True.  I'm just pointing out that they appear to never have been converted, contrary to some opinions.


I dunno, I don't think it's too appropriate to keep business and personal funds mixed together in the same account in these kind of large amounts.  Maybe you disagree.

I concede that I'm guilty of the same when it comes to my tiny USD-based business.  But I don't hold massive amounts of pre-order funds.  The risk is all mine.

That makes sense.  I'm more talking about the way the announcement itself was written, to avoid any attention on the product, and misdirect attention onto the hosting service, with bold ALL CAPS proclamations that it as THE REAL DEAL, and such.

It may still be a viable service (though it's not for me).  Unfortunately, if you do it, I think you'll be hosting something other than bASICs, since I don't think that bASIC will ever come to exist now.

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

I first paid 93.8326 BTC to 1CpZJF9jwbR3SZmk4i6HaPfp59VPpXAcP5 for my later order #1678 in this transaction:

http://blockchain.info/tx/4cff94125296a7d6e8a86e9ddc7681f2bfd203ea006e0dfa64edc3269a5e936b

A couple hours later the funds get swept into 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa, which seems a main BTCFPGA address.

Much later, my refund paid to 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ gets paid from this same 19Ysiz address.

If you look up MichaelBliss's refund request address, 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW, you will see that a large part of his refund also came from the 19Ysiz address.

Now here's the bad part:

Remember Tom's 500 BTC bet that bASIC would ship in March?


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ah3W7i9L8GMJ:https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D1039.0+http://betsofbitco.in/item%3Fid%3D1138&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

10-Jan 7:51 AM, 500.00 BTC move out of the 19Ysiz account: http://blockchain.info/tx/c290b3d26e5344b0dfc7545b083cc9d28aa607237e11fa7543287841464ee4de

10-Jan 12:06 PM (after some confirmations) Tom announces the 500 BTC bet made with "my Own coin"

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

The statement is not yet available for betting.  Maybe Dave intervened and had BoB not approve the bet and hold the funds or something.  Or maybe BoB staff themselves are watching what's going on and decided to do the same.

I'm kind of embarrassed that I waited as long as I did to request a refund.  I feel like I just *barely* made it out unscathed (aside from missing out on ~20% gain in BTC value).

In retrospect, the hosting plan announcement should have been enough evidence for me to decide to get out.  It said 3 words about the product, and the rest was diversion.

There were many small signs before that too.

Poor Tom.  I hope he comes through this OK.  It sounds like he's in a bad place.

I think the business is lost.  I hope he can keep his family.

A month to ship 300 units?  Why would it take them that long?

I bet all 300 will be shipped within a week.

Wow.  I count myself lucky to have escaped with a refund, paying only the currency depreciation.

https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

I don't know about trusting them to deliver ASICs on time if ever, but I think you can still trust them to give your refund, for now.

They refunded my BTC order, which took a few days.  BTC is of course faster than the CC system.

If I held a CC order at this point, I wouldn't do a chargeback yet.

What about the ~$20m he scammed from his mail fraud victims that was never recovered?  I doubt that's been repaid.

Well I hope so.

The day it's to arrive I plan to take off from work to receive it in case it requires a signature.

Will tracking numbers be shown on the website order status page or be emailed to customers when they ship?

Received it today.  Two payments of 32.2861 BTC, and 122.52 BTC.  At the current mtgox price of $14.24, that's $2204.43.  I'm satisfied.

Thanks Dave and Tom.

I do believe that no more are planned to be produced (or even available to pre-order I think) until after the Chinese New Year.

SR is nothing but a useful distraction.  The real threat is to the established fiat system(s).

Good catch.  He also stutters a bit at that point, while he talked pretty smoothly for the rest of the interview.

I don't think it means much though.  All I see is that he's embarrassed that they have yet to ship any of their products that he personally "honest abe" said they would be shipping in October.

I'd be embarrassed too.

If anything, I think it shows that he is not in fact soulless.

...in a situation where they need a bailout!  Much like another vendor.

I'm getting an uneasy feeling about this.  What if all the ASICs end up in one set of hands?  A set of hands with very deep fiat pockets...

Yes.  Full Custom is another step more difficult still.  On that chart I guess the risk would read "Very high".  Same for the NRE, and probably Development Span too.

Mm hmm.  If you bet on such a statement, consider the risk that BoB may not be around by the time it ends.

If they would begin refunding some orders, it would probably do a lot to restore ppls confidence and stem the tide of requests.  Some may even un-cancel.  Even refunding 5% of the outstanding requests would do something to get the word out.

I suggest they start with mine, #726, #1678, and #1786.  I requested them about an hour before the "new chinese year year" post, so I expect it's one of the earlier ones in the queue (which I hope is a FIFO).

Tom and Dave, if you refund me, I promise I'll post about it here.  kthx.

Edit: So y'all can watch along at home, my refund request address is: 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ  I'm expecting a refund in the amount of $2199.98.

Edit: I do see that Dave emailed me about 3 hours ago asking for clarification.  Replied just now.

BoB staff have not yet approved the statement for betting, so only the submitter (cablepair) can view it, while logged in.

In the meantime:

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1116 - bASIC mining devices will not ship before April 2013
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1128 - bASIC will not ship ASIC products in 2013