I find this thread confusing. Have the developers officially pulled the plug on this one?
Not officially no. I wont hold it against the people though if they think that. Take Zimstake for example. Same thing happened and people have now officially written it off as a disappearing dev. Lets hope the Min dev or PR guy appears again and sets things straight and back on track. Alt coin holders is a strange breed and very edgy due to all the scams going around. The Min concept is brilliant. Only an amateur dev would abandon such a good concept which has so much potential. |
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I wont quote all of that @stronci
With 99/100 coins being scams the edgyness of the holders are fully understandable. All it needs is a confirmation from the dev that all is still on track. Alt coin crypto is a strange place. Many many people have burnt their fingers with disappearing devs. Everyone wants to believe that what you are saying is the case. There is nothing wrong with that and it is not an unreasonable request.
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Is it true that CryptoGir is joining the Raw dev team as per twitter?
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0 (zero) is the number of fucks CG is giving  I can't stop laughing Anyway, BRAVO community, bravo... It was so hard to go to bittrex and buy Zimstake from yourself and sell to yourself until there was enough volume :D:D This is awesome... I guess you will have to sell everything to CG before he gets back... In theory that would have been a great idea. Perhaps people just did not want to throw away more money ad in finitum, until there was just one word of hope from CryptoGir. If he made one positive comment people would have done just what you suggested. No-one wants to throw money into to the toilet. |
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I can't beleive someone sold us down to 37sat. Bad mistake that was. Cheap coinage again! The sell walls holding up though. I'm not selling 1 coin...
It is probably the guy that bought the 1.3m that sold down. |
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So sad.Congrats dev!
If only the dev listened to the advice given right from the start. They are either school children still wet behind the ears, or just hard headed or whatever. The lesson learnt is that you cannot win a race without the right support. They ran out of steam and then tried to get logistics to where they broke down but it seems they cannot get that right either. Maybe they will pull a rabbit out of a hat because the concept of Minerals is brilliant, it just needs strategic management and the right support. |
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When will mining start? Hopefully in a few days time in order for people to prepare. Coins that ninja launch are just scams.
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When will people learn that all ICOs are failures. The only people that score with ICOs are the dev team that in the end will have a bag of BTC and the investors will be bagholders of worthless coins.
ICOs fail because the dev teams do not understand the basic principle that in altcoin crypto 95% of investors are in it for short term profit and do not care about any long term plans. After the initial rise the price dumps and gradually goes down. Secondly, altcoin crypto is not far off from running a business. Once this second principle is understood, a coin will be successful. Most coin devs do not have the experience of running a company and do not understand principles like gearing, R&D, marketing, growth, strategy etc.
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I think things are beyond FUD now - fear, uncertainty and doubt. This is more FCD - fear, certainty and doubt. After 4 months of wasting time on ZS, it is has come to this... in a few days ZS will also be removed from Bittrex unless the avg trading for a week is 0.1 BTC. Unfortunately no-one is going to throw money at something for which the dev has disappeared and there is no future for support. The first rule of crypto and launching a coin is for the dev to support it. What is the difference between ZS and any other coin out there that died? Nothing except for a name, wallet image and a couple of different specs. All this could have been prevented with 1 post for which CG is "too busy" or attending to personal matters. It seems like CG followed his own advice and GTFO. Form all the foundations you want because a foundation will not prevent a Bittrex de-listing. To get de-listed is easy but to get re-listed afterwards is near to impossible. I am afraid it is too late, unless there is some miracle that suddenly sparks so much interest that it spikes up the trading volume to increase the avg for a week over 0.1 BTC. You wont find an investor that will throw away his money like that unless he is really rich or feels philanthropic. I am done throwing money at a coin for which the dev does not care. Admit, chances are very low for a horse to catch up when it is lying down, two laps behind and the rest of the pack is almost at the finish line.
Nothing that I said in this post is not true that cannot be substantiated by the dev's attitude/non-action or evidence from other coins that went the same way. Nice talk, wearing gloves, rather sending a PM all those diplomatic methods don't work with the dev. I hate typing these words, I really hate it, but hopefully these harsh words and posts can get him off his jack to support his coin. Only the dev can prove it is not true through action in the last few days but it will require a real miracle. Fortunately life goes on and there are many other coins to chose from - there are just not many which looks promising and in-between there is a gem like ZS where the dev kills the coin. Silly.
Can you think of such a miracle that could happen? Can anyone see a miracle happen before 22 Aug? If such a miracle can happen, I will gladly delete these posts.
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All good and well, except your argument is fundamentally flawed. Let me compare it to a company again. Investors and shareholders buy shares or invest because they do not have the time/appetite/skill/"fill in reason here" for running the company, otherwise they would have started their own company. That is why shareholders hold the management of company accountable for protecting and growing their investment. The day that shareholders have to take over a company means that the management team has failed in the duty and it is time for business rescue. If management of a company does their job a company will flourish. If a dev does his job a coin will flourish - whether it is through creating and managing a foundation, doing stuff behind the scenes, implementing new features or whatever. Don't come with the poor dev is "innocent" argument because it does not fly.
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How does the enemy sink your big and strong warship?
They don't have to, because the captain opened the underwater portals of his own ship and then placed some explosives on the hull to blow big holes, after which he jumped on a life raft to get away and disappeared in the mist.
The captain of this coin scuttled his own ship.
Enough of metaphors. CryptoGir killed his own coin. That is the one risk in crypto for which there is no mitigation - if the dev pulls the plug and disappears. The first time the community could understand that there was no time/urgency/personal matters to not make a post, but doing the same thing twice after he saw the impact of his first silence? A single post to say guys I will be gone for a month or whatever would have sufficed. Not even that courtesy which in itself speaks volumes of his character.
Who does CryptoGir think he is? Remember to stay away from anything that he does in future. The community has been supporting him for 4 months now and stayed loyal, just to be stabbed in the back. Any other dev that portrayed this arrogance would have been crucified a long time ago, but everyone said it is ok for this reason or that. ZS could have been his ticket to a bright future for him and his family.
There is much to be said for personal life issues that takes precedence over business, but the hard facts of business as in real life is that shareholders of a company will have limited compassion for personal issues of the management team. Life goes on and business must continue. The biggest thing to remember is that it is not Monopoly money that investors put into ZS, but real life money (although converted to BTC). Yes, blah-di-dont-invest-what-you-cannot-lose-blah but there could also be investors that also have personal issues now because they lost money. CG therefore has a responsibility towards the investors to go out of his way to protect their investment irrespective of personal life issues, else do not start a coin. Disappearing and letting the ship sink is no different from the scammers out there that scam people for their money, just in this case it is not stealing money, but blowing holes in the ship and then watching the ship go down with the people in it. I thought he had some integrity but even this lighthouse in the dark world of crypto has gone down. There is little hope for altoin crypto with the complete and utter lack of accountability all round, ZS included. The more these type of actions or lack thereof is committed, another nail is driven in the coffin of crypto and the more investor confidence is moving away from crypto. One of a handful of light beacons with a "trustworthy" dev has gone down.
Maybe a miraculous post will appear again after a scolding like this like the previous time but I doubt it.
RIP ZS.
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I also think he will return, but cant WE the community do something while we are here?!?
There is. The single biggest thing the community can do at this point is to trade in ZS on Bittrex so that volume is at least 0.1 BTC on average. This is to prevent a de-listing on Bittrex. This can be achieved even if you just buy and sell into your own orders. This can be compared to putting a patient on life support in ICU until the patient wakes up out of a coma and can breath on his own again. |
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If the devs are working on anon they are doing the right thing atm. Hopefully it is not too late and a new floor and interest will be created once anon lands. Anon just needs to ensure that volume stays above 0.1 BTC avg. Volumes should go up shortly after to prevent a delisting and then the devs can take their time on delivering a proper Betting v2.0. If it is not too late, then the future for Min will be bright.
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I want to buy more, just worried that soon it will be delisted with such low volume
As long as the volume stays on 0.1BTC avg the coin is safe from delisting. |
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You clearly don't get it do you. You are obviously have no knowledge about economics or business economics and obviously never had to run a company while doing R&D. To give you a hint - you are saying that the profits of the product after R&D is finished will make sure that the company runs and don't close doors while you are still doing R&D and building the product. Do you get it now or do I have to type it slower? Do you realize that the betting services alone of Minerals is not strong enough to make the coin survive until it is finished and adopted by the wider public? Alternative means of creating demand and volume is urgently required to prevent the coin from dying before the betting services can be rolled out and adopted. Shame on you as you obviously want the coin which has an excellent product and future to die prematurely.
Oh sure, I clearly "are have no knowledge" about econ. Although I have enough IQ points left to see that adding anon to the coin as a means of creating demand is no improvement whatsoever - do I have to explain this to you or does your attention span reach enough beyond trolling BCT threads and Bittrex price charts to realize that the vast majority altcoins have some form of anon too, and so there will be precisely 0 added demand for this coin? Sure, it'll be used as an excuse for another quick PnD, I'll give you that. Your little R&D analogy is nice and all except for the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever. Profit? What profit? The dev's profit? You can't equate a cryptocurrency to a company. A company exists to make profit. A currency does not; it is a means of exchange. Why do I even have to explain this? And you're the one telling me I know nothing? The dev is not living off Minerals to survive. Thus he has much more leeway (= your precious R&D) than a company does. Again, what is really killing this coin is disillusioned people who were hoping to make a quick profit and instead actually have to wait a bit (OMG WTF OH NOES MUH $$$) because setting up a coin with a proper purpose takes time and effort. Let me not explain this further to because you can get the theory from university and practice from a real company. The principleas o a company can be applied here. Luckily I have real life on my side supporting my argument. This is evident in what is happening with Min in front of everyone's eyes. What will happen over the next few weeks will further support my argument. If something is not happening as planned, change is needed and a new strategy. But that is again something from real life that you will probably also not understand. Let me leave it at that. |
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Stafur, out of interest, what is the effect of the auto transactions on the size of the blockchain?
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MIN @500 sat ?  1)Can dev updates And put this ***** anon who every body wants ? 2) Can stupid shit noob traders stop dumping great coins for put volume in shit scams People complaining about price are a PLAGUE. Their obsession with fluctuations is nothing more than a thinly veiled, shallow opportunism that has been pervading and degrading this part of the forum for months now. Why don't you just STFU if you have nothing of use to add to the discussion, all of you? Your shitty complaints will do nothing. If you're looking for quick PnD profits (or losses, more likely) you've come to the wrong place. I'm so sick and tired of your badly written whining that eternally comes down to "MUH $$$". Shame on you. To the devs: good job so far. You've made something with a real purpose, and real potential. Take all the time you need. Believe it or not some of us do really believe in you. You clearly don't get it do you. You are obviously have no knowledge about economics or business economics and obviously never had to run a company while doing R&D. To give you a hint - you are saying that the profits of the product after R&D is finished will make sure that the company runs and don't close doors while you are still doing R&D and building the product. Do you get it now or do I have to type it slower? Do you realize that the betting services alone of Minerals is not strong enough to make the coin survive until it is finished and adopted by the wider public? Alternative means of creating demand and volume is urgently required to prevent the coin from dying before the betting services can be rolled out and adopted. Shame on you as you obviously want the coin which has an excellent product and future to die prematurely. |
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I considered QBK long and hard but then decided against it for the following reasons:
How things will probably go based on alt-coin history so far:
1. Roadmap mentions merchant adoption which is what every coin so far tried to achieve. Even BTC is struggling with that and merchant adoption to create demand will take many months/years to achieve. After QBK there will be many other coins launched with the same goal. Apart from possible benefits from the u-ci plans I could not see any plausible real life use for QBK that will create demand and this is long term.
2. ICO is a no-no. All ICO coins so far have failed. How will the ICO host in anyways really know what the withdrawals are used for? Apologies if I am skeptic. If you want a coin to succeed you need to have enough real life funding to do it and have a company capitalised with enough funds so that you do not need investor funds to do it. Having said this there are exceptions though like Kickstarter where something tangible or useful have been created but with specific characteristics. In RL using investor funds in companies are regulated and needs to comply with certain criteria and conditions - including venture capital companies.
3. 20k sats ICO. Really??
4. All coins except for a few follow the same price and volume graphs - Initial pump up and after the first rise a dump and gradual decline over a number of weeks/months to eventual low price and low volume followed by a de-listing. What will make QBK different?
5. At the initial pump the ICO purchasers will dump at their respective risk thresholds - some at 5% some at 10-20%%, some will try their luck for 50% and when the bell rings big dumping back to 20k or lower.
6. 95%+ of crypto people are just there for the quick profits. Very few are in it for the long term. The ratio for ICO purchasers will probably be the same, meaning that after the initial dump there will be no interest left and they will move on to the next coin launch.
7. After the initial dump there will be bag holders that at least will earn BTC. BUT unless you have a plan to fund that for at least 1 year, you will run out of funds to pay the BTC.
8. There will be daily moaning on the ANN thread about when is the next innovation, what is going on FUDding will be rife in the backdrop of pice and volume decrease. The downward trend will continue unless you can find another way of creating demand and keeping people interested. However unless there is something big that creates a lot of volatility the initial profit takers will not return and you will have to work with the remaining bagholders to achieve your objectives. The key will be to keep interest, momentum and demand until you can achieve something with merchant adoption or u-ci.
9. POS coins have a dismal track record so far.
On the plus side:
1. If you are as dynamic as you say you are and if want QBK to be successful you need to address the above points. All coins except maybe one or two have failed to achieve that.
2. Women rights is a hot topic currently. So if people are into that then support something run by women.
3. Accounts mentioned to be involved are at least not raw newbie accounts.
The above sounds skeptical but 20k is too high in my view for an ICO. Maybe there is some BTC to make on the first rise. Hopefully you can prove me wrong.
It is because 95% of people in crypto are after the quick profits. They don't care about monthly dividends or long term plans. They are in it for the quick rise and sell at the top. In this case there was not even a rise so they just cut their losses and move on. The monthly dividends in the case of QBK will have to beat the opportunity cost of the investment as well as the investors cost of capital. With opportunity cost I mean the money that the investment could have made had it been invested elsewhere for the same period instead of being tied up in QBK for a month until dividends are received and with cost of capital I mean what it is costing the investor to put the money into the investment e.g. if he borrowed the money together with his risk appetite. In the case of crypto the opportunity cost of one month is the profits of pump and dumping new coins over and over for a month which can be significant. Taking a loss by quickly selling something that did not immediately rise is ok for those investors because the opportunity cost of those investment as explained will make up for the losses and still leave them in a profit situation by the end of the month. It will be the bag holders that lose at the end of the month. This explains why some of the investors stepped out quickly again. Unfortunately if 95% of the investors expect a rise, the opposite will happen, unless there is a benefactor investor that will take one for the team and start a pump.
In the absence of a pump the value has to rely on the long term plans which will take some time to materialise. In the meantime there will be very little to support the value, unless the dividends are significant enough and in excess of the opportunity cost as explained above. That is why I say that the company had to be very well capitalised before starting this to fund the returns until the long term services income can kick in. The other option is to use the investor ICO funds to pay for the returns but that will be cannibalising the fund and not sustainable which is very ponzi like and will not go down well all round and is also illegal in RL.
Looking at it from another angle, assuming the price remains constant in the absence of value drivers other than hype and dividends, if you want a positive NPV you have to take the 20k sat outlay in year0 and match that with the monthly dividends over the investor's cost of capital. Cryptoworld carries a lot of risk and therefore cost of capital will be high. So either the dividends have to be high or the 20k sats initial outlay had to be lowered. Alternatively, find a magic bullet that will increase the price other than the dividends and hype and there will be a recovery later on that could push the NPV positive.
WTF with price huge drop on poloniex What's wrong ? This. As posted earlier in the thread. The devs need to pull a rabbit out of a hat to turn it around which they have to address asap. For the sake of the investors I hope they do and prove everyone wrong and protect the investors' money. This is exactly why ICO/IPO in RL are protected by regulation and all sorts of hoops that a company has to jump through. |
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It does not seem that the betting developments are strong enough to take the Min price up significantly on its own steam, because the world does not yet realise that they want the functionality. After marketing, several successful tournaments etc. the world will realise that and start to get into Min to the later of Q4 2014 and Q1 2015. Until then it will be low prices and low volumes, unless some other way not linked to the main purpose of Min can be found to generate the demand, interest, volume and price. Looking at he market this feature currently seems like anon. If the devs had implemented anon earlier Minerals would have been trading safely > 10k providing a safe and stable environment for all their dev work. It seems though that they prefer to work in an unstable environment <1000 sats with where the community keeps whining. It is not too late though. It depends if everyone is ok that with the low prices and volume as well as accepting the associated risk with that, then the dev team must continue as is. If the community wants a higher floor with more volume, then anon needs to be implemented without delay.
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I still think there's plenty of life in Minerals
If we can get a net type of anon, value and volume can multiply easily I agreed It has been requested many many times. |
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