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You must be crazy. There is no assurance that as people learn about bitcoin they will actually start using it. For many people bitcoins are just too hard to use. It seems like there are plenty of people who get all gung-ho for a little bit, but then they get bored and leave bitcoins behind. Bitcoins are inflating at over 10% a year right now, clearly the price is going to go down in the short term.
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Your fractions are backwards to how fractional reserve banking is done today. In your example, you only lend out a fraction of what you have in deposits. In common practice today, banks only take in a fraction in deposits of what they actually lend out. Banks lend out a fraction of what they have in deposits, but because when these loans get spent they are deposited back into a bank, the system as a whole ends up having more debt money than base money. If banks are allowed to loan out 90% of their deposits, the banking system will end up with a 10:1 ratio of loans to currency. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=163423To elaborate on this, I take in deposit of 1000 btc. I then lend 900 btc to Al so he can buy a boat from Bob. Bob then deposits the 900 btc into my bank, so I now have 1900 deposits and 900 loans, and 1000 on hand. So now I can lend out another 810 btc to Cal who wants a boat too, he sends the BTC to Bob who deposits it in his account. Now I have 2710 in deposits, 1710 in loans and 1000 btc on hand. This cycle repeats until I get up to about 10000 btc in deposits, and I still have the same 1000 btc as my reserve, with 9000 btc loaned out. I take in deposits of 1000 bitcoins, and I lend out 900 of them, leaving a reserve of 1 tenth. Hey look, that's a fraction that I am keeping as reserve!
Your fractions are backwards to how fractional reserve banking is done today. In your example, you only lend out a fraction of what you have in deposits. In common practice today, banks only take in a fraction in deposits of what they actually lend out. Does it matter which order they happen in? Obviously you can't send somebody bitcoins you do not have yet, but once you lend them out they can circle back to you through the economy and you can lend them out again, so either way you can end up with the same fractional reserve arrangement. |
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I didn't vote in the poll because there wasn't an option for "Yes, but with very different results than in the fiat world". As far as countryfree's comment that you could still get a mortage with bitcoin banks - yes, this is probably true. But forget about the 3% interest rates that you're seeing today (at least in the states), or even 5%. It'd probably be at least 15%.
Would credit be possible with bitcoin? Yes, but it'd be more difficult, and therefore likely much more expensive in terms of interest rates.
But why would it be more expensive? Bitcoin's nature is deflationary (after the initial inflation period), so it would make sense for bitcoin denominated interest rates to be lower than fiat rates, because the interest rate does not have to overcome the inflation rate. Because there's probably no such thing as fractional reserve banking with bitcoin, unlike fiat currencies. So this means that even though bitcoin is deflationary, banks cannot lend out 90% of their bitcoin deposits like they can with dollars and expect to remain solvent. I suppose it's possible that bitcoin's deflationary nature would counteract this if it's a high enough amount of deflation, it really remains to be seen. Have you read this thread? Yes, fractional reserve lending is possible with bitcoins. I take in deposits of 1000 bitcoins, and I lend out 900 of them, leaving a reserve of 1 tenth. Hey look, that's a fraction that I am keeping as reserve! Why is this so hard for people to grasp? There is nothing about bitcoin that stops fractional reserve lending. Now, as long as I can manage things so that depositors are not withdrawing more than the 100 bitcoins I have left, I can remain perfectly solvent. As has been mentioned, you can do things like certificates of deposit, where people agree not to make withdrawals within the time period so they can get the desired interest rate. |
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I didn't vote in the poll because there wasn't an option for "Yes, but with very different results than in the fiat world". As far as countryfree's comment that you could still get a mortage with bitcoin banks - yes, this is probably true. But forget about the 3% interest rates that you're seeing today (at least in the states), or even 5%. It'd probably be at least 15%.
Would credit be possible with bitcoin? Yes, but it'd be more difficult, and therefore likely much more expensive in terms of interest rates.
But why would it be more expensive? Bitcoin's nature is deflationary (after the initial inflation period), so it would make sense for bitcoin denominated interest rates to be lower than fiat rates, because the interest rate does not have to overcome the inflation rate. a deflationary nature implies a high real rate of interest Depends on how strong the deflation is. If we are deflating at 1%, then anything with a real rate of return over 1% will still give a positive nominal return rate. Contrast this to inflating currencies: If you are only inflating at 1%, then something with a real loss of 0.5% will still give a positive nominal return rate. |
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I didn't vote in the poll because there wasn't an option for "Yes, but with very different results than in the fiat world". As far as countryfree's comment that you could still get a mortage with bitcoin banks - yes, this is probably true. But forget about the 3% interest rates that you're seeing today (at least in the states), or even 5%. It'd probably be at least 15%.
Would credit be possible with bitcoin? Yes, but it'd be more difficult, and therefore likely much more expensive in terms of interest rates.
But why would it be more expensive? Bitcoin's nature is deflationary (after the initial inflation period), so it would make sense for bitcoin denominated interest rates to be lower than fiat rates, because the interest rate does not have to overcome the inflation rate. |
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So did the IPO sell out already?
Has anybody started a pass-through for this yet?
It's not sold out yet. People have been putting bids in since the asset became available, there was one share sale Tues (something like 15%), and another today (about 70%). The last one will be Monday the 10th. Oh, I see. I noted that there was no ask, so I thought it was all sold already. Seems to be going pretty fast. |
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This is not surprising. The current administration is setting a record for the number of FOIA requests denied, even for simple things.
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So did the IPO sell out already?
Has anybody started a pass-through for this yet?
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I sometimes add a space to help make the number more readable. Like the price for a share of S.MPOE is something like 0.00072828 bitcoins, you could write that as 0.000 728 28 to make it more readable. The problem with that is the space makes it hard to know where the number ends. An alternative would be to use ` (on my keyboard it is on the same key as the tilde, ~, but I never use it for anything), so the price would be 0.000`728`28 which is also more readable than having no separators. What is that mark even called?
If you want to have lots of precision in your database or whatever, you could write numbers like 11`258`124.000`999`94 using the tick mark before and after the decimal separator.
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Great idea, I didn't realize we had a group like this in our community. I would like to make a donation, is this group still active? I have also persuaded The Fessler Foundation to begin accepting bitcoin donations. The Fessler Foundation funds research in new treatments and technology for individuals with spinal cord injuries. More info here: Bitcointalk Forum PostAm I the only one who missed this post? Rassah, this looks to me like a very good candidate that's already met the requirements. In the words of an awesome scientist, Great scott! How the heck did we miss this? I guess I'll have $3,000 to send out tonight. I just hope bitcoins don't crash in value too much. I guess this is another example of why we need to organize this on a website. I'm thinking a spreadsheet type thing, with the columns containing: 1 - Name of company 2 - URL to company site/contact info 3 - whether it was reviewed (accepted/denied) 4 - whether it was contacted and the result (contacted, they accepted and were paid, they rejected) You could also include on the website a list of suggested organizations which accept bitcoin but were not given the official Bitcoin 100 donation, that way people who want to donate to those organizations can do on their own. Is there a complete list of all the organizations so we can go back and give extra donations to the ones we like? |
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It is OK, gets the job done but does not excel.
I wish the webpage held more information all on the same page, I keep having to click between links to check what is going on. Also, I find the webpage to be really slow, so it is frustrating to get anything done. Also, the homepage has this giant obnoxious moving splash thing, which has the same "news" every time you load the site; the homepage should instead have useful information, like the current price.
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I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.
If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?
A better question is why wouldn't it be legal? Do you have to ask for permission for everything, or are you a free person? |
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Sorry about necroing this thread but I've spoken to the OP and he's shown me a photo and said he personally knows the guy in the black overall in the middle of this photo: http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/the-stuff-all-good-conspiracy-theories-start-with/WTF is this about you ask? Well, it looks like the OP is at a dinner party with the enterpreneur Wences Casares. So in real life, he happens to know this Wences guy, and in ROTA he then allows someone named Wences (of all names!) to be the plaintiff in the first (and what seems like last) BTC trial? LOL? The trial was long before that dinner took place (full disclosure: I was there, too). And you clearly have much to learn if you really think lawsuits make mortal enemies or something. I think that he was trying to go the other way with this conspiracy theory: Since they are friends, the only reason the case was brought before the Rota was because MP wanted it so, the whole thing was a made up excuse to hold the trial and get publicity for MP's little Rota experiment? |
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The alternative to fractional reserve lending is zero-reserve lending.
What if the bank became a facilitator for crowd-funding? There could be a list where people could put their requests for loans with all of the pertinent information one might need to invest. Then anyone interested in putting their money to work could browse this list and invest a little money in whichever projects he chooses, obviously for much better returns than a CD or savings account, but with added risk. There could be a professional "underwriter" working for the bank that gives his own assessment of the risk. Each bank would then be competing with other banks so the better job they do at underwriting, the more customers they get. The bank could also act as the enforcer, collecting collateral and go after deadbeats who do not want to pay back what they promised.
Have a look at BitFunder and BTCJAM and bitfinex for ways people are trying to do this right now. There is fractional reserve banking, and there is zero-reserve banking, but you left out one option: full reserve banking. In full-reserve banking the deposits have an equal amount on reserve, any lending is done from the capital of the bank (as you suggested, the investors in the bank are funding the loans, check out the IBB (Islamic Bank of Bitcoin) for an example of this). For example, MtGox could be considered full-reserve banking (if what they tell us is true), any bitcoins listed in the customer accounts has an equivalent amount of real bitcoins in the MtGox wallet. |
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Well of course its possible. I could lend you some of my (meagre) coin and charge you interest on the loan.
But more profitable if I set up a "bank", take deposits in BTC (which I transfer to MY wallet), offer silly rates of interest to attract the punters, and (optionally) lend out some of those deposits to my credit customers. Classic ponzi scheme (just like the fractional reserve banking described upthread, that seems to be accepted as perfectly legit in the banking world.) I'm surprised nobody's already tried it (perhaps they have, I'm new on here so does anyone know?)
Look through the forum for pirateat40, Patrick Harnett, Kludge, and Dank. This has been tried already. |
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So, I took a look, and here are my thoughts:
- Why is the whole site stuck on the left of the screen? Either center it or better yet make it fill horizontally. This is not the 1990's, websites should look nice.
- Obviously you have another account here, who are you?
- You expect us to invest money on your platform, you need to tell us more about you. The "about us" tab has nothing.
- The scrolling ticker with no information is obnoxious. Find a better way to display that information.
- Companies listed: They need much, much more information. The information given is even less than was typical for GLBSE.
- I see a bunch of places it looks like bitcoin amounts are rounded to 4 decimal places. Are prices capable of going to 8 decimal places?
- Who are you exactly?
- What sort of security do you have in place?
- What benefits do you offer to investors over other platforms (mpex, bitfunder, btct)?
- What benefits do you offer to issuers over other platforms (mpex, bitfunder, btct)?
- You "guidlines to be a trader" is a link to a document? Why not just have a page on the website? I feel like there should be more detail in there.
- Who are you and why should we trust you?
I will probably think of more questions later.
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Someone please explain to me how it helps bitcoin  Bitcoins have limits. There is a limit on the number of transactions in each block, and there is a limit in how frequently money can be moved (because you have to wait for confirmations). If some of the transactions are moved to Ripple, where there are no limits on number of transaction and confirmation is almost instantaneous, then the total size of the bitcoin+ripple economy can be much larger than by just using bitcoins. |
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Bump to get more answers to poll.
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I am in need of 0.05 BTC +, how to earn?
Where do you live? Maybe a bitcoiner near you could hire you for some task? |
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wait why do you need accounts? what are you doing with them?
I would ask the same thing. It's not identity theft; it's identity switch. But in some ways it amounts to the same thing. What's up with this? It makes me totally ignore who I am reading or talking to because I have no trust in the continuity of the person's identity. It's okay to do this, but not okay to post a link to thesilkrdotcom. Scratch my head. Go figure. People will make GPG accounts and sign messages that really need proven authenticy. For example here is my GPG sig: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=wachtwoordI still don't get it. What is a GPG account? A public/private cryptography pair. If you want to understand bitcoins, you should really first understand cryptography. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography |
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