[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[JorgeStolfi]

You cannot do a budget in BTC, to plan for a 10% profit, if the unit of accounting may be worth 100$ when your client prepays, 1200$ when you close a deal with a supplier,  800$ when you pay him, 400$ when you ship the unit, and 600$ when the client returns it for refund.  

Of course it can be done. It cannot be done without hedging yourself and/or taking risk. But it can be done. Dell is selling for BTC. You just need to find the right balance of your BTC and fiat reserves and you have to be prepared to handle the volatility.

Note that "accepting payments in BTC" does not mean "keeping BTC" much less "doing the accounting in BTC".

I am pretty sure that Dell (and 99% of other companies who "accept BTC") do all their accounting in dollars (or the appropriate national currency).  For example, Dell will refund defective products only in dollars, even if you paid in BTC.  Even if some companies keep some of their spare cash reserves invested in BTC, they would account for that investment in thei budgets and audits as they would account any other variable-value investment -- namely, by listing its current market value in dollars.

And in fact most of those established companies that "accept BTC" actually use BitPay or Coinbase, whose main function is to convert the bitcoins into dollars so that the merchant can receive dollars.  Why would them use those services if they really wanted to get BTC?  They could just post the price in BTC and give a blockchain address for payment.  But instead they list the price in dollars, and let the payment processor deal with the conversion.

With few exceptions, the only companies that I know that actually accept payment or investment in bitcoins are startups by bitcoin enthusiasts -- like Trezor, BFL, AMT, Neo & Bee,  ...

[binford]

That pricing is from back when 1 BTC was around $200 $80-$120.

ok, sorry. Didn't want to err on the wrong side.

preorders closed in november so you're right as well

[kkurtmann]

yes November, just around the ath of 1000usd

[btcdemon]

Looks Grate!

looking forward to seeing more information!

[fronti]

yes November, just around the ath of 1000usd

but for 2 or?
There was the offer buy 1 get 2 if i remember..

[molecular]

yes November, just around the ath of 1000usd

but for 2 or?
There was the offer buy 1 get 2 if i remember..

yes, I ordered more then, but remember the price was extreme in $-terms, even for 2.

[weaknesswaran]

yes November, just around the ath of 1000usd

but for 2 or?
There was the offer buy 1 get 2 if i remember..

yes, I ordered more then, but remember the price was extreme in $-terms, even for 2.

Price of 1 BTC was roundabout 200$  on the day of 2 for 1 promotion.

[BurtW]

Safer, read the OP and the web site to find out why.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Safer, read the OP and the web site to find out why.

As a non-tech user it sounds safer but I wanted to hear from people who know more than I do.

wait until it is field tested.

[cor]

Safer, read the OP and the web site to find out why.

As a non-tech user it sounds safer but I wanted to hear from people who know more than I do.

Trezor was designed with these goals
1.  even non-tech users (like me or my mother)
2.  can achieve an ultra-paranoid nerdy level of security,
3.  but actually still worry-free and easy to use.

Proof this has been achieved :
We tested trezor with a girl who hardly knew what IS bitcoin, never saw someone doing a transaction and got no single word of explanation.
Just open the box, run it and when ready I'll send you some coins and you should send them back. And she did it 

For security, you have to ask the ultra-paranoid nerds (or geeks) around here.
Anyway Trezor is using some standards and principles that are being implemented to other wallets yet. But we are patient and looking forward to have most of them compatible with Trezor.

Current wallets have some issues:
web wallets:
operators have to bear a lot of the risk and sometimes fail,
their users compromise on their privacy with providing their emails, passwords..
and give up on their sovereign ownership entrusting their private keys to the 3rd party

desktop wallets
the user has to be quite advanced in order to avoid mistakes with the more secure but elaborate desktop clients,

Trezor eliminates these issues and shifts the perspective, it basically does the heavy security lifting and the wallets can just concentrate on doing the "shopping" (sending/receiving transactions and bringing new additional services. A perfect symbiosis..

[kkurtmann]

that is exactly what I was expecting

[AussieHash]

I've received an email reply from Trezor support that my first edition classic will ship today !

[kkurtmann]

I've received an email reply from Trezor support that my first edition classic will ship today !

This is very good news indeed!

[kkurtmann]

I just got an IOS update for bitWallet, seems it now supports BIP32 hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallets and BIP39 mnemonic sentences.
Does this mean it can be used with trezor?

edit: found the answer few pages back, quote from slush p.74 "To be exact, Trezor needs just BIP32 and BIP39 to be supported by client. BIP44 is needed only if client want to see all accounts, transaction history and balances produced by myTREZOR"

[molecular]

Anyone that has a Trezor, would you feel comfortable using this device for long term storage?  Would you say the Trezor is as safe or safer than using offline Armory or Electrum?

Yes, I use it for long term storage already (one passphrase for long-term, one for everyday usage). Only with a portion of my stash for now (~10%), but I plan to change that to ~50%.

But first I will need to make sure the seed is safe (from loss, mainly). It's only at one location currently, which is not enough. A fire could burn the handwritten word-list and if the trezor breaks or is lost before I can access the funds, they are lost. I also yet have to verify I wrote down the wordlist correctly. I will do that once I receive my plastic trezors (too dangerous to use the single trezor I have now).

I feel my coins are very safe with trezor. Also rationally they are very safe... I've pondered many attacks and the only ones I can see succeeding at all can be carried out by people very close to me. In fact only one person could do that and it would still be very hard and risky to pull off for her. Also: she wouldn't and even if: she doesn't have the technical expertise or even see the possibility.

Comparing to electrum (I don't use armory): I don't consider my coins very safe on electrum. Their security depends on the security of my linux box. Since I use that box for all kinds of stuff, I cannot rule out malicious software sneaking in and loggin my key and stealing my electrum wallet. Trezor is much safer in this regard. Don't get me wrong: I love electrum and trezor support for it is implemented (crudely), so I will most likely keep using it.

[molecular]

Trezor was designed with these goals
1.  even non-tech users (like me or my mother)
2.  can achieve an ultra-paranoid nerdy level of security,
3.  but actually still worry-free and easy to use.

Proof this has been achieved :
We tested trezor with a girl who hardly knew what IS bitcoin, never saw someone doing a transaction and got no single word of explanation.
Just open the box, run it and when ready I'll send you some coins and you should send them back. And she did it  

Sorry to nitpik, but one positive example doesn't constitute proof. ;-)

For security, you have to ask the ultra-paranoid nerds (or geeks) around here.

It's fucking secure as hell and very hard to screw up.

As every so often: the human element is the weakest link: here are some ways a person could possibly screw it up:

• get drunk and demo trezor to others in bar, be observed when entereing PIN (and maybe passphrase) and then let the observer steal the trezor when kissing the hot chick. (If you don't think that's easy, consider the hot chick being the attacker)
• be "smart" and make up your own seed (use restore to put it on device, not sure if easily possible, checksum?): "doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom" should be safe, noones going to guess that, but I can easily remember it. boy I'm smart.
• leave seed paper backup in vacation luggage and have luggage stolen when staying in hostel
• leave seed paper backup in safe and have burglar steal it
• leave seed paper backup in bank deposit box and have government confiscate steal it

This kind of stuff cannot be prevented by satoshilabs directly, but they make every effort to educate the user.

EDIT: for max security I suggest using a passphrase. That makes the latter 3 attacks much harder. Of course, it adds a new (very easy) way to fuck up:

• forget passphrase

[moreia]

how much is this now/going to be...
i see 1BTC pre-order but the OP was posted in 2012...
Very interested in this!

[klokan]

how much is this now/going to be...
i see 1BTC pre-order but the OP was posted in 2012...
Very interested in this!

Almost certainly, it will cost less than the preorder price, i.e., less than 100USD. If everything is still on track for the end-of-July retail, the price will be anounced in next four days.

[dnaleor]

how much is this now/going to be...
i see 1BTC pre-order but the OP was posted in 2012...
Very interested in this!

Almost certainly, it will cost less than the preorder price, i.e., less than 100USD. If everything is still on track for the end-of-July retail, the price will be anounced in next four days.

I'm guessing 50-100 USD. Maybe 100 USD at first because the demand will be huge compared to the size of the first produced batch maybe? Don't know.

[stick]

Is it possible to use Trezor from an android phone?

Not yet. There is a library that allows Android app to communicate with TREZOR here: https://github.com/trezor/trezor-android and BitcoinJ people are working on adding necessary stuff (BIP39, BIP44) to their library so we'll have everything needed to build a TREZOR App for Android.