately give you offense. Now contrast that to the state which will cage you and/or kill you simply over some words on a page written by somebody with no ideas that didn't come from "above" and who fears change and loves power. if it offends me, that you say that i can't commit an aggression against you, you have commited an aggression against me. No. It doesn't. It offends you. Speech in public has no bearing on your actions, save what you make of it. Thoughts are not evil in themselves, and the transmission of them is how people are naturally equipped to interact. Aggression is ACTION, not speech. Me, I prefer a layered approach to the NAP as a practical matter. In straight truth, while my philosophy is as above, I also hate killing. So I would, if you were attacking me, try to first control the situation. It would not be my GOAL to kill you, if I could dissuade you instead. And were I unable to dissuade you but gain the upper hand, I would disable you preferentially to killing you. If, OTOH, you get in my face and call me a cocksucker, I'll either say something back or walk away. No HARM done, only ruffled feathers. And harm is the crux of the argument. An it harm no one, do what thou wilt. That old rede is a good moral compass, as opposed to Mr. Crowley's counter "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". Anarchists generally choose the former, though with more modern formal language. States ALWAYS choose the latter, because the only check on their actions is how many people they can misdirect. |
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Hosting with some quick and dirty math is 300-400Euro per unit, per month.
What did you base this assumption on. Just asking, because colocation of a "normal" server at e.g. Pionen datacenter in Sweden is priced about 70+ Euro a month. If the difficulty continue to rise - and that's the main goal of KNCMiner - there won't be any spare 50$ to shed on hosting What I'm not seeing any of you address when you harp on the difficulty rising is the FACT that these devices are the first wave of machines that are DESIGNED to handle that increase. NRE is expensive, once it's recovered the cost of manufacture is not that great. This isn't an all or nothing game. Yeah, it just got more complicated and will have to get more professional just to cope, but that's the price of beginning to go mainstream. If bitcoin is to succeed in the long term, these are things that are GOING to happen. Those that manage to get in on the beginning are going to make a mint, for a minute. That doesn't mean that all profits will thereafter immediately vanish. |
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Capitalism- an historical era where the means of production and products belonged exclusively to moneyed entrepreneurs, state officials, and speculators due to state protection of legal claims to privateized property.
There, does that not cover both communism and capitalism as they have always existed?
Well, of course not, but at least it's a start. What you seem to be railing against could be either corporatism (i.e. fascism) or merchantilism, or both; but it's certainly not capitalism in it's natural form. Both of those could be considered corrupted versions of capitalism, so I can see the confusion, but one should be willing to start with first principles. The first principle is this... Who owns you? Is there anyone who has a greater claim upon your body, thus your life, then yourself? If we cannot agree that I own myself and that you own yourself, as nominally free adults, then we can't proceed. True, but also don't ignore the validity of Kittn's point that: The difference between the philosophic capitalism and what is in practice are not the same. Using the same word for both is confusing. "Communism" likewise. "Anarchy" as well. The terms are appropriated by popular culture and media. This is the thing that frustrates the hell out of me. These words have specific philosophies behind them that have come to mean other things. I'm finally on the road today, but when I get back online I'm going to have written up a rather long treatise on my take on the subject(s). It's gonna start with working definitions. As I've noted elsewhere, capitalism is an economic theory, not a political one. I am a capitalist, philosophically, because every system of economics out there is based on the mechanics of capitalism despite railing against it. Kittn, your point is valid, but it's also proof of mine. Insomuch as the moneyed people had the LEGAL RIGHT OF INFRINGEMENT because of buying or subverting the political entities, they often screwed people over. Do gooders, regardless of economic beliefs, are the most dangerous people on earth because they will oppress the hell out of you on the (mistaken) premise that they know what's best for you. I would honestly rather deal with a straight up thief than a do gooder. I suspect that New Liberty, Moonshadow, Myrkul and others in that vein have already done so, but Kittn and Zarathrusta (and anyone who hasn't) should read The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith AND For a New Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard to get a better understanding of what ancaps and voluntaryists mean when we use the word capitalism. Otherwise we end up battling strawmen that you probably didn't mean to create. It is an unfortunate truth that words often have multiple meanings, and that just as often leads us astray in our proposals and arguments. |
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But yes, that was his goal. His means, however, don't work. He is elegant though. The communist manifesto is beautiful. Seductive, in fact. Unfortunate that it's core program just don't work.
It may not work, but folks are working toward it anyhow. Marx/Engels may have had a more profound effect on US politics than many of his contemporary presidents. Seems like we are following his playbook more than not: http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.htmlpoliticians never let pesky things like reality get in the way of plundering us making our lives miserable surreal better. |
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Remortgaging your house to invest that money in a business is absolutely reckless. But it's true that risking your own money is something that someone who runs a business does on a daily basis.
Let's be honest, this thing of being able to gather massive funds from customers, risking nothing of your own money while enjoying big potential gains is a wet dream come true for any business. But it's certainly not the vendors fault, it's the market who brings this opportunity on the table.
You can bet that as soon as there is an established and reliable provider, shipping ASIC immediately at reasonable prices, this preorder madness will come to an end. From that point, potential competitors will have to fund new products risking their own money, and not the customers money.
Pre-orders are like getting free loans. You won't get that anywhere but in bitcoin madness industry. You shoulda seen IBM circa 1979. A gold rush, regardless of whether it's the real thing, is nothing new. All I've seen in 1979 were my toys I didn't get my first PC til about 82... Been playin' with computers since I was a little kid. I also had a TRS-80 model 2 in 79, but the Altair was more fun. |
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First post outside of the newbie forums finally!
I've been watching you guys and want to send some cheers your way!! I had to wait for my account to get past the newbie limits (4 hours and 5 posts in the newbie forum).
I've got my bitcoins ready for purchase with you guys. Only 1 question though, how much for shipping to Canada? Toronto specifically?
You would be better off registering an account on their website and asking there. Terrahash is sporadic in maintaining this thread. That's not a dig, They just are busy. |
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If ancaps arent utopian, anarchists arent either. An ideal world is a stateless world. capitalism and communism are impossible in a stateless world.
Capitalism (private ownership of the means of production, voluntary trade of products and services - including those privately-owned means of production) works just fine in a stateless world. On communism. Marx also expected communism to result in a stateless world, and the withering away of the state, as people worked toward a common good without coercion, and that the state would disappear out of obsolescence, yes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_stateSeems naive today, but that was his idea. Well, really Engels. Marx got the credit, but Engels was the brains of the outfit. Just couldn't write for shit, and good ol' Karl could But yes, that was his goal. His means, however, don't work. He is elegant though. The communist manifesto is beautiful. Seductive, in fact. Unfortunate that it's core program just don't work. I think his more anarchic contemporaries such as Bakunin and Kropotkin were closer to something real, but again their systems require that no one has any different ideas, thus it requires coercion and top-down hierarchies, while denouncing them. (yeah, still here. Got delayed another day. Moving was so much easier when I didn't have a family  ) |
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Remortgaging your house to invest that money in a business is absolutely reckless. But it's true that risking your own money is something that someone who runs a business does on a daily basis.
Let's be honest, this thing of being able to gather massive funds from customers, risking nothing of your own money while enjoying big potential gains is a wet dream come true for any business. But it's certainly not the vendors fault, it's the market who brings this opportunity on the table.
You can bet that as soon as there is an established and reliable provider, shipping ASIC immediately at reasonable prices, this preorder madness will come to an end. From that point, potential competitors will have to fund new products risking their own money, and not the customers money.
Pre-orders are like getting free loans. You won't get that anywhere but in bitcoin madness industry. You shoulda seen IBM circa 1979. A gold rush, regardless of whether it's the real thing, is nothing new. |
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actually been following it the whole time. I will not be preordering anything. I simply cannot afford the risk. Whoever demonstrates working product AND shipping gets my custom. However, I don't think they're scamming, and even PG has conceded that maybe they aren't the scum of the earth. And that boy would question free gold. Not that that is all bad, skeptics are helpful in many ways.
But, if they start taking pre-orders now and you wait till they show a product, you will be way behind in the pre-orders. And by the time you get your machine, difficulty will be really high! So I think if you want some reward, you have to take some risk. True. But their business model is that once they start shipping, they aren't doing "batches", they're doing continuous production, so I won't be that far behind. I'm not trying to get rich on this one hit. Not that I would mind, but I'm trying to build several businesses long term. I'm tired of working for other people. They get the rewards, I get poorer and poorer. This is something that to me is part of a strategy, not just a quick hit. As it currently stands, I'm not comfortable with the level of risk. By august, when/if they have working prototypes (either one of these bad boys) I'll have more confidence. I cannot afford to go all in on one possibility right now, but spreading the risk involves waiting. I'm not a patient man, but between being a father and just starting to get old, I've learned to fake it very well  |
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Wise words. I'm climbing down off my high horse now and wishing you guys all the best. My wife bought me a Tee shirt that reads "to save time let's just assume that I'm right" so if you'd like to save time...... I'm still very much rooting for the success of this project. I've just got cautious in my old age. Anyway it was good sparring with you. Politics and religion next? G'night all Since I got delayed AGAIN, I have to say it's too bad you're off to bed. I'm up for politics and religion (evil leering grin) Ah well, guess I'll get that shot in a couple of weeks. Related to the actual thread, I've actually thought your worthy opponent has taken the middle road all the way through this thread. As have I. I am actually willing to go in debt for one of their machines, but not on a pre-order. Once they are actually delivering and I can properly assess the risk. By then there may be other players, but other than a couple of people, particularly terrahash and steamboat, who are building Klondike/avalon boards, I don't see anyone actually delivering anything impressive in that time frame. BFL is still dicking around with a couple hundred 5 GH/s rigs, nearly two months after they finally "started delivering", ASICMiner is too expensive right now, and Avalon is amateurish. Impressive amateurs to be sure, but not really ready for the big time. I'm hoping these guys can pull it off. And as Bitcoinorama has pointed out, there is no way of knowing if somebody is quietly developing ASIC bitcoin miners in the dark. Despite some "wow that's magic" thinking that seems to follow anything technical, 28nm is not that technically impressive, just expensive. I lived and am about to go bach to Boise, Idaho and I could point you to two fabs there that are fully capable of it. There are a couple others there that probably could do it. Micron and Zilog for damn sure. And that's just one tech center. Silicon valley hasn't even popped their head up on this yet, nor New Jersey. That's just in the US. I'm sure you EU guys could point out another bunch of fabricators that are capable of it. The initial duopoly that currently exists is a bonanza for those involved. Unfortunately for them, the market will not allow that to continue. ASICS or possibly even something better will come out to compete. I've been in the tech game to some degree since I was a little kid, and the one thing that has been constant is that today's "unsurpassed" new gadget will be obsolete by the time it gets to market. At present, KNC looks to be the best game in town. By August, we should all know for sure. As somebody else posted not long ago: Isn't life about the strangest thing you've ever done? |
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Just curious, do you two really consider me to be the dickwad, here?
i do. Not that I care, but why? I don't see what makes him a dickwad (I didn't go through all the pages though) a) his reply(it hurts me very deeply ) If I thought you were capable of feeling emotions, I might believe you. Great! now you don't even understand what lack of emphaty means. You just getting stupider and stupider... b) he can't see that NAP is inconsistent, and refuses to accept that a state can be a good choice. Explaining it with his "fact" about states, with that it kills people who chooses not to behave in a certain way, and then failing to see that the NAP does the same. The difference being that a State kills people who have done no harm to others, and a NAP-respecting person only kills people in defense. when they don't behave in a certain way, yes? No. when they DO behave in a certain way. As in aggression against me. If it's you or it's me, it's you. OTOH, if you leave me alone or respect my self, space and property, I'll never deliberately give you offense. Now contrast that to the state which will cage you and/or kill you simply over some words on a page written by somebody with no ideas that didn't come from "above" and who fears change and loves power. |
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So is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Manning's "treason", as patriotism will always be labeled, is minor compared to that REGULARLY committed by the government trying him.
Actually, under the constitutional definition of treason, Manning would have to be proved to have done harm against the STATES, not the FedGov, and to have caused harm by giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Despite these arguments being deliberately absented at the show trial.
They have a better case for embezzelment than treason.
As for your comments about the proper chain of command, those are the very people that are outed by these leaks. Telling Al Capone that he's doing something questionable to his face is imprudent. Catch-22.
I'd like to think you aren't as ignorant of the facts as you appear. But I've unfortunately met a lot of you flag wavin' "my country, right or wrong" sorts, and you probably are. YOU are a bigger threat to the people of these former states than Mr. Manning, OR Julian Assange, who is NOT the "enemy". Last I checked, Australia (and all commonwealth nations) are formal allies of the US Imperial court.
Two things. First, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, your knowledge of the law is nonexistent, and your silly freeman constitutionalist reading of the law is not supported or interpreted the same way by the justice system. What he did was treason whether you personally believe it or not. Second, crimes committed by people at all levels of government (up to and including the president) are successfully investigated and tried by the government on a daily basis. You can ignore this fact all you like, but it doesn't change the fact. Manning was too much of a coward to actually stand up for his convictions, so he tried to hide behind a computer and got caught. If he wanted to be a whistleblower, there are perfectly legal ways to do so (none of which endanger American lives). No, my love of the law is nonexistent. Every single thing that the anti-federalists warned against in abandoning the articles of confederation has come to pass, including a government that has ALL the power. We all know damn well that this leak was embarrassing to the highest levels of the diplomatic corps for doing just exactly what they were bombing other people for. Had you followed this story outside of Faux news, you would be aware that he DID try other channels and got the "we are taking care of it" bullshit that you would expect. He's a computer geek, so he took a decision and went with what he knew how to do. Cowardice is refusal to commit "treason" when those you "betray" are selling you and everyone you love down the river. You might put a lot of labels on what he did and have some validity. Under Imperial law, treason will probably stick, though given the deliberate shackling of the defense they are clearly not as certain of that as you are. You called down Godwin on me before, but even you MUST see the similarity between this and the People's Courts. As for constitutional interpretation belonging solely to the Supreme Court, I think you need a serious history lesson. Lincoln's treasonous war, by the CONSTITUTIONAL definition of treason, settled that secession was dangerous, not that it wasn't the right of the states. His idiotic idea that states that preexisted the union couldn't have been formed without the union shouldn't have ever been given ANY credence. Then again, perhaps the American public has always had a problem with temporal reality... |
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An actual CG render that clearly came from real CAD software? I demand a crappy looking Photoshop like everyone else has  Looks great TerraHash keep it up Yeah it is nice to see, this is definitely a first of sorts LOL I am almost ready to put my full weight and self approval on this project, just a few outstanding questions I wish could be answered.  Namely - Avalon order date and confirmation, facility confirmation from an outside source - if I could check these off the list, I would pre-order in a second. I optimistically hope still, out of KNC, TH, Bitfury and even BFL, TH will be the winner. I give it 50/50 at this point who delivers first between TH and KNC. I think both are likely legit. Go read the entire KnCMiner thread and re-evaluate...they are scammy and untruthful, as PG has been pointing out with some fury. There are holes all over, and all they have show is an FPGA board that they have since abandoned as they came to the table entirely late with it as ASICs come online. Don't give any of these companies your money until they actually show they have something real. Otherwise you deserve what you get for your ignorance. actually been following it the whole time. I will not be preordering anything. I simply cannot afford the risk. Whoever demonstrates working product AND shipping gets my custom. However, I don't think they're scamming, and even PG has conceded that maybe they aren't the scum of the earth. And that boy would question free gold. Not that that is all bad, skeptics are helpful in many ways. |
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