Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[redlight]

I knew it all along!

[1714111704]

1714111704

[1714111704]

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[1714111704]

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[reich]

I really did know it the whole time.

[reich]

Its extremly suspicious they dont even give a shipping date.

[InSpades]

It does not matter where the complaint originated from as long as the complaint against BFL has legal merit.  The matter would be dealt with in jurisdiction of Johnson County or at the state level depending on which office moved against the company as BFL has a physical presence here.  If they do not have a registered agent handling their legal matters, then BFL would be served at their physical location.

Place incorporated does not protect the company from legal matters filed against their physical location.  If their registered agent (often a lawyer) is located in a different state than the physical location then the company will have to find legal council in the jurisdiction of the physical location where the legal action was brought forth.

It seem you have a better understand of these procedures. What would happen if multiple unknown individuals served BFL from all over the globe? Would they combine them all in one suit?

I am not sure what would happen then.  You are talking international law, jurisdiction of sovereign nations, and treaties.  Interesting question though.  I guess it would boil down to the laws of the nation the BFL representative and the company itself was operating in at the time of the legal matter in question arose.  I have seen some incidents regarding negligence where the individual and the company were named as co-defendants. 

Combining?  I am only aware of a couple of types of combining. - Enough civil suits are filed on a matter that it is turned into a class action lawsuit (example defective product or product with negative side effects causing the consumers harm.  See them all the time advertised on tv.)  A plaintiff can join an existing lawsuit if there is action for cause and the complaint is identical in nature (Only seen this happen on state versus federal cases.)  The defendant can petition the judge to combine multiple lawsuits into one (Saw Microsoft pull this one off in speculation that company was stalling for time and saving on legal expenses).

In response to jesse11,

I am talking matters of state versus a company regarding consumer and potential criminal; not individual versus company in a civil tort. 

If you as a consumer living in Florida (hypothetically speaking here) decided to sue my company (which is registered and physically located in Kansas) in a Florida courtroom.  More or less you can try and sue.  My attorney would file a motion for a change of venue bringing the case up to Kansas.  Which means you as the individual would be forced to hire new legal council as the majority of law practitioners in Florida are not licensed to practice law in Kansas.  While you are scrambling for another lawyer and the money to hire him, another motion to dismiss would be filed on the grounds that the case was brought forth in a jurisdiction that my company is not registered in, or physically doing business in, or has conducted any business transactions to.  If it sticks you are back to square one having to file all over again.  And to add insult to injury, I'd petition the court to make you pay my company's legal fees for inconveniencing my company.  I can see BFL doing something like this if it got ugly.

So if you want it to stick, you take case to where they reside.  Harder to pull legal trickery that way.  Truth of the matter is most civil tort cases never make it to an actual court room.  I have heard percentages as high as 80 to 85% of all cases never see the light of day.  Most are referred to mediation or are settled our of court so nothing enters public record.  Most settlements are for x amount of cash, court fees with the defendant moving on to conduct business as usual not having to admit guilt.

This is what most likely would happen if an individual sued BFL.  Settlement with the records sealed afterwards.  Even if you sued BFL and managed to drag them in court to air out their dirty laundry, they would just have the records sealed afterwards preventing the plaintiff and prying eyes from disclosing to the public BFLs inner-workings and dirty laundry.  Furthermore a smart lawyer for BFL would ask the judge to place a gag order on the case (most likely on the grounds of trade secrets) so the plaintiff and all other parties in the court room could not say anything to the public during the court case either.

The only state that I am aware of allows you to go after someone regardless of where they are located in the United States is California.  Apparently you can sue anyone there.  Seems there is no requirement on the defendant ever having to be in the state, visited the state, conduct business in the state, or even know that California exists for a lawsuit to go forward there.

[redlight]

We've seen the worst effect of bankerster's greed brought to the world -- trust in financial institutions was lost. 

We are seeing the worst effect Pirate brought upon BTC community ... trust in bitcoin businesses is being destroyed.

I agree with this completly!

[InSpades]

ranlo,

I think the actual number civil lawsuits required to be considered a class action depends on the state where it is being filed.

[jesse11]

InSpades, Read this Post  

This is true ranlo, however this will present significant ethical challenges as Defendants can hold reverse auctions and everybody loses. Only the Lawyers win.

Like I said, Only the Lawyers win.

[daemonfox]

Please understand that I have kept up with the facts and made my decision to pre-order after I waited a good amount of time to collect the data I needed to feel comfortable enough with the risks.

If you really kept up with the facts and did your due diligence, you would find out that the President of Butterfly Labs, Sonny Vleisides, is a felon. He was convicted of running a mail fraud racket that, over six years, stole $20 million from the elderly and naive. These scams went by names like Shamrock Agency, German Swiss Group and World Expert Fund. His business partner at the time, Dennis Emmet, is now in jail for MURDER. He shot a guy IN THE FACE after getting into an argument.

These are facts, not libel. Google his name and read the affidavit. Even if they are legitimately creating a product, look at his past business practices, who he associates himself with, and ask yourself seriously if they are worthy of your hard-earned money. This company has not delivered for a year and is run by a former con artist. Any newbies thinking about pre-ordering need to take this into consideration.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0
http://insidecostarica.com/dailynews/2005/may/01/nac04.htm

Read it before.

Did we impeach Bill Clinton? His immoral choices did not stop us from letting him reside over the most recent economic surplus in US history?

Just sayin'... everyone deserves a chance to show they learned from their mistakes... and if he is operating then SOMEONE in the justice system signed off on it.

[EBM]

How many promised delivery dates does a company have to miss before it's reasonable to infer a scam?

Everyone deserves a second chance, sure. Not sure about dozens.

[JungleBook]

+1

[JungleBook]

No, it's delayed. They say it will only take 2 extra weeks. Something wrong with the flux capacitor or something.

+1

[JungleBook]

I agree on everything.

+1

[MooC Tals]

O Sh*t ! --- what this means is they are still having problems with the proto type and no productions PCB have being ordered

What made you think they were beyond proto ?

Josh 6 May update

"We discovered some issues that we needed to resolve with the boards and had to change a few minor things. We tested them out on a hand modified board and they worked, so we've issued the redesign to the PCB house. The new boards are being finished today, the 6th of May, and should be ready this evening. "


I throught that the new single pcb was just 2 clone old single pcb design with power mode --- because luke-jr has a running old single at about 30 GH ---- we would have being better off if bfl shipped 2 x 30 GH to 60 GH customers instead of a larger PCB ( because this new design has add extra risk and is causing delays)




sorry i am just piss*d off with the latest news--- maybe I should have not posted anything

Like I said before, tweaking to make things perfect. Perfect may never come.

At this rate these units are going to be worthless by the time we receive them.

Just getting tired of all the delays.

This is their forum? They all know they're being lied to. Its almost comical as they throw jokes at it. I can't eat anymore popcorn. I'm sick of popcorn.

[MooC Tals]

No, it's delayed. They say it will only take 2 extra weeks. Something wrong with the flux capacitor or something.

+1

That was funny.

[bitshy]

Gavin Andresen (watch the interview!) says that he fully understands the delays from Butterfly Labs: Hardware is hard. Hardware delays are the norm.

Personally I have no strong opinion on this matter. Just notice that by the time you get these ASIC miners, those Ghashes will no longer be worth what they're worth today. In a way ... hashes suffer inflation while bitcoin suffers deflation. Huh.

[MooC Tals]

Gavin Andresen (watch the interview!) says that he fully understands the delays from Butterfly Labs: Hardware is hard. Hardware delays are the norm.

Personally I have no strong opinion on this matter. Just notice that by the time you get these ASIC miners, those Ghashes will no longer be worth what they're worth today. In a way ... hashes suffer inflation while bitcoin suffers deflation. Huh.

I just started to listen but dam he payed .37btc for a dozen cupcakes? What were they sprinkled with cocaine icing sugar?

0.37btc = 42.00 dollars? wow

[ShowerFarts]

I think he was talking about a paid female companion named Cupcake  
Seriously though, I just recently discovered the wonderful world of crypto-currencies, but was bummed when I discovered I was late to the party and that the ASICs were just around the corner, but I really wanted to start mining. But then I discovered that scrypt based currencies are still profitable to mine with GPUs so i quickly built a rig with 2 7950's to start. I think I will just play the waiting game to see if these ASICS actually materialize, then maybe use some mining proceeds to buy one months down the road, but i'm sure the wait time will still be ridiculous, and by then the difficulty may be too high.

[MooC Tals]

I think he was talking about a paid female companion named Cupcake 

Thanks That clears up everything!

Wow that's cheap then!

[animalxp]

looks like they stopped takin on their facebook facecrap wall too.

[mladen81]

+1