Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[rosatambo]

Sorry, late to the thread, but the thing I don't understand is how credit cards could be legally used for deposits?  As far as I recall, you can put a hold on a card, but not actually charge a card until you ship or deliver the goods or service.

And if I was in the order queue, I'd stay there. Bitching for refunds now is a little on the late side.

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[smoothie]

The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.

You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer.  I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second.  Just one second.  How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units?  Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out?  Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units?  Are you really this stupid?

This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.

Take notes people ^

1. Doesn't answer questions (cherry picks)

2. Tries to take the high road of making the poster he speaks of as not using their brain.

3. Deflects from main points about delays and focuses on irrelevant point about benches used to assemble units.

4. Asks the user if they are really that stupid.

5. Because he doesn't like one itty bitty thing about the poster's past he will disqualify ever giving any answers to any questions.

6. Calls the questions asked as "ASININE".

7. That is the way to justify not answering questions. ^

[charleshoskinson]

Take notes people ^

1. Doesn't answer questions (cherry picks)

2. Tries to take the high road of making the poster he speaks of as not using their brain.

3. Deflects from main points about delays and focuses on irrelevant point about benches used to assemble units.

4. Asks the user if they are really that stupid.

5. Because he doesn't like one itty bitty thing about the poster's past he will disqualify ever giving any answers to any questions.

6. Calls the questions asked as "ASININE".

7. That is the way to justify not answering questions. ^

I for one am excited either I get a BFL product or Josh goes to jail. It's a win/win for me.

[MooC Tals]

This is why you're a joke, Mooc.  You keep posting the same shit over and over.  Everyone already knows it, no one cares.

I'm sorry I hurt your widdle feewings by pointing out the fact that you're too stupid to realize that we didn't need new benches to be able to to assemble our units and could use the old ones. I figured any 6 year old child would be able to figure that out, I had no idea you didn't have the cognitive capacity of a pre-schooler.

I'm not going to engage like I did in my previous posts. It was childish and I was probably a bit upset that you keep avoiding my question so now I post this information for your customers. You pay good money for advertising! and I'm sure you need as much of it as possible.

What did you tell Justin Porter on Nov 6, 2012 at Bitcoin Magazine? Did you tell him that you were going to start delivering as soon? or were you just allowing him to say that so your adverts would scoop new pre-orders for your company knowing that you had nothing but a heat sink to show for? Surely you must of corrected him then.

Then you talk to Bitcoin magazine on Oct 19, 2012.  He was under the assumption then that it was set for late Nov to Dec and was insinuating that the wait was not much longer. I believe I have his quote here.

"with the November/December ship date rapidly approaching, eager customers and those watching from the sidelines do not have very much longer to wait."

How much longer would I have to wait Josh? 

DID YOU LIE ABOUT SHIPPING IN NOV?

WHAT WERE YOU SHIPPING IN NOV?

Just answer my question. You might fool me into pre-ordering again. You know, Me being not so bright.

[yxt]

This is why you're a joke, Mooc.  You keep posting the same shit over and over.  Everyone already knows it, no one cares.

I'm sorry I hurt your widdle feewings by pointing out the fact that you're too stupid to realize that we didn't need new benches to be able to to assemble our units and could use the old ones. I figured any 6 year old child would be able to figure that out, I had no idea you didn't have the cognitive capacity of a pre-schooler.

shut up and pay the charity bet!

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".

Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:


    tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
    recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they are exposed to training for that skill.

I guess that bfl has massive cash flow problems.
Strongly recommend a refund

[charleshoskinson]

Just answer my question. You might fool me into pre-ordering again. You know, Me being not so bright.

Mooc Josh is in way too deep. He can't legally answer any of your or my questions. If they fail to deliver but continue to take preorders, then we will file a class action lawsuit followed by a criminal complaint to the relevant authorities. Contrary to Josh's meager understanding, it is illegal to accept almost $100,000 dollars in preorders for minirigs when the company has evidence that the sales claims cannot be true. It is consumer fraud. And before Josh you say false, Cloudhashing has claimed they preordered the minirigs. Either you are lying or they are.  

Cloudhashing's Proof of Purchase
https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink#5866587391835308050

Note the last date of purchase in April. BFL had already received their ASICs and verified the power consumption was too high to scale to the minirig. Therefore, they knowingly took money for a product that did not exist pending R&D.

Def of Consumer Fraud:
Deceptive practices that result in financial or other losses for consumers in the course of seemingly legitimate business transactions.

Seems pretty clear here. Cloudhashing was never told about the R&D risks or given a rough delivery date. The bitcoin preorder option was another example of consumer fraud. We in the community have a reasonable expectation due to the deflationary nature of bitcoin the price will increase over time. To accept bitcoins for preordered goods last year and then not deliver for months on end without refunding the appreciation of the bitcoins at time of delivery is beyond reproach. Some people paid over 3,000 dollars for their 5 GH/s units.  

[CoinJay]

I am a journalist writing for coindesk.com, and I have tried contacting BFL several times with no response. I have been watching this thread, and we are interested in putting together an article about it, particularly around their customer service and attitude on this thread. I am interested in hearing both from BFL representatives, but also from people who can provide evidence that they have logged pre-orders with the company (including dates). Please contact me, using the address danny@itjournalist.com.

[DanBUK]

I pre-ordered in April 2013, after reading a fair bit about ButterFly Labs.

And I think they will deliver. I just hope that they don't push delivery back and back.

There is no point whinging about it, if you don't want to wait. Get a refund from BFL. As my reading of their forums goes people have got refunds without issue.

[charleshoskinson]

If you preordered in bitcoins last year, then bfl will not refund the full amount just the market value of bitcoins as of today. That means some people have lost thousands of dollars.

[philivey]

This is why you're a joke, Mooc.  You keep posting the same shit over and over.  Everyone already knows it, no one cares.

I'm sorry I hurt your widdle feewings by pointing out the fact that you're too stupid to realize that we didn't need new benches to be able to to assemble our units and could use the old ones. I figured any 6 year old child would be able to figure that out, I had no idea you didn't have the cognitive capacity of a pre-schooler.

Haha, as the saying here in my mother country goes: Sounds like someone got up from the bed on the wrong side this morning... Time to turn that frown upside down 

[MooC Tals]

I am a journalist writing for coindesk.com, and I have tried contacting BFL several times with no response. I have been watching this thread, and we are interested in putting together an article about it, particularly around their customer service and attitude on this thread. I am interested in hearing both from BFL representatives, but also from people who can provide evidence that they have logged pre-orders with the company (including dates). Please contact me, using the address danny@itjournalist.com.

I have all my pre-orders logged in Paypal. I have all the relevant information and as DanBUK has mentioned refunds are not a problem it's how the scam works. They perpetually accept new pre-orders in as refunds are issued. This is done by deceitful adverts that claim shipping will soon start. As delays naturally continue the pre-order's become impatient and turn in to a refund.

They later come out with new pictures and adverts claiming shipping is close and a fresh new bunch of unsuspecting customers pour in. The cycle begins again.

I do not have my old emails confirming the correspondence of the order however my PayPal records show everything. I also do have an email copy of me asking for a refund if a confirmed date of shipping was not supplied.

Yes I received a quick reply and refund. However that is not what I'm upset about.

There are others that have seen along with me the constant changing of the estimated shipping dates on the website every month.

[CoinJay]

Thanks, have PM'd you.

[wrenchmonkey]

I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...

You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer.  I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second.  Just one second.  How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units?  Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out?  Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units?  Are you really this stupid?

This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.

Yea...  'courtesy'.....  

Answering the same retarded questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, until the next idiot comes up with an even STUPIDER question, for them to answer over, and over, and over...

Yeah, that's a courtesy. And the responses are usually given in the same spirit as the 'questions' are posed. If you act like an asshole, the response is probably going to be given in a similar spirit. If you ask stupid, ignorant questions, expect to be treated like a stupid, ignorant person.

If it was just 1-2 idiots, I'm sure the responses might be more patient. But this forum has HOARDS of veritable idiots who continuously nag, and whine, and generally ramp up the derp to unbelievable levels.

[AzureEngineer]

BFL is many times more incompetent than any single person on this forum (who isn't BFL related).

[Supercoin]

They are shipping right now, aren't they?

[philivey]

They are shipping right now, aren't they?

Expected to ship "the week of" the week that is 2 weeks from now 

[madchance]

I got refunded... will probably reorder if they ever get through their backlog, it there isn't anything better available on the market at that point

[Portnoy]

I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...

You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer.  I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second.  Just one second.  How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units?  Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out?  Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units?  Are you really this stupid?

This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.

Yea...  'courtesy'.....  

Answering the same retarded questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, until the next idiot comes up with an even STUPIDER question, for them to answer over, and over, and over...

It's called Public Relations and many businesses seem to handle the challenge without much problem.  

The fact that BFL would put an offensive creep like Inaba out front to represent their company is enough in itself to make me avoid ever doing business with them.
All the lies and other irregularities just cements that decision.
  
  

[Sk1llS]

At first I wasn't certain BFL was a scam, but after reading the scam he had going before he was deported, I think it's safe to say they are a bunch of crooks. As the old saying goes, a leopard never changes it's spots.

[BTCoder]

Wow I hate scammers.